Hypothetical - Harvard Business School

-worked at one of the largest asset managers for 3 years in London

That's interesting - what did you do / are you doing at the asset manager?

monaco_monkey

-worked at one of the largest asset managers for 3 years in London

That's interesting - what did you do / are you doing at the asset manager?

That's hypotetical...

cruel3a monaco_monkey:

-worked at one of the largest asset managers for 3 years in London

That's interesting - what did you do / are you doing at the asset manager?

That's hypotetical...

lmao :D

im betting that 750 gmat is hypotetical

cruel3a monaco_monkey:

-worked at one of the largest asset managers for 3 years in London

That's interesting - what did you do / are you doing at the asset manager?

That's hypotetical...

lel

monaco_monkey

-worked at one of the largest asset managers for 3 years in London

That's interesting - what did you do / are you doing at the asset manager?

I would be working in the portfolio management group (focus on equities)

animalz cruel3a: monaco_monkey:

-worked at one of the largest asset managers for 3 years in London

That's interesting - what did you do / are you doing at the asset manager?

That's hypotetical...

lmao :D

im betting that 750 gmat is hypotetical

No, I already got the 750

You're way too far ahead of yourself. Life very rarely goes exactly as planned, even when the path forward appears to be crystal clear. The reality is that even if you did achieve this exact profile, we wouldn't be able to give you a good estimate of your candidacy for HBS. All I can say is that the process is a black box and even the most qualified candidates seem to only have a 50% chance of getting in at best (made up statistic).

For what it is worth, if you're currently a junior you have five more years until you apply (junior year, senior year, three years of work experience). Unless you took the GMAT very recently and your stats are "at the time of matriculation," then your GMAT score will have expired after the five year mark.

Does it make sense for me to apply to HBS or are there other schools at which I have better chances?

CompBanker

You're way too far ahead of yourself. Life very rarely goes exactly as planned, even when the path forward appears to be crystal clear. The reality is that even if you did achieve this exact profile, we wouldn't be able to give you a good estimate of your candidacy for HBS. All I can say is that the process is a black box and even the most qualified candidates seem to only have a 50% chance of getting in at best (made up statistic).

For what it is worth, if you're currently a junior you have five more years until you apply (junior year, senior year, three years of work experience). Unless you took the GMAT very recently and your stats are "at the time of matriculation," then your GMAT score will have expired after the five year mark.

Does it make sense for me to apply to HBS or are there other schools at which I have better chances?

Yeah, you have a better chance at pretty much every other MBA program out there, except maybe Stanford. I hope you aren't planning to apply to just one school, particularly if your GMAT is expiring that cycle...

I understand that the progress is a black box. I am more curious about factors which can improve my chances of getting admitted.

I took the GMAT because I had intended to apply for a masters program right out of undergraduate (typical for some countires in the EU). I am not too concerned with achieving a high GMAT score in the future as I have already done very well and I am sure that I will be able to score somewhere around 750.

I am not going to apply to only one school. HBS is the school that I REALLY want to get into (probably everybody would love to go there).

kinghongkong

I understand that the progress is a black box. I am more curious about factors which can improve my chances of getting admitted.

I took the GMAT because I had intended to apply for a masters program right out of undergraduate (typical for some countires in the EU). I am not too concerned with achieving a high GMAT score in the future as I have already done very well and I am sure that I will be able to score somewhere around 750.

I am not going to apply to only one school. HBS is the school that I REALLY want to get into (probably everybody would love to go there).

Fair, but I think you're going about it wrong. Getting into HBS isn't the end goal and you shouldn't be building your life in the manor that will be most attractive to b-school adcom. Fortunately there is no formula for getting into the top programs, so you can't do this anyways. However, what you can do is try to be a well-rounded person that achieves significant success in every endeavor you undertake. So here would be my recommendation for how to approach extra-curricular activities:

1 - Figure out what activities you are interested in. Do you like to play sports? Do you like to mentor/tutor others? Do you play an instrument? 2 - Find activities that enable you to participate in your interests. Join a sports league -- or if none exist, create one. Start a band, practice your instrument, play gigs at the local bar. Whatever you choose, make sure it is something you enjoy doing. You should naturally gravitate to a leadership role in these activities because you enjoy them. 3 - If possible, try to pursue interests that demonstrate diverse capabilities. For example, success in individual vs. team activities or intellectual vs. physical ones.

Meanwhile, you should be absolutely crushing anything job related. Quick promotions, leading high profile projects, etc. Without this element, it becomes very difficult to be competitive at any of the top schools. It is the foundation of your b-school app.

P.S. Almost everyone I speak to about business school lists HBS as their top choice. Not because it is a good fit for their career, simply because it is the best. It sounds like you realize this already, but really wanting to get into HBS is pretty meaningless, particularly because it is a generalist program by its nature.

CompBanker kinghongkong:

I understand that the progress is a black box. I am more curious about factors which can improve my chances of getting admitted.

I took the GMAT because I had intended to apply for a masters program right out of undergraduate (typical for some countires in the EU). I am not too concerned with achieving a high GMAT score in the future as I have already done very well and I am sure that I will be able to score somewhere around 750.

I am not going to apply to only one school. HBS is the school that I REALLY want to get into (probably everybody would love to go there).

Fair, but I think you're going about it wrong. Getting into HBS isn't the end goal and you shouldn't be building your life in the manor that will be most attractive to b-school adcom. Fortunately there is no formula for getting into the top programs, so you can't do this anyways. However, what you can do is try to be a well-rounded person that achieves significant success in every endeavor you undertake. So here would be my recommendation for how to approach extra-curricular activities:

1 - Figure out what activities you are interested in. Do you like to play sports? Do you like to mentor/tutor others? Do you play an instrument?
2 - Find activities that enable you to participate in your interests. Join a sports league -- or if none exist, create one. Start a band, practice your instrument, play gigs at the local bar. Whatever you choose, make sure it is something you enjoy doing. You should naturally gravitate to a leadership role in these activities because you enjoy them.
3 - If possible, try to pursue interests that demonstrate diverse capabilities. For example, success in individual vs. team activities or intellectual vs. physical ones.

Meanwhile, you should be absolutely crushing anything job related. Quick promotions, leading high profile projects, etc. Without this element, it becomes very difficult to be competitive at any of the top schools. It is the foundation of your b-school app.

P.S. Almost everyone I speak to about business school lists HBS as their top choice. Not because it is a good fit for their career, simply because it is the best. It sounds like you realize this already, but really wanting to get into HBS is pretty meaningless, particularly because it is a generalist program by its nature.

I agree with you that getting into HBS is and should not be my end goal. I am trying to plan (as much as possible) my career and b-school is just something that will be an essential part of it.

Thank you for the input! It is greatly appreciated!

Op, if your gpa is high, I strongly recommend that you apply for the 2+2. It looks like you are peaking right now. You only have one more thing to accomplish in the next 3 years. 2+2 loves engineers in big industry, PE, and lastly entrepreneurs. If you did start s successful Web consultancy, you would be perfect except for one detail, you are starting FT elsewhere. Hbs would love the following story: "I really want to work at my start up but it's risky. Hbs 2+2 program would afford me the opportunity to live my dream."

On the other hand, if you go in saying that you will work in asset management, you'll probably be better off applying in 2-3 years.

levered_M7

Out of curiosity, how do you know that b-school will be an essential part of your career? Further, what benefits of business school are motivating your focus/desire to attend?

you should avoid expressing business school as an essential part of your career when/if you do apply. Top programs like Harvard don't want the person who needs the MBA; they want the person that will be wildly successful whether they get the MBA rubber stamp or not.

Yes and no. It's true that Hbs wants people that will be successful whether or not they go to b school;however, they also want people that need an MBA to help them succeed in their most desired career path. I would say that "I need hbs to help me live out my dream successfully."

AnalyzeThat levered_M7:

Out of curiosity, how do you know that b-school will be an essential part of your career? Further, what benefits of business school are motivating your focus/desire to attend?

you should avoid expressing business school as an essential part of your career when/if you do apply. Top programs like Harvard don't want the person who needs the MBA; they want the person that will be wildly successful whether they get the MBA rubber stamp or not.

Yes and no. It's true that Hbs wants people that will be successful whether or not they go to b school;however, they also want people that need an MBA to help them succeed in their most desired career path. I would say that "I need hbs to help me live out my dream successfully."

I disagree completely. It is very clear what a top MBA program can offer you. The more important question, and certainly the question that is more difficult, is what can you offer the MBA program. "I need HBS to help me live out my dream successfully" will not (i) differentiate you from the thousands of other applicants, or (ii) offer any meaningful insight as to why you want to attend business school. Moreover, this statement potentially results in your "need" being interpreted as desperation and you seeking business school as an escape from your current role/career path.

Note: Although it may seem like semantics, there is a very big difference between alluding to the benefits of an MBA program and what said MBA program can enable you to do vs. expressing a "need", which can be equated to a necessity. This is my view based on successfully navigating the H/S/W admissions process.

levered_M7 AnalyzeThat:
levered_M7:

Out of curiosity, how do you know that b-school will be an essential part of your career? Further, what benefits of business school are motivating your focus/desire to attend?

you should avoid expressing business school as an essential part of your career when/if you do apply. Top programs like Harvard don't want the person who needs the MBA; they want the person that will be wildly successful whether they get the MBA rubber stamp or not.

Yes and no. It's true that Hbs wants people that will be successful whether or not they go to b school;however, they also want people that need an MBA to help them succeed in their most desired career path. I would say that "I need hbs to help me live out my dream successfully."

I disagree completely. It is very clear what a top MBA program can offer you. The more important question, and certainly the question that is more difficult, is what can you offer the MBA program. "I need HBS to help me live out my dream successfully" will not (i) differentiate you from the thousands of other applicants, or (ii) offer any meaningful insight as to why you want to attend business school. Moreover, this statement potentially results in your "need" being interpreted as desperation and you seeking business school as an escape from your current role/career path.

Note: Although it may seem like semantics, there is a very big difference between alluding to the benefits of an MBA program and what said MBA program can enable you to do vs. expressing a "need", which can be equated to a necessity. This is my view based on successfully navigating the H/S/W admissions process.

How you can benefit HBS and how HBS can benefit you are NOT mutually exclusive. While the weight of both in terms of importance may be drastically different (I don't know), saying you should not mention why HBS would you to the adcom is just silly.

During my interview, I made it clear to the adcom how I would benefit HBS and how they would benefit me, and it worked out. I can only go off personal experience though. I just think you are seriously hurting this candidate by telling him to exclude pertinent information.

AnalyzeThat levered_M7: AnalyzeThat: levered_M7:

Out of curiosity, how do you know that b-school will be an essential part of your career? Further, what benefits of business school are motivating your focus/desire to attend?

you should avoid expressing business school as an essential part of your career when/if you do apply. Top programs like Harvard don't want the person who needs the MBA; they want the person that will be wildly successful whether they get the MBA rubber stamp or not.

Yes and no. It's true that Hbs wants people that will be successful whether or not they go to b school;however, they also want people that need an MBA to help them succeed in their most desired career path. I would say that "I need hbs to help me live out my dream successfully."

I disagree completely. It is very clear what a top MBA program can offer you. The more important question, and certainly the question that is more difficult, is what can you offer the MBA program. "I need HBS to help me live out my dream successfully" will not (i) differentiate you from the thousands of other applicants, or (ii) offer any meaningful insight as to why you want to attend business school. Moreover, this statement potentially results in your "need" being interpreted as desperation and you seeking business school as an escape from your current role/career path.

Note: Although it may seem like semantics, there is a very big difference between alluding to the benefits of an MBA program and what said MBA program can enable you to do vs. expressing a "need", which can be equated to a necessity. This is my view based on successfully navigating the H/S/W admissions process.

How you can benefit HBS and how HBS can benefit you are NOT mutually exclusive. While the weight of both in terms of importance may be drastically different (I don't know), saying you should not mention why HBS would you to the adcom is just silly.

During my interview, I made it clear to the adcom how I would benefit HBS and how they would benefit me, and it worked out. I can only go off personal experience though. I just think you are seriously hurting this candidate by telling him to exclude pertinent information.

Please read my post - I refer to the benefits of an MBA program and the capabilities afforded to one via graduate business school explicitly and how this differs from a “need”. Further, I agree that you should express the reasons why HBS is an appropriate choice for you and how the specific attributes of the program are ideal given your career aspirations – I never stated otherwise and thus hopefully I am not misinterpreting your statement that it is “just silly” not to do so as a direct response to (read misinterpretation of) my original post.

My point of view differs from yours in that I do not believe someone should state that HBS or any other program is a "need". It really comes down to verbiage and presentation skills. There was an article on the forum earlier this morning talking about sales techniques and an example was given of how telling a potential employer how badly you want a job is the lowest form of persuasion. I agree with this view and, while I am sure that this type of persuasion may yield results, there are more effective ways to approach a job interview that produce better results on a more consistent basis. I would liken this hypothetical job interview to an interview at HBS.

The “need” aspect of your business school application is an implicit aspect of you pursuing an MBA and the admissions committee is both aware of this need and understanding of such. This applies to all applicants, regardless of past experiences, successes, or planned professional endeavors. Whether it is the journalist who seeks technical skills to transition into finance, the entrepreneur who could care less about anything other than building a network and putting ideas into action with likeminded individuals in an incubator type setting, or the already accomplished former banker turned PE investor who is facing the “up and out” culture of a mega fund, each of the roughly 10,000 people that apply to HBS each year share this need. With this in mind, I personally would not spend valuable words in an admissions essay or precious minutes in an interview discussing something so abundantly obvious and would prefer to spend time on differentiating factors of myself, my experiences, and my overall candidacy.

Perhaps you did not intend the literal meaning of “need”, which in this example would equate to a necessary and integral component of one’s career. If this is the case, you should be more careful about using quotation marks and offering such specific advice as this can be easily misinterpreted – by both the OP and others on the forum. If, however, you were specifically recommending that the OP express a true need, I disagree and you can refer to my reasons why.

Also, in response to your statement, "I really want to work at my start up but it's risky. Hbs 2+2 program would afford me the opportunity to live my dream." Again, offering such explicit advice is risky and should be better developed. The statement is vague by its very nature and, frankly, poorly written. The result of this filth is (i) a disservice to you as you tarnish your username and personal brand, and (ii) a disservice to readers of the forum who take your advice too literally and will likely fail in doing so.

I sincerely hope that this type of writing did not appear in your application essays – if it did, the value of the HBS MBA is rapidly depreciating as I cannot help to think that the potential of someone who writes in this manner is subpar by any measure and certainly well below the high standards of HBS. Given you were successful at HBS, you should provide more substance in your responses and share your valuable insights on this forum to the benefit of the readers.

I actually have a really good friend who's on the admissions committee of the HBS. He's one of my bestest friends in the whole world. The other night I had a long intimate conversation with him about what it takes to get into the HBS. What he told me, in confidence, was eye-opening. He told me there is one key quality that the HBS looks for above all else, one core attribute that permeates the very fiber of every admitted applicant's being, a trait more vital than saving several third world villages from bubonic plague, a trait more profoundly important in the pursuit of excellence than even getting the legendary 900 GMAT score because you managed to activate the extra credit question...a characteristic, he said, that fundamentally defines every member of the HBS ..."MAD SWAGGER" is how he described it. As he explained it to me, you basically have to be able to walk into a Boston bar and strut and act like you own the joint.

levered_M7 AnalyzeThat:
levered_M7:
AnalyzeThat:
levered_M7:

Out of curiosity, how do you know that b-school will be an essential part of your career? Further, what benefits of business school are motivating your focus/desire to attend?

you should avoid expressing business school as an essential part of your career when/if you do apply. Top programs like Harvard don't want the person who needs the MBA; they want the person that will be wildly successful whether they get the MBA rubber stamp or not.

Yes and no. It's true that Hbs wants people that will be successful whether or not they go to b school;however, they also want people that need an MBA to help them succeed in their most desired career path. I would say that "I need hbs to help me live out my dream successfully."

I disagree completely. It is very clear what a top MBA program can offer you. The more important question, and certainly the question that is more difficult, is what can you offer the MBA program. "I need HBS to help me live out my dream successfully" will not (i) differentiate you from the thousands of other applicants, or (ii) offer any meaningful insight as to why you want to attend business school. Moreover, this statement potentially results in your "need" being interpreted as desperation and you seeking business school as an escape from your current role/career path.

Note: Although it may seem like semantics, there is a very big difference between alluding to the benefits of an MBA program and what said MBA program can enable you to do vs. expressing a "need", which can be equated to a necessity. This is my view based on successfully navigating the H/S/W admissions process.

How you can benefit HBS and how HBS can benefit you are NOT mutually exclusive. While the weight of both in terms of importance may be drastically different (I don't know), saying you should not mention why HBS would you to the adcom is just silly.

During my interview, I made it clear to the adcom how I would benefit HBS and how they would benefit me, and it worked out. I can only go off personal experience though. I just think you are seriously hurting this candidate by telling him to exclude pertinent information.

Please read my post - I refer to the benefits of an MBA program and the capabilities afforded to one via graduate business school explicitly and how this differs from a “need”. Further, I agree that you should express the reasons why HBS is an appropriate choice for you and how the specific attributes of the program are ideal given your career aspirations – I never stated otherwise and thus hopefully I am not misinterpreting your statement that it is “just silly” not to do so as a direct response to (read misinterpretation of) my original post.

My point of view differs from yours in that I do not believe someone should state that HBS or any other program is a "need". It really comes down to verbiage and presentation skills. There was an article on the forum earlier this morning talking about sales techniques and an example was given of how telling a potential employer how badly you want a job is the lowest form of persuasion. I agree with this view and, while I am sure that this type of persuasion may yield results, there are more effective ways to approach a job interview that produce better results on a more consistent basis. I would liken this hypothetical job interview to an interview at HBS.

The “need” aspect of your business school application is an implicit aspect of you pursuing an MBA and the admissions committee is both aware of this need and understanding of such. This applies to all applicants, regardless of past experiences, successes, or planned professional endeavors. Whether it is the journalist who seeks technical skills to transition into finance, the entrepreneur who could care less about anything other than building a network and putting ideas into action with likeminded individuals in an incubator type setting, or the already accomplished former banker turned PE investor who is facing the “up and out” culture of a mega fund, each of the roughly 10,000 people that apply to HBS each year share this need. With this in mind, I personally would not spend valuable words in an admissions essay or precious minutes in an interview discussing something so abundantly obvious and would prefer to spend time on differentiating factors of myself, my experiences, and my overall candidacy.

Perhaps you did not intend the literal meaning of “need”, which in this example would equate to a necessary and integral component of one’s career. If this is the case, you should be more careful about using quotation marks and offering such specific advice as this can be easily misinterpreted – by both the OP and others on the forum. If, however, you were specifically recommending that the OP express a true need, I disagree and you can refer to my reasons why.

Also, in response to your statement, "I really want to work at my start up but it's risky. Hbs 2+2 program would afford me the opportunity to live my dream." Again, offering such explicit advice is risky and should be better developed. The statement is vague by its very nature and, frankly, poorly written. The result of this filth is (i) a disservice to you as you tarnish your username and personal brand, and (ii) a disservice to readers of the forum who take your advice too literally and will likely fail in doing so.

I sincerely hope that this type of writing did not appear in your application essays – if it did, the value of the HBS MBA is rapidly depreciating as I cannot help to think that the potential of someone who writes in this manner is subpar by any measure and certainly well below the high standards of HBS. Given you were successful at HBS, you should provide more substance in your responses and share your valuable insights on this forum to the benefit of the readers.

Wow, look at all of this. I'm going to address some of your points, and I'll let the OP decide which way he wants to go. Sorry, I don't feel like replying to everything because there is a lot here.

Ok fine. OP, do not literally walk into an interview and say, "I need HBS to live out my dream." However, when asked how you have gotten to where you are and what your short and long term goals are, you should explain to them, with background, how you got to where you are, how an MBA and how HBS fit into that picture, and how those two combined will lead you to where you want to go. And to your point Levered M7: Yes, it is semantics. Using the literal word "need" will not kill his chances.. get over it.

Also, i find it ridiculous that you are talking about my username and brand. I spend most of my time browsing and replying from a phone and could care less about my anonymous username and do not feel that I am obligated to provide valuable insights. I applaud your attempt to make this personal. I hope, for your reputations sake, nobody disagrees with you at B school. ((There's my obligatory personal insult to match yours about HBS lowering its standards for me))

Looking back, the only thing I would change about my previous posts were the quotes which may have readers believe that they should literally say or write those words. I stand behind everything else.

This got weird in a hurry.

Awkward.