MS Finance: US/UK Targets vs. Hong Kong CUHK
I am planning to start an MSF in 2013, and am trying to decide whether to pursue this either at CUHK in Hong Kong or at a target in US/UK (think Oxford/Cambridge/LSE/ MIT/Princeton etc). The goal is to land an S&T position in Asia (mainly focusing on HK). Whilst I would also consider working in NY/LN for a year or two before transferring to Asia, I would much prefer to start out in HK.
First off a little about my background:-
-Caucasian, native English speaker, now semi-fluent in Mandarin Chinese
-Undergrad was at Oxford, first class honors (but not quantitative major)
-Worked for a BB in BO for a year after graduation
-After BO for a year moved to China and studied Mandarin full time for 2 years
-Have been teaching English for a couple of years since then, now in late 20s
-GMAT: 740
-Will take CFA 1 this December, CFA 2 in June 2013
CUHK:
+Target school in HK, all the BBs come to campus for recruiting
+Located in HK, where I want to work, easier for networking
+Course can either be completed in 1 year or spread over 2 years (can allow an extra year of time for OCR if recruiting doesn’t go well in the 1st year)
-Most recruiting for BB Asia is done from targets in US/UK?
-Program is relatively new (full time MSF was only established last year)
Target in UK/USA:
+Top targets for BBs worldwide
+Most recruiting for BB Asia done from top targets in US/UK
+More established programs with world class reputations and alumni network
-Harder to network with professionals in HK when I am halfway across the globe
-Most courses must be completed in 1 year, no option to extend.
To be honest I would rather take the program at CUHK as I would rather be in HK anyway and it will be more convenient for networking with HK professionals. But I am also worried that since most BB Asia recruiting is done not from local schools but from top targets in US/UK I may be at a disadvantage compared to those students. However I have also considered the fact most BB don’t recruit heavily from HK schools is partly because of (actual or perceived) lower English standards than at US/UK schools, as a native speaker this obviously won’t be a problem for me.
I am aware that at my age (late 20s) I am very late in the game and hence it is very important that I give myself the best possible shot at recruitment.
Also I would be very interested to hear from people who got offers for BB SA/FT in Asia, how did the networking work? I mean do people usually focus their networking with professionals based in LN/NY and apply to HK, or do networking (via email) with professionals based in HK?
Your educational background is impressive. Is there a reason why you haven't been able to get a front-office job at a bank? Also how are you going to get into a good MSF program when you do not have a quantitative background? Even the less "hardcore" ones require at least multivariable calculus, probability, statistics, linear algebra, real analysis.
But to answer your question, it's always better to attend the best program you get into, even if it's not in your target city. Ultimately, it's the name brand that gets you the opportunity. For instance, London Business MBA's main selling point is that it's the school to go to for finance jobs in London. But guess what. LBS students get their butts kicked by wharton/booth/columbia students, even for london jobs. That's because the more prestigious name always trumps everything else. Likewise, in your case, Asians are obsessed with pedigree, and a big U.S./U.K. name such as princeton/mit/stanford/berkeley/columbia/LSE/Oxford will just open more doors for you than a local chinese school. It's no secret that Hong Kong finance recruiters LOVE top U.S. schools.
Thanks for your reply, this is helpful.
Regarding me not getting a FO job until now, that’s basically because I didn’t know what I was doing until a few months ago. Regarding the quantitative side of things, my undergrad degree was non-quantitative but back in high school I was pretty much the top student in maths (I kind of regret not doing a quantitative undergrad). Starting this month I am now teaching myself the calc, prob, stats etc. There are about 10 months between now and MSF starting in 2013, working at a fast pace hopefully this will be enough time to get the material covered, if I have major problems then ill find tutors to help me. Does this sound reasonable or is it likely to be too difficult to teach myself the math?
Yeah I was thinking that it might be more worthwhile to go to a top US/UK school (assuming I can get in of course) for the pedigree. On the other hand I was wondering whether in my case MSF pedigree might not matter as much (compared to a kid who completed undergrad at a non famous state school) as my undergrad was at Oxford.
Also as I am a white kid with no family connections to Asia I was wondering whether doing my MSF in Hong Kong might make me look more "diverse" / "show commitment to wanting to be in Asia long term?"
Or looking at it like this: For a Chinese kid who did his undergrad at a school in China it definitely makes sense for him to go to a top school in US/UK for MSF. But as I went to Oxford for undergrad I already have the UK target school pedigree so was thinking it might make me look more committed to working in HK (“Asian experience”) by going to a top school in HK?
I just don't see how you're gonna get into a top MSF program without having taken quant courses in college. It's a dealbreaker.
Why don't you try to get some decent finance work experience (even middle office is ok) and then apply to business schools? I think that's your best bet. I imagine you would be competitive for oxford, insead, london business, since the caliber of students there is much lower than that of top U.S. b-schools. Also since you're interested in hong kong, insead/lbs would be a good fit for you. Heck, you can apply to insead's singapore campus, which will make HK recruiting a lot easier.
As of now, unless I'm missing something, I don't see a MSF as a plausible option.
Best of luck.
Oxford graduate with BO? Dude, BBs hire for FO at your university... No excuse. Why did you just leave for 2 years? There's people in their late 20s who have been in the industry for 5+ years already.
Yeah im fully aware ive screwed up quite badly in the past, just trying to figure out the best way forward from now.
CUHK is number 3 in HK. Most Banks recruit from HKU and HKUST, the MBA of the latter is the only good one in HK.
If you are certain that you want to stay in Asia than it is better to make your MBA over there, as you say as non native chinese speaker the odds are very low that you will land again in Asia. If you study in UK on the other hand you would have the possibility to enter non banking jobs in the UK if banking wont work.
A (european) friend of mine had this career: 4 Yrs Big4 M&A in Europe, MBA @ a HK Uni, Summer Associate Corporate Banking at a BB in HK, received no offer, now unemployed and gives private Finance/Accounting lessons to Students in HK, hopes to get accepted to a Phd program.
Anyway, HK is crazy and probably best place to network worldwide. When I was there Ive met a Head of Equity Sales of a global bank in a bar, bought him some drinks and got drunk with him, Ive told him to get back to me when he needs a graduate. He actually came back to me and asked me if I can start immediately, which I declined because I meanwhile started my MSc in Europe. Another Friend of mine met someone who worked in a small private equity shop (also in a bar in Wanchai), made an unpaid internship at his company and received a full time offer. So everything is possible in HK.
Also you should know, the market is very TOUGH now. The odds of receiving a FT offer is low, TBH your background doesnt make it better. Teaching English and learning Mandarin sounds more like a hippy background. The MBA starters I met at my bank were mostly lawyers, bankers, accountants or managers at large corporations. Good Luck with your goals
Dayum... you have a background I would be jealous of!!
But I have to be skeptical. The job market in HK kinda sucks right now. Few job openings and a lot of layoffs. I mean even HKUST's MBA program is doing rather poorly this year in terms of campus recruitment. Maybe Singapore would be better?
Also going to a HK uni for a masters? Quite a lot of smart kids who did their bachelors there pursue further education overseas rather than in HK. Prestige is very important here too and obviously as others have mentioned: top UK/US targets are preferred in HK as well. Its good to see you're open to gaining a more diverse experience but sadly I don't think CUHK is going to offer you the networking or campus recruiting you want especially since its probably the least international friendly out of the big 3. Frankly I don't really see any real advantages CUHK can offer over a top UK/US target. If you came out of MIT with a masters you would still be just as attractive if not even more so than some guy with a CUHK masters in HK alone. And hell there's always the option of working in US/UK and then transferring to HK as well. CUHK is a great school but lets face it, it can't compare to the top targets you listed.
And then there's language which is becoming increasingly important in HK. But since you want to enter S&T, language might be less important (maybe only for trading?) I'll let someone else talk about that.
So yeah. In my OPINION, I think you should stick to the US/UK target and use the brand name there to get yourself a job in asia.
If you want to stay in Hong Kong or Singapore or Asia, I think you should go to school there.
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