Would I be stupid to pass on Columbia (undergrad)

Mostly targeting consulting, maybe IB if I decide to. I have an acceptance to Columbia (probably full-price) and one to UMich Ross (in-state). Would it be ill-advised to save the money, go to Ross, and try to get to the top of the class/into the top clubs? Would I be throwing away an opportunity?

FWIW, I also prefer the lifestyle at Michigan, with the sports culture/campus feel.

 

First off, congratulations on both offers; it’s extremely fortunate to be in your current position, so massive props to you. I can only speak somewhat to Columbia having completed some coursework there, but I have friends at both schools who are extremely happy where they are. I will say, however, that undergraduate work in NYC is particularly difficult given the lack of campus and expensive day-to-day life. Furthermore, UMich-Ross is a very high-end program with (arguably) a better social life (big sports schools are a great time) and more than enough cache/resources to help place you in solid internships provided you do well while there. In all honesty, neither option is really a wrong choice from my viewpoint; that being said, obviously take my opinion lightly given that I haven’t attended either of these universities full-time.

 

Congratulations on both. Both are prestigious; both are targets. As someone who knows people at both, and who has financed his education with debt, my vote, unequivocally, would be for Columbia. The Ivy stamp is huge, and the school is smaller, meaning you will have less competition, and a better alumni to faculty ratio. The NYC location is a massive plus as well; fantastic for networking opportunities, and working during the year can be a massive benefit as well. I will also add, from a finance specific standpoint, that undergrad is more than just a means to your first job. It stays with you: private equity recruitment, MBA placement, etc. Is that to say that Michigan can’t open those doors for you? Absolutely not… it’s a fantastic school. Will Columbia open those, and others, more easily? Without question.

 

I threw monkey shit at you because I’m a clumsy fuck.

Agree 100% that OP should go to Columbia.

You also want to consider the type of people you will be surrounded by. At Columbia, the caliber of human beings far surpasses the mouth breathers at UMich who spend 4 years to learn corporate finance which is incredibly easy to learn.

UMich is not prestigious at all

 
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These comments are ridiculous. There’s so much more to college than just the job you get out of it, which some people here are so obsessed with prestige they forget.

Some of your best friends you’ll ever have for the rest of your life come from college. Your favorite memories, likely from college. You’ll be on your deathbed, and you won’t be thinking about what if I went to a marginally better school (cue the Columbia glazers).

It sounds like you like Michigan for every reason, including price, which is a massive difference, especially on a NPV basis. Michigan’s one of the best state schools and to be able to get in state pricing is a huge difference. The only school I’d say worth that price difference for an undergraduate education is Harvard.

You’ll have absolutely every opportunity to get into the best career paths from Ross. I know kids who went to top banks and PE firms post grad. If you don’t it’ll be completely on you, not your school choice. Also know kids from Columbia who went to Big4 and didn’t break into IB. There are no guarantees.

You’ll have an insanely better typical college experience at Michigan, with a much larger and diverse population to find some of your best friends, with greek life and a crazy college football atmosphere. You’ll spend your early 20s in NY for your career, no need to waste your college years there too.

If I was you, I’d go to Michigan and never think about Columbia again.

PS. I didn’t go to Michigan

 
Controversial

There are so many idiotic stretches in this post - sounds like someone is coping since they themself couldn’t go to a school like Columbia.

Columbia is better is every way. You might not have a football scene, but social life is still solid and you’re surrounded by literal geniuses. And Columbia is far more diverse than UMich. People at Columbia are doing interesting things across every discipline: engineering, finance, humanities, etc. The value of a degree from Columbia pays off in serious dividends for the rest of your life.

UMich is an overrated state school where the campus vibe is contrary to breeding talented people. And at the very least, talent not even close to the caliber of Columbia students. 

 

I don’t agree with all of the UMich hate here, it is honestly an amazing prestigious school. Coming from an NYC area background, I remember the Cornell VS Michigan debate being very real and prevalent, since people always viewed the schools as being pretty close. Now, between those two, I would choose Cornell, but I wouldn’t necessarily write OP off for choosing Michigan in that case. That being said, as great as Michigan is, Columbia is a cut above it, just like Penn and Duke are, just as Harvard, Princeton, and Yale are a cut above every other school mentioned here. That’s not to say that UMich isn’t an incredible place, with a great culture (Greek life, sports, etc.), because it is. I very much support those things, and I would encourage OP to take advantage of them by visiting his home friends as much as possible (since he’s from Michigan, he doubtlessly will know many students there). Go Columbia Blue and paint Ann Arbor red. The women will appreciate you in that scenario, trust me. 

 

Lol.

Agreed Columbia is definitely more “prestigious”.

Agreed the concentration of academic focused students there is higher cause it’s the size of a Texas high school.

Agreed it’s definitely easier to get a job in NYC, but will reiterate the anecdotal examples of the 7/11 people I personally know who did not break into IB who went to Columbia, and 5/6 people I know who went to Michigan who tried and did at EBs and BBs. Think the pool is much harder similar to recruiting from Wharton.

However I think you missed my main point of value to cost. I think the value of a Columbia degree, assuming all things equal (same job out of school essentially), is greater, but very marginally greater, than a Ross degree. In state at Michigan is like ~20k a year. Columbia is ~70k, plus living in one of the most expensive cities in the world. OP could get a marginally less prestigious degree for 1/4 of the cost and go to the exact same seat as a Columbia grad. Yeah it might not be as easy, but it’s absolutely doable, and in my opinion, worth saving ~$200k for.

And beyond just the “prestige” of the degree, I personally think my ideal college experience would be much greater and much much more fun at Michigan, but I guess that’s all personal and how much you actually care about having a personality outside of banking.

Sorry for the book. Going to touch grass.

 

Also you say engineering, humanities, arts, etc. like Michigan doesn’t have some of the best schools in the country for all of those fields. Columbia is a great school, but it’s hard to argue that it’s far and away miles better than Michigan. They’re at least within the same league, if not in the same conference.

 

if you’re not a total nerd, and you liked going to a big public high school, michigan life is objectively way better in every way (im a hyp guy btw before my fellow ivy dickheads call cope). i frankly don’t give a solitary fuck if i’m surrounded by some nerd who discovered a new chemical (unless it can make me copious amounts of money) when i cannot even stare at a girl and daydream during class because the hottest chick in my class is a 4. Different story if you’re some geek (or if you’re into 4s), and there’s nothing wrong with any of that ofc. I guess columbia may be different because of other schools nearby, but you have your whole life to chase gold digging instagram models at somewhere nowhere, no need to rush that.

 

I made a similar decision in the past (choosing a cheaper state school over a more expensive top target), and I really regret it. The opportunities that some of my friends at those schools got are just crazy compared to what was available to me. But, if you're sharp you'll be fine at Mich (fwiw I've been in MF PE from SA onwards). 

 

At an ivy (not Cornell or W thank god). From what I've seen from recruiting, you get more attention per student at Columbia both during recruiting and outside of that. I would guess that at Ross there's going to be tons of kids trying to sign up for coffee chats, interviews, etc. Also from a big fish + small pond standpoint, Columbia is better. Having a smaller but tighter alumni network is pretty helpful as well. My vote's on Columbia if the financial aid is good or if you have the means. 

 

The whole “Ivy League brand will open doors for you” is either a rapidly dying idea, or dead already.  This isn’t the 90s.  And frankly I think people push that idea to cope with their own decisions to over-invest in superficial brands.

Bottom line is that both Columbia and Ross are core schools for getting placed into IB, MBB or whatever the blue-chip business role is going to be when you graduate.  Splitting hairs on the relative prestige there is dumb.

What will matter much more is which environment will you personally succeed in?  Think about the campus environment, the distractions or lack thereof, your relative degree of introversion/extroversion in and which school fits that better, how you’ll spend your time there, and the gut level feel when you visit the campus. I’d do multiple visits, what’s another grand or two to get this decision right?

If it were me for example, it would be a very close call because a real campus is a much better setting for me than an urban one (don’t let anyone at Columbia tell you that’s not an urban campus) but OTOH I prefer the holistic education style where I can major in Econ and not be 2nd class to the undergrad b-school.  Point of that example is, it’s about the personal factors that matter to you.

 

Are you paying for everything or are your parents well off and footing all or most of the bill? If you’re paying, go to Michigan and save $100K. 
 

I went to a worse state school (free) instead of Michigan (in state rate) and don’t regret it, and Michigan is closer to Columbia than my state school was to Michigan. Granted, my goal was not megafund PE or bust. Either school will get you many shots at IB

 

Even with debt, I’d take Columbia. Without debt, Columbia 11/10 times. Michigan has the same opportunities, but a lot more people gunning for them. Put another way, both schools are strong enough to get you the same outcome, but it’s a lot easier to strike out at Michigan. Again, this is not an indictment of Michigan: it’s a fantastic place to study and awesome for recruitment. I just don’t see the environmental factor (Greek Life, parties, etc.) as being so different across these two campuses that sacrificing Columbia is worth it. Have fun in NYC, and visit home friends at Michigan, all while having the career advantages of Columbia. 

 

I know this is hugely anecdotal but I know a couple people who went to Columbia University, and they struggled to find jobs after graduating from Columbia undergrad. But if I were in your shoes, I would 100% pick Columbia over Michigan. Who you surround yourself with completely matters. 

 

Most top placements at Columbia are DEIs or nepo kids. If you are a straight male/Asian/white at Columbia, recruiting will be a lot harder than you would expect. Do a quick LinkedIn search and see it for yourself. Assuming you are socially decent and grind as a non-diverse student, you will still be able to get an offer from Barclays/Jefferies/DB/RBC. Also, it seems like the competition is getting more fierce every year. Do realize you will not likely be going to GS/JPM/MS just because you are at Columbia. I've seen 0 internship former marine (DEI) getting an interview with a simple resume drop from MS IBD while a kid with 5 referrals did not get it. People will definitely view Columbia to be more prestigious than UMich but there will also be a lot of people who will view you as an entitled kid. From what I know of, GS took two who were all diversity and three EVR/MOE/LAZ were all girls/military veterans for this recruiting cycle. Of course, there may be one or two non-diverse top placements, but they are rare. 

 

So, as a total non-diversity (but extremely socially adept), will my looks still be decent? On par with other schools? Moreover, wouldn’t my options from Ross be even worse?

Completely willing to grind/put the work in.

 
[Comment removed by mod team]
 

Years ago I faced a choice between Columbia and my strong in-state flagship (think Michigan, Berkeley, etc.) for undergrad. I had tons of friends go to the state flagship, it was comfortable and familiar, and I knew from visiting during high school that I'd have a blast there. But I chose Columbia instead for a variety of reasons (and I ended up loving my time there). Attending Columbia was lifechanging for me and I believe I made the right decision.

In careers like finance and law, prestige is very important for getting opportunities early in your career -- and these opportunities compound over time. It's true that many people get IB jobs from Ross, but all else equal it'll be a lot easier for you from Columbia. You'll be competing against fewer people, you'll likely end up at a better bank. PE firms and MBA programs will look more highly upon your application down the road (if you choose to avail those options). This is also true of law/med school admissions, residency program selection, I could go on. Unfortunately employers and institutions don't (perhaps can't) spend the time they should to properly identify talent, and instead delegate a part of that function to college admissions officers' evaluations of 17 year olds. It's not fair, but that's the reality. 

For what it's worth, the top performers I've met in my career typically did not attend "elite" undergrads, and in my recent experience Ivy grads do not perform any better than other juniors. Selecting your undergrad is a deeply personal decision, and you may have very good reasons to pick Ross. In any event, make sure to have fun in college and don't spend too much time on this website. Congratulations and best of luck to you.

 

Columbia’s a Greek life heavy school in New York City. Tons of fun to be had. And you have the benefit of personal connections to/at UMich to provide access to the environment there. A debt free Ivy League education isn’t exactly a horrible prospect. 

 

I picked Columbia for a lot of reasons -- stronger academics, the core curriculum, higher quality peers (on average of course), better career prospects, relatively modest incremental cost to my parents net of Columbia's financial aid, and last but not least, to get away from home and experience a totally new and different place as a young person.

I enjoyed Columbia for a lot of the typical reasons, including some of the above. There were some trips and academic experiences the school paid for. There's funding for a ton of stuff though you have to go looking a bit. The campus is compact but lovely, and freshmen all live on the main quad. My freshman Lit Hum professor shaped the way I read and think well over a decade later. Ultimately though what I liked most about Columbia was my friends and the memories we made together.  

On the recruiting point -- don't get me wrong, life still is no cakewalk at Columbia and recruiting is still tough. I graduated a while ago and back then it was challenging but possible to get BB/EB IB jobs if you had good grades and networked a bit with Columbia alums. Since your post mentioned consulting -- consulting was harder and required higher GPAs, major club leadership, diversity, other "hooks" -- almost like applying to undergrad a second time. MBB in general just recruited fewer undergrads and so was more selective (they do tend to hire more broadly out of MBA though).

 

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