Is Ivey business still worth it?
So for a bit of context, my short-term goal right now is to land a job in investment banking. Given that I’m unsure of what I want to do in the long term, I like the breadth of exit opportunities presented by the job.
Doing some research, I stumbled upon Ivey which seems to be the top business program in Canada. However, I wanted to know the placement level for investment banking (BB + Big 6) and consulting (MBB + T2) relative to the class size. Given that it’s a pain to get the HB1 ( I’m an international), I’ll be focusing on the Canadian market. In that regard, is Ivey still worth it? What I mean by this is its domestic placement still strong relative to the class size?
I ask this as international fees are quite high and I want to ensure I’m making a wise decision as I know that Ivey earned its notoriety as a consequence of it’s elite US pipelines. However, when you take this out of the equation, is it still worth it?
Also, if US recruitment from ivey is still possible for internationals, please let me know!
Edit: My other consideration is to do Social Sciences at UCL (can’t do Econ + STEM due to maths prediction). I know that UCL is a much better university than western but when it comes to placement, I’m scared that studying social sciences will push me behind Econ + Stem in recruiting making it even harder to break in and that’s only made worse by the tough competition from the 5 other targets whereas Ivey HBA is the top course at the number one target in the country.
Ivey absolutely has the strongest placements into Toronto globals and MBB. Big 6 is more of a tossup between other schools but Ivey is likely still the highest represented schools. I’d say it’s definitely worth the extra tuition fees compared to a Schulich/Laurier/Rotman.
Thanks for the insight!
I know Ivey is the strongest in CA but in a class of 600, what % would you expect to Be placed in BB/Big 6/EB/PE/MBB+T2 ?
Stop thinking like that. Not everyone in Ivey wants finance or specifically these types of jobs. Just because you go to a program doesn't mean you'll succeed, whereever you go you need to be top 5% minimum to get these sorts of jobs. That being said, if you can get on WIC/IPC you're probably chilling in terms of going to the US.
If you want to go to a Canadian school and you're interested in investment banking, either in Canada or the US, you can make no better choice than to go to Ivey or Queen's.
Any image of Ivey students "underrepresenting" in B5 IB roles are because they self-select out or B5 turn them away because Ivey kids so often just take better offers/lateral after a year anyways. If you work hard enough, you will land a strong investment banking role coming out of Ivey, end of story.
Anedcotally some of the best analysts I've ever worked with here in the U.S. with from Ivey / Queens. Not sure what they're feeding these kids in Canada but they blow out some of the kids from the typical targest I've seen from Gtown, Duke, etc.
There's far less Canadian positions available per capita. An analyst at Cibc for instance still beat out way more competition for the job and is certainly ahead of the average analyst at an equivalent firm in New York in terms of qualifications/skills. And then the ones who make it to the US are again the top of the top.
Even people not from Ivey/Queen's, I find Canadian bankers in general are exceptionally strong... In general Canadians tend to just do better.
I have a friend at a strong UMM PE firm and he went to a non-target and worked at a B5 and he said he is far, far more competent than his HYP/Goldman counterparts, and I trust him (extremely high GMAT score, was ranked very highly as an analyst)
Since getting into this industry, a lot of the "T20" and even "T10" caliber students are A LOT weaker and dumber than I thought they'd be given how prominent and international their schools are.
At my firm in Canada we've receive CVs from Ivy Leaguers that have exceptional GPAs, strong SATs, and their CVs are dogshit with spelling mistakes/they don't know what the hell they're talking about in interviews.
I'm Canadian but ended up going to an ivy in the US. I think people have trouble finding front office jobs out of these Canadian business schools because the market is way oversaturated. Per capita front office jobs in Toronto is just way low and the caliber of people they admit is much lower than the US targets. I would say caliber of students is comparable to a state flagship like Ohio or Wisconsin. I know this because I went to a public school, and most people with decent grades and a pulse get in. A common misconception I think Americans or non-Canadians have on Canadian unis and "targets" in particular is that they don't understand Canada essentially makes higher education a utility; literally, everyone can go to these "targets" if they try, and there is very little legitimate competition.
But obviously with any school, there will be people who end up working at Evercore, etc. In the traditional sense, any of these schools are basically non-targets for placement. The chances of you going to the US from Canada are pretty low because you aren't a Canadian citizen and can't access the TN Visa. I would say definitely go to UCL even if you don't study economics or sth. No one really cares what major you study. The most likely outcome for you out of Ivey or whatever Canadian business program is either accounting/audit at KPMG or some other big four or unemployed. I know ppl who become waiters at restaurants, random marketing jobs, sell real estate as an agent, and still interning after graduation. I would actually say Big Four is a top-quartile outcome like if someone got a job at Deloitte, they are pretty close to the top of the class. Again I know this cus most of my highschool friends went to these schools.
Yes, can concur w the above comment. I'm also a Canadian studying here at a US target and can confirm that ALL the smartest Canadians go to top US colleges and the rejects are left at Western/Queens (Brain drain effect). I wouldn't say Ivey is as bad as Ohio or Wisconsin state though. Still a semi-target probably more comparable to BC, UMich, Notre Dame, Swarthmore, USC, etc.
I firstly want to thank you both for saying the truth as is, without any filters.
As you said, I think that going to the UK would be the wiser choice. Not only because of the stronger odds of breaking in, but also because the finance industry is much more developed there and that will provide me with a stronger platform for learning as well as a greater diversity of exit opportunities which is after all, the main thing I’m after.
However, I would like to point out that its quite harsh to say that “ALL” the brightest kids go to the US due the sheer randomness (and politics) that characterise admissions in the US which means that many extremely bright kids are turned down each year. An example of this would be Asian men trying to break into STEM at T-20s. The oversupply of extremely bright and qualified individuals from this subsection of applicants means that a lot of them are rejected for less impressive profiles coming from underrepresented backgrounds. This is just an example amongst many but US admissions (at the highest levels) are really a crap shot and it is not the “brightest”, but rather those with the most well rounded application (that match what the unis want in a specific year) that get granted admission so please, I kindly ask you to simply be grateful to have been granted admission, rather than using it to look down on others who have not.
Dude we just trying to give you the best advice. No need to lecture us. We played the admissions game many years ago. I know who gets in and who doesn't, and it's not because of chance, bruh, unless someone donates 8-figs. To get into a US target from Canada, u have to be one of the top people (make it to the national team or sth) in the country at something, be it physics, debate, or whatever area or extracurricular aside from being very smart and having 1550+ SAT and whatnot. People who don't get in are usually just good/excellent or even the best students but don't do anything else that distinguishes them. What I said has nothing to do with looking down at people but just being realistic.
Ivey goes hard dude, even without citizenship he can recruit for globals and MBB/B4 consulting if that's what hes interested in.
lol, what a strange take. there are plenty of academically gifted students who can't afford to go to the US or aren't one of the lucky very few who get a free ride. Many others just don't have the exposure to the world of finance etc and don't understand the on-paper benefits of going to the US. Being a waiter or selling real estate is by no means an outcome that is more common out of Ivey than a random state school in the US with like 50,000 students, give me a break.
Don’t know how this is a weird take. U think Ivey is as hard to get into as a us target? I’m not the one saying all the smartest Canadian kids go to the US. I’m just stating the facts from what I have seen. 80-90% of kids who go there that I know end up working some local advertising job or some random gig. Placement wise it’s seems equal to a state business school, which is what it is except it is Canadian. It’s called university of western Ontario and it’s public and named after a province. Ivey is literally the Canadian equivalent of a business school at a state flagship by definition. Somehow u think outcomes from there will be better than a US state business school even when there’s way less finance/ professional jobs in Canada? I’m not talking about the top ~2-3% of students there who can make it to the US like most of you guys are doing. Probably less than 2-3% as no one wants to sponsor TN right out of Canada after Trump. I’m talking about the whole class. I don’t know why people are coping this hard. To be honest, I think it’s a fine option if you are Canadian and pay the reduced rate but op is international and paying almost the same as US costs but without any ability to access the US job market (he can’t get TN). I got into those schools and decided to go to the US despite the high cost delta as a Canadian because the outcomes are so drastically different. I very much put my money where my mouth is and it seems like I’m right from my experience. I’m just trying to give op another perspective so that he can make a good decision instead of just people giving a warped perspective because all the Ivey ppl they interacted in the US with were top 1% of their class. I can’t imagine paying almost US tuition to only access the Canadian job market, which is dogshit.
Instead of batting back and forth with hearsay, I went and found Ivey's employment report.
https://www.ivey.uwo.ca/media/e5vljecy/ivey-hba-2022-employment-report…
Using the facts and figures from there, I can gather that the % of students who are going into accounting is 4%. How does that jive with the statement above that stating the most likely outcome out of Ivey is 'accounting / audit at KPMG'? I'm sure you've (or whoever made that statement) diligently gathered the data so would be eager to hear. It was also stated the other likely option is unemployment - from the report it appears that well over 95% of HBAs are employed by fall of graduating year. Finally, I never said Ivey is as difficult to get into as a US target but you're sadly mistaken if you think 'anyone can get in if they try'. From what I can see, the acceptance rate for AEO is sub 10%.
For kicks, I also pulled up Ohio's employment report, the school you comp'd Ivey to in terms of caliber of student. I believe you're referring to Fisher? According to their employment report, 19% of students actually go into accounting (much higher than Ivey) and their acceptance rate is 35+%. Would again love to hear how that jives with the fact that both schools are apparently equal in student academic rigour?
https://files.fisher.osu.edu/careers-recruiting/public/2022-09/AnnualRe…
And I'm not arguing that there are way less front office jobs in Canada and it's way tougher to get one, by the way. Nor did I actually attend Ivey HBA.
Canada is shrinking. You can recruit to Canada with UCL and be on par with the semis there + being a target in the UK + EU (if you speak euro languages)
Omnis assumenda unde est quibusdam eos. Distinctio nulla ipsa eligendi in autem eum. Rerum autem doloremque molestiae esse aut at quisquam. Magnam unde assumenda dolorem veniam ipsam voluptatum aut.
Velit magnam enim autem ipsum minima consequuntur commodi. Ex rerum nostrum commodi sed. Ut molestias consequatur reprehenderit porro nemo fugiat.
Maiores repudiandae et sit totam. Voluptatem similique et eaque quidem excepturi dignissimos nihil. Modi maxime et nobis ducimus veritatis. Hic repellat voluptatem harum qui et voluptatem culpa unde. Voluptates aut beatae a autem. Autem ut fugit maxime a. Optio qui nihil quo laboriosam neque accusantium voluptate facere.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...