Commodities physical trading vs S&T at a BB
Hey everyone,
Target grad here, Financial Markets spec. Trying to figure out my first move and genuinely stuck.
Here's my real problem: I don't know exactly what I want yet. Physical commodity trading attracts me a lot, but I'm not 100% sure. I could also see myself in S&T at a bank. The issue is that the two paths have very different levels of optionality.
If I start in S&T at a bank, I feel like I can still pivot. Do a couple of years in sales or trading, then decide -stay in banking, move to a commodity house, go to a hedge fund, whatever. The brand helps, the skills are transferable, and the network opens doors. I also know commodity desks in bank could be solution, but don't think I have lot of control on what I get offered.
If I go straight into ops at a trading house, I feel like I'm locking myself in before I even know what I want. Ops is a great way to learn the physical side, but if I realise two years in that I'd rather be in sales at a bank or on a structured products desk, does anyone actually want to hire a guy with two years of commodity ops on his resume?
That's the core question.
Anyone been in this position? Did banking first actually give you the flexibility to pivot, or did you end up siloed anyway.
Whats happening is that I have ossibility to do three offcycles. SO either I grind the three in banks to reaach BB, either I go ops, risk... in commodity house.
Do commodities S&T in Houston
Bump
Dude I'd probably take the bank offer. You can always do commodities operations later.
The people doing commodities operations are often older, and may end up doing the job for a while.
My answer would be different if it was a new grad rotation offer at BP, P66, etc.
Basically if you do commodity operations, you have to be prepared to do that 3/4/5+ years and there's no guarantee you'll get a trading desk. Rotation program is different.
Not OP but do you mind if I PM? I saw you worked your way up from scheduling to trading and wanted to see if you could give some advice.
yea
Yeah definitely, a general rule is to maximise the platform earlier in the career. Obviously there are exceptions to this
I just got offered possibility to join in bunker trading rolen not ops... should I go?
Realistically, I think it would be a poor expected value decision to go with any sort of commodity ops as your first job if that involves passing up a front office role at a decent bank.
You are basically hoping that all the right things happen across several transitions over several years at best versus having a direct path to a revenue generating role.
More interesting debate is (well established) TDP vs banking analyst role. In which case you could argue that the former is more designed for career growth and leads to high potential outcomes.
Don't pass up a front office role for operations anything. Commodities ops is usually no gurantee of a trading seat. More to the point, it seems like you are talking prospectively, and you don't have the offers in hand - so aim for commodities S&T?
I'm in the same boat in terms of trying to decide on a start. It's so obvious to me that I want to end up spec trading commodities, but I'm not sure how to do it.
But from what I've seen, both TDP's at top oil majors and FICC trading/research (Obviously commodities for the post) will always leave the door open to a spec trading seat somewhere. I think that your question would only really matter if you got both offers. If you got one, take it and don't question it too much, you'll learn a ton regardless of which it is.
However, although they will both lead to a spec trading seat in one way or another, I've seen a lot of people go from sellside roles to TDPs, but almost no one moves from support roles to finance.
I’m in a similar situation, but for internship. I have received a summer internship at a well known energy trading firm in the nordics as a quant analyst but also received a off-cycle internship at a good BB within rates sales starting in the summer and can’t do both. I’m really unsure if I want do energy trading or BB trading after uni, what is the best way to go?
Very tough decision indeed. If you want to do trading, whether energy or BB, I’d think about which internship would look better on your CV and have better trading-related outcomes. I’m not sure whether that would be quant analyst or BB rates sales. Are you STEM?
del
I disagree with others. If you have the ability to actually make it as a trader then the ops role is a fine place to start. The cream rises to the top. If you have it you will make it. People that say they actually had the talent but just never had the chance are lying to themselves about their own shortcomings.
great advice.....
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