Is Wharton MBA Worthwhile?
Applied to HSW this year and was rejected from H/S, but accepted to W. Rationale for applying was mainly for the break and other personal / social elements of the MBA, rather than career reasons as I’m coming from a top IB and MF PE background and went to a T20 undergrad program.
While W is a good program and the curriculum flexibility (no Friday classes, very social vibe) is nice for what I’m looking for in the MBA, I’m struggling with if I can justify the high cost for an arguably neutral / negative resume impact and less helpful MBA network. It seems like H/S have solidified their spots as the target schools for applicants with pre-MBA buyside experience (have not found anyone from my PE firm that has attended W in the last ~5 years) and W has a larger cohort of students trying to transition to IB / consulting.
Would attending W from this background be viewed negatively or just as a neutral factor? I’m looking to continue on in an investing role post-MBA so cognizant of the optics
I'm a Wharton MBA alum who was admitted to Wharton, rejected/waitlisted at Stanford/Harvard, and came from a top IB/PE background. I chose to attend Wharton and ended up going back into PE post-MBA. I enjoyed my time at Wharton and felt it was basically as advertised. You'll meet a lot of people, go on a ton of trips, and have some well-deserved time to breathe and get your bearings.
It's true that getting certain jobs out of Wharton can be an uphill battle -- Viking and Tiger are examples. I believe Elliott and some other elite-of-elite firms have hired out of Wharton in recent history, but the number of people landing such roles out of any business school is tiny. On the PE side, there have been 5-10 people each year going to MF/UMM the last few years. The most important factor in the job hunt is pre-MBA PE experience. Practically everyone in my class who recruited for post-MBA PE ended up somewhere +/- their pre-MBA role, with most people returning to their firms or going slightly down-market. I think attending Wharton was largely neutral for me from a career standpoint. The benefits I saw were mostly not immediately related to my career, though this may change over time.
I had a classmate who came from a top PE background but attended a T50 state flagship undergrad. He chose to attend Wharton to burnish his resume, among other reasons. Though HBS and GSB have certainly entered a category of their own in recent years, the Wharton name still carries tremendous weight with LPs and the buyside alumni network (with the exception of VC) is second only to HBS, a holdover from the school's historical status. With a T20 undergrad, attending could still be accretive to your resume and is worth considering. With your profile, you would also stand out as one of the biggest fish in the third-biggest pond, not a bad place to be when recruiting.
If you mostly want to go to business school for personal reasons and are only hesitating because you're concerned about your career prospects, don't worry. If you're so inclined, you could pay the deposit, feel out the lateral market, and attend if nothing that excites you sticks.
Really appreciate the candid and thoughtful response! A few follow up questions if you wouldn’t mind:
1) What ultimately was the deciding factor in your decision to go v. lateral / continue at your pre-MBA firm (if that was on the table)?
2) To clarify, do you think that Tiger / Viking type of roles would be out of reach coming from W even with a pre-MBA background that would be sufficient at H/S (or for going direct w/o MBA)? Or are you more so saying that it’s just not been common for W students to end up there, perhaps due to selection bias? From what I’ve gathered, PE roles are pretty much accessible so long as you have the pre-MBA experience but it’s been harder to figure out for these HF / crossover roles
3) Sounds like you’re a bit removed from the MBA now. In retrospect, how do you feel about the decision to go v skipping the MBA and continuing to save $$$ / progress in seniority?
Combining 1&3) My firm did not have a history of direct-promoting associates and my choice was to either lateral or go to business school. I wanted to attend b school for substantially similar reasons to the ones you outlined (social, travel, etc.). I recognized it'd probably be the last time in my life without major responsibilities like a demanding job or children to take care of. The value of being able to take two years off in your twenties, with savings to enjoy your time (unlike undergrad), can't easily be quantified. When I was trawling WSO seeking advice on this same question, I came across a poster who described the MBA as "two years of retirement pulled forward into your twenties, when your dick still works". A bit crude perhaps, but funny and true.
From a strict net worth standpoint, I'd certainly be ahead right now had I just foregone the MBA and lateraled. However, life for most people is not a DCF, and b school contributed to my life in non-monetary ways like conferring experiences and cultivating relationships. Even the financial point could change as I progress in my career -- I've personally seen people source deals through their MBA network and even start firms with their MBA classmates. The "payback period" might be a few years or a few decades.
2) If you were a Harvard varsity lacrosse undergrad with a 4.0 in physics > GS TMT > Blackstone top bucket flagship buyout candidate with a 790 GMAT (exaggerating a little for comedic effect but this is the modal kind of background at the shops in question), then no I do not think attending W would bar you from receiving interviews. However, a person with that background would probably be at H/S anyway so it's somewhat of a moot point. These places hire zero or one MBA most years -- they will be as selective and arbitrary as they like. If you're coming from a T20 undergrad, even with top IB/PE experience your current resume faces a pedigree deficit compared to other candidates and you're fighting a very uphill battle. Even if you are aware of people who landed these jobs without the perfect resume, be aware that other factors may have contributed to the hiring decision (e.g., family office is an LP, dad was college roommates with senior partner on IC). Happens much more often than you'd think in these rarified circles.
A separate question is the state of the crossover hiring market right now, which I'm not tapped into. If you're Viking/Tiger/etc or bust, I'd recommend trying to lateral directly and matriculating at W if it doesn't work out. I'm aware of someone who did this a few years ago -- believe he even moved into his Philly apartment when he got the offer and "dropped out."
As another (more recent) data point, it's true some elite funds (crossover/HF/PE) don't regularly come to W like they do at H/S. Others do come to W. For example, Elliot and Viking recruit at W, Tiger does not. That being said, with your profile you can still get in front of the funds who don't come to campus via friends/network. If you know people at a fund who would say hey we should look at Investment Analyst in HF, you'll get a look (if they're hiring) given your background.
There are dozens of UMM/MF PE associates in my Wharton class, and I think a decent % of them are from HYPSM/T10 UG, so they actually have slightly more pedigree than you do. So I think if there are that many people okay with it, then it probably isn't a bad choice lol. Personally don't really see a difference between MF PE folks at HBS vs those at Wharton (not sure about GSB).
On the MF PE side it does seem like a significant portion of that cohort is Carlyle associates that I imagine are returning post-MBA (think Carlyle still requires MBA). But yeah agree on the quality not being different between W and H on average, MBA apps have just become a bit more of a crapshoot for that demographic
First commenter here. There were probably around 10 UMM/MF PE associates in my graduating class (counting traditional US buyout strategy only). This relatively small number (1-2% of the class at most) might suggest it's not worth attending if you come from such a background. However, somewhat counterintuitively, it puts you in a pretty decent spot for recruiting.
The alum network is strong and many alums are quite loyal to the school. The senior ranks of many notable PE firms (just check their websites) are something like 40% HBS / 30% Wharton / 10% GSB / 20% other or no MBA. If one of these firms plans to hire a couple of MBAs in a given year, they'd like for a Wharton candidate or two to be in the mix if they can manage it. With a T10 undergrad and top IB/PE pre-MBA experience, I didn't have too much trouble landing interviews, MF or otherwise. Ultimately ended up somewhere I'm very happy with.
Right now based on recent research for MFPE its more like 40% HBS, 40% no MBA, and then 20% Wharton/Stanford/Other. Harvard's pedigree seems to be a tier above the competing programs. Just what I read recently, don't hate.
Went to HBS. Not sure why people on WSO are convinced there’s such a big difference between H and W. H is only harder to get into because they allocate so many spots to people with “interesting” backgrounds. The finance/consulting crowd is identical at both schools.
HBS helps marginally for buy side spots but the HBS guys who landed top buy side spots would’ve been able to do so from Wharton as well.
Honestly, I do believe 99% of the people within HSW are interchangeable, a lot of it comes down to luck when it comes to admissions during that cycle. But at the end of the day, the network is pretty much the same because most people at the schools are well-connected due to their UG and previous job (i.e. HBS people are connected to S/W people through some other networks). It's just one giant homoegenous group that went to the same 10-20 UGs, and worked at the same 10-20 employers with a few outliers (and those outliers are mostly trying to do the classic IB/consulting/tech paths anyways).
The difference I believe is attributed to those one off jobs that are ultra prestigious that will only hire HBS grads because they can (think Paulson exclusively hiring Harvard JD MBAs). A Wharton JD MBA could easily do that job but won’t be given the chance because they’re not a member of the club and will never be. That’s not a knock on the Wharton as a school as it’s world class across the board and more a reflection on the culture in finance. So ultimately, I think the gap between the schools whether it’s perceived or real will only come into play for the top 1% of people. I’d venture to guess that even across the M7 or most of the T15 that the median outcomes are not all that different.
I’m applying to business school in a few years and this is purely anecdotal so I’d be curious to hear what other people have to say based on their experiences. Through my interactions with people at Wharton they’re not all that likable and have a superiority complex to the rest of the M7 and an inferiority complex to HBS and GSB. I went to one of their follies shows and went out with a group after who were taking shots at HBS and GSB that came across as salty. The culture there from an admissions perspective also seems to mirror that to a degree and seems really hardo. For example, they seem to overcompensate towards candidates with brand name corporate experience over a more interesting non traditional candidate who hypothetically sold a business for $10 million or started a successful regional initiative.
delete
I'm gonna get downvoted but this is my honest take. Please consider with a grain of salt. Not an MBA student but my general sense after taking classes with Wharton MBA students is that they seem kinda uninspiring? A lot of people came from like EY/Deloitte and Middle market banks and so on. Was in this finance class and although the MBAs worked very hard the undergrads are just sharper even tho they were not as enthusiastic about the material as the MBAs. If you went to a good undergrad school I don't know how inspiring your grad experience will be at Wharton. I mean just look at them; most of them look washed up and directionless and middle aged imao at like their late 20s. Take a tour and sit in one of the classes in Huntsman before you commit. I think the general profile of the Wharton MBA is either somebody who had great professional background in buyside/sellside but meh school or meh job but went to a really great school like hypsm or internationals but very few people have both great undergrad and professional sheen.
You're getting MS'd for this but there's some truth to your comment. The intellectual caliber of the average Wharton MBA student is a rung below that of the average Wharton undergrad -- or for that matter, the average undergrad at any target school. From personal experience, I can tell you the same applies to HBS and every other business school except maybe GSB given its small class size. For most people, the MBA is an opportunity to get a a second chance at IB/consulting, a pivot from an unrelated career, and/or a two year social vacation. The very top mid-late 20s people in any field simply don't go to business school because the value-add is too low and the opportunity cost is too high. No unicorn founder decides to do an MBA, whereas practically every brilliant and capable 18 year old goes to undergrad somewhere. Still, the top ~20% of the MBA class will impress you if your criteria is elite undergrad + elite employer.
Separately, bear in mind that the average matriculating student has around 5 years of work experience. You never know who will crush it in a 40 year career. Often it's charismatic, clear thinking, socially adept people who are "smart enough" but unexceptional in abstract thinking. They shine in traits that aren't necessarily rewarded by the undergrad admissions / "elite" employer junior internship hiring gauntlet, but see their careers accelerate at the mid-senior levels. The MBA is a rare opportunity to meaningfully meet a large number of such folks across diverse career fields. You might learn a thing or two from them, like I did.
Great points, especially with the mid-career stuff that I did not really consider.
I pass the undergraduate study areas and all I hear is computer typing. When I pass by the 2nd floor MBA lounge, all I hear is chit chat and laughing. Those fuckers do nothing but socialize, take phone calls, and go on trips lol.
Imao true. MBAs are much more chill.
You see their class size? It’s huge!! They are literally dilating the brand
Quos iusto perferendis ipsa cum. Consequatur cumque nam rerum nobis libero vel delectus nam. Enim et sed qui odit quam eum. Architecto dolorem sed perspiciatis sed amet error maiores.
Deleniti velit sit culpa sapiente sapiente. Doloremque reiciendis neque sint eligendi eos id eos. Ut modi ipsam veniam dignissimos ipsa fugiat. Est distinctio facere ex.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...