How do you get used to the lifestyle in S&T?
Recently started full-time in S&T on the trading side, usually getting in at 6:45am and leaving the office by 6pm (desk is a little more project based than traditional vanilla trading desks). Because of the timing and getting ready, my day usually goes like this:
5:50AM - Wake up
6:45AM - In office
6:30PM - Get home
7:30PM - Finish cooking and eating dinner
10:30PM - Sleep
How do I maximize the ~3 hours I have to feel good, especially when the first few weeks of adjustment are being really hard on my body physically and mentally? Even though I'm normally fine with sleeping 7.5 hours if it's 2am-9:30am I find that the 10:30pm to 5:50am schedule gets me extremely tired by 6pm. I also have a gym membership but find little motivation to go and it isn't open until 5:30am in the morning so I can't go before work (not that I'd want to). Any tips for me?
Thanks in advance :)
Bro first 2 years at any top tier finance role and you better be eating at a calorie deficit and sneaking time between anything to do push ups, situps, and pullups. Don't eat any shitty ass carbs besides rice and potatoes. Don't consume any sugar. 1 gram of protein per body weight. You should have zero excuses for not having abdomen muscles when you're under the age of 25. Don't look like Gary from healthcare ECM who complains his hours are too long and knows every bar in town. Don't be Gary.
With regards to cooking, I would suggest either a) meal-prepping in bulk during the weekends and/or b) purchase a meal program like hellofresh (if it's within your budget). This should open up some time spent on cooking, though I can see the appeal in wanting to do it also. Maybe also consider trying to use your commute time deliberately (get some reading done, do planning for next day, responding to communications, etc).
Exercise is great for your long term health. It doesn't have to be 1-2 hour workouts, let alone everyday for now. Me personally, a 15 min cardio + 15 min basic exercises was good enough for maintenance. There were times I also just walked to work as opposed to taking the subway, but that obviously is going to vary in terms of feasibility for other people. Maybe just taking a walk at your nearby park or exploring the city allows you to unwind while getting in some steps.
Also with diet, I have generally heard plant-based meals are healthier. This is not me telling you to go full vegan, just throwing out one viable example. In fact, everyone ticks differently so you'll know yourself best. However, at a minimum, there are some basic universally agreed trends: processed foods are bad, you want to limit sodium intake, drink lots of water, etc. There's been a lot of research lately that suggest our moods are highly correlated to our microbiomes, which is obviously dictated by what we consume. I've personally found great success with intermittent fasting but YMMV.
I'd also try to maximize sleep quality. Investing in a good quality mattress is recommended. Limiting screen time (kinda hard with our line of work) so trying to minimize device exposure leading up to bedtime, black out curtains, cooled temperature room, etc. Taking magnesium/melatonin supplements help.
Eventually when your time frees up or even now, I would consider finding a hobby unrelated to work. It could be woodworking, salsa dancing, photography, you name it. But I wouldn't worry too much about that either just for the sake of it. If you find playing video games or binge watching Netflix helps you relax, by all means stick to it.
tldr - good exercise, diet, sleep habits will do wonders. It all sounds so simple yet so many people also fail to execute on it.
It's tough, I'm aware, been there but hang in there!
Great question OP. I think a lot of people on here don't give the lifestyle in S&T enough attention because most here are focused on the IB lifestyle of being on call 24/7. Sure, we get more of a routine to our days, but the 6AM-6PM grind typically involves non-stop pinging, calling, trading, communicating, ect... It is exhausting.
I maximize my 3 hours by working out immediately after I get back from work around 5pm-7pm, depending on the day. I'd like to just lay down and sleep but I've found that lifting everyday instead makes me feel better on a day-to-day basis and helps me fall asleep better, so its worth it. Do the work out. It will also give you more confidence and energy in your working hours despite being sore. Regarding diet, I want to start meal prepping but haven't committed yet. I typically grocery shop on the weekends which saves me time after work during the week. Usually eat good high protein breakfast and eat protein bars, bananas, and apples instead of leaving my desk to eat lunch. Dinner varies. I try to eat as much protein as possible, as little sugar as possible, and not overindulge on carbs or shitty processed foods. Could be a lot more disciplined in this area though.
All in all, I've really become a weekend warrior. All my errands are pretty much done on the weekends. Extracurriculars - usually done on the weekends. If I don't have much going on after my post work lift, then I give myself time to do something relaxing before bed.
It's really all about time management. I haven't perfected it yet, and likely never will, but I think being cognizant of managing properly is a huge step in the right direction, so again, great question OP.
When I was in a role like that, I didn't want it to end at the end of the day. I probably slept 4-5 hours a night. Spent at lot of evenings reading research and doing other stuff like that. But I'm not saying that's normal or common, I really don't know. I didn't really have problem staying in shape, I was on my feet a lot during the workday, and kept pretty active on the weekends. I think where it starts getting tough is when you have to do a lot of entertaining in the evenings. Then you get to friday, and the week was like a blur. I don't know if that helps, but maybe what I'm saying is, don't worry so much, just get into it and you'll figure it out, it's a transition into working life, but it's not so bad.
When I first started, I was in a role that required me to get to the office by 6am, and I would leave around 530 or 6pm. It sucked for exactly the reasons you have outlined; it's not really a "normal" schedule. I'll be honest, I never really got used to it. I eventually moved to a desk where I got in around your schedule and then as I got more senior, it moved further back to around 730-8am and I'd leave around 5pm. That felt way more "normal". I imagine you will be able to come in later as you move up the ranks.
Try to get to the gym immediately after work for 30 mins or an hour. If your goal is to just get fit, it should be pretty easy to fit something in. As difficult as it is, try to get to sleep at the same time every night. I found that the less than 7 hour mark was where I would feel groggy. On weekends, try to keep a similar schedule.
Welcome to S&T my friend, just wait until you start going out 1-2 night a week for work and traveling to 3-4 days a month to see clients and then tell me how you feel. Here is what I found worked for me when I was young and single.
1. I almost never went out on Friday night, usually would just be too tired from being out Thursday night for work that I was just going through the motions being out Friday night so I just decided to skip it. Would hit the gym, eat and go to bed by 9 most Friday nights (I know lame but I was never really a huge partier). I also could never sleep in either so would be up around 8 most Saturdays and would get a workout and a nap in by the time most of my friends were just waking up from their hangovers and would be ready to go on Saturdays. The one thing I would do is dates on Friday, could usually get a workout in and then a quick nap before doing a later dinner or drinks. Usually did not end up drinking as much on dates as I would on a regular night out with friends so would not feel as bad. Also rarely would only go out on Sunday until after I worked out, so I was usually not at the bar until the 4pm NFL games or whatever.
2. If you have a work night out make that your night to see friends during the week. Most work events end around 10pm as the senior guys and the clients have to get back to their families in the burbs. If friends were out I would always try to meet up after, but if they were out a different night I would usually skip out on it.
3. If you have a free night make sure to hit the gym, easy to skip when you have been out late the night before but you will feel so much better if you go. Find a buddy to hold you accountable or do classes for the extra motivation. I would also recommend a gym with a steam and sauna, will help you sweat out the toxins. Spending money on your health is the most valuable investment you can make so don't feel bad about doing what you need to do in order to make yourself eat healthy and workout.
I know I'm making this sounds like a total grind, but its not. Your body will adapt and once you have junior people you will get to sleep in an extra 30 min when you need it after a big night out, late flight back from a client meeting, or my current situation where my kids keep me up all night.
Wait...so you probably wouldn't go to bed until like 2am or later on these nights?? How did you manage to not feel like death at 6am the next morning at work? Whenever I have client events, my sleep already suffers considerably with the combination of alcohol and being out later than usual - I can't imagine going out with friends afterwards on top of that!
There were some 2-4am nights mixed in there, but a large majority of them were done by 1am. It was usually wrap up the client thing around 10 and be with friends by 10:30 and home by 12:30-1. Kept and made a lot of friends by putting in the effort to make those weekday nights out. Personally I have never been a big sleeper and your body will get used to running on little sleep.
Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences. Are nights out entertaining common for junior/senior traders too or is that mostly for sales roles?
Everybody entertains, varies by desk and by firm but this is a people business and going out is part of it.
I think we are really asking is how to keep healthy with limited time for workout and food prep. I have been struggling with this myself.Exercise- I have been focusing on kettlebell and HIIT workouts. I enjoy going to the gym but that clearly requires a bigger time commitment and I'm trying to be more efficient with home workouts. I start my morning off with running hill sprints and doing bike sprints- 30 seconds on 30 seconds off. I'm trying to ramp up my VO2 max and get my heart rate up to peak and then bring it back down and repeat and 30 second increments. This is because my family has a history of heart disease.Diet-I am experimenting with eating just one or two meals a day and I am on a wholefood plant based diet, I have a number of go to meals that I keep in the office such as Huel and whole rolled oats that I can microwave. I also bring packets of raw tempeh to the office or cans of beans for eating when things get busy.Keen to hear what others are doing. I haven't got this figured out at all.
Keep grinding your VO2 max (look into zone 2), look into statins, and you’ll essentially eliminate your risk of cardiovascular disease. Look up Peter Attia for more clairty
Cardiovascular/Aerobic exercises are key. I limit my meat/dairy consumption. If you can keep up a consistent 15-30 minutes of cardio and add some weights, you are golden.
My schedule is usually 6am-6/7pm M-F. I do quick home workouts but it pays off. 30 minutes of walking/light run daily.
Diet is tough to maintain, but I do eat light meals for lunch (mostly salads/greens), and a small dinner/snack. So far this has paid off.
I don't work in S&T, but I would recommend getting up even earlier. I am normally up by 4:30am each day and in the office around 9:00am, so clearly no need from work to get up that early. My motivation for doing so is that I have time in the morning to do the things I enjoy. I view my time as a commodity and fortunately, I am a morning person, so my most valuable time is first thing when I wake up. I use the 3ish hours or so prior to my morning routine to do the things I like. Typically it's going on a walk/run, working out, catching up on news I am truly interested in, planning my day. I don't think I'll ever move away from this pattern because the solitude and knowing you're awake when no one else is provide me a feeling that I can't describe.
Nice brother
Make sure you eat healthy, drink plenty of water, etc. This makes a big impact on your energy. Your post was very relatable. If you can, find a way to energize yourself mid-day, even if it’s just taking a short walk to pick up your food in the early afternoon.
At the time, this felt like a pretty brutal lifestyle, but I later switched to more of a banking team and I wished everyday that I could have the 7am-6pm with no weekend work back. Overall it is a pretty nice pay for the lifestyle.
Might be a stupid question but isn't it the case in S&T bathroom breaks are discouraged, especially in "market-focused" teams? How do you drink lots of water then?
Pee in a jug
I swear every time I take a shit I sit down and immediately have bid get hit or offer lifted. Been shitting more often
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