Currently evaluating offers since I am a senior. I received an offer at an ABCD and am trying to map out what my life would look like. I find it very hard to find reliable data on trading compensation at these physical shops. Could someone please give some color on what salary progression (stock + base + bonus) looks like for an above average trader? Thank you!
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Write your own macros and go proprietary. Working for people that know less than you is not cool.
Why do you say they know less than me though?
Likely max out at 250ish all in mid career if you’re in the upper end of average. If you’re truly average you’ll cap out in the mid 150’s. Little bit simplified but at Bunge or ADM that’s pretty much what you’re looking at unless you climb the ladder. Fine places to learn but not the most lucrative places to work for most people. If you want to go into Ag I’d recommend a smaller shop where you more eat what you kill and can make some better money earlier on
Would it be easy to go to a smaller shop after a few years at ABCD? Would I even be able to go to a hedge fund? They told me their traders constantly get poached. I’m not sure I believe it because I can’t find anything on physical trading -> HF. Thank you.
Citadel is the 1 hedge fund that regularly poaches ag traders for their commodity desk. They basically reach out to every jr to mid level trader at all the ABCD’s and establish a relationship and will hire 1 person a year or so. They’re also quick to fire
Haven’t ever seen someone go to a fund besides Citadel from the ABCD I was at
This is very accurate and most people end up around 150-250k. Desk heads make can make 1-5mm, but most of them have 15+ years of experience and will stay in the seat for decades not giving it up. There’s lots of “income inequality” and the desk head will take the majority of the bonus pool for himself
It seems like most people at these places stay for eons and never leave. I guess that’s a good sign. Although 150-250 is lower than what my friends in PE are making, I feel like hours are much, much better in trading. Hopefully if I stick it out I can be head of a desk!
May I ask, how probable is it someone makes desk head? Is it a matter of just holding on till a vacancy arrives or if only the top performers get it? Because I would assume most people are probably not going to just wait so long for vacancy.
Apologies in advance if i have misunderstood anything
I have 2ish years of experience and just switched ABCD's, ADM is behind the 8 ball when it comes to talent and pay, I think they finally realize it now and are willing to pay more competitively. Cargill I have no idea what their strategy is with talent they seem to want to low ball everyone.
If you want to do Ag's...go to the Scoular's & Anderson's (ex lansing in KC) of the world. The comp there is HF-esque. True % of P&L. Guys from K-State to Iowa State to Nebraska all clearing a buck a year. Another option is something like Avere in Florida.
For learning, go LDC.
Cargill & ADM will have you eating beans and ramen for the rest of your life
If you have an EU visa, there are tons of shops in Geneva that are smaller traders in ags that pay...Gemcorp, EDF, Ameropa, Lecruer etc etc
From what I hear, I would not want to start out working in a Lansing Scoular type shop because then they'll have you cold calling every farmer in the state of Nebraska trying to build your own cross country book. I think it's probably best to start at a Cargill/ADM/Bunge, grind up the ladder for a couple years, then jump and take over a more senior role to a Gavilon/Andersons/Scoular with the % PnL comp structure.
Things are changing a bit but I’d say a lot of the skills you learn at an ABCD aren’t hugely transferable to the mid sized traders on a day to day basis. There are tons of guys every year that try to make the jump only to realize they can’t trade without a huge asset deck or the market clout of working at a massive company
Disagree with you there. If you don't want to talk to farmers, good luck understanding the basic market psychology.
If you don't understand when and why a farmer sells to the elevator or terminal, how will you ever be able to correctly position yourself trading around that very asset.
Any how, this whole business is relationship driven & if you can convince a few crusty growers to trust you, you will pick up some good skills.
Agree on the Cargill/LDC lack of transferability. It's like when an assitant coach leaves Bama and sucks it up as a head coach somewhere....it's really easy to hide your deficiencies as a trader when you have all the market intel, the balance sheet, the assets and the size to shape the market to your personal position.
Any updates to these figures in 2024?
Bump
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