Hi everyone, new here and looking for some advice on how to break into the front office. To give you my background, I have a bachelors degree in finance from a non target and have been working in middle office at a BB for the past three years (Buffalo, NY office). I am also enrolled in the University at Buffalo evening MBA program and will have 2/3 years completed next month. I interviewed internally for the S&T program this year and didn't receive an offer. My plan is to go for the program again next year but I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket. I plan on taking the Series 7 this summer and am currently looking into transferring my MBA credits to Baruch and trying to get my current middle office role moved to NYC so I can sit on the trading floor. Any additional recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
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network
definitely doing as much networking as I can
Any other advice out there?
Don't focus only on BB, there should be firms that are willing to take on junior staff that have relevant experience. Take a look at William Blaire, I know for a fact that they hire operations to equity research associates. The downside is that the window closes fast, these firms generally look for entry level positions and it'll be like 1-3 years relevant experience. So if you're past that, it could be hard, but if you network properly, you'll be fine.
I'm definitely willing to go outside of BB, but i've been told that my best short is to go for the S&T program at my current employer again. I'll take a look at WB. As far as the MBA goes, do you think it would put me in a better spot if I transferred to a school in NYC? My current program has a career resource center and the director of it is a former energy trader. I'm trying to line up a meeting with her to discuss my options and get her opinion.
What is your current role in? Treasury? FP&A?
I am a desk assistant for US cash and ADR crossbook flow.
Not possible. Best bet is to go for the MBA or do the CFA or something. Or learn programming and go quanty.
what? MO to FO still happens... Definitely some more animosity after the Kerviel scandal, but these transfers still exist
It was 2005. Back in those times an illegal could join GS.
The only person I know of who made the shift was this girl from my uni who joined CS in an MO role. She did the CFA and immediately was transferred to Delta One products.
A guy in my office went from MO to FO, I think he had completed the L1 CFA when he moved FO, it's definitely possible if you get on well with people in FO, and CFA would be a big plus.
I made the move from MO to FO recently through a similar program at my BB (although I'm based in NYC). Tough to be in Buffalo as you have little to no networking opportunities with senior people in the business, so the transition to NY may be worth it but also a big gamble. CFA > MBA in terms of putting an acronym on your name that will impress people, but at the end of the day neither guarantee anything. It all comes down to working hard in your current role going above and beyond your MO duties to make the lives easier of the people you support, impressing the right people, and having senior traders/salespeople who would be willing to sponsor you through the next application process.
As many have said, it comes down to networking. You need to have FO salespeople who know you and are willing to go to bat for you. You'll need to be in close contact with them and know a few personally. Networking is everything when it comes to making the jump. Also don't be afraid to look externally - I moved from a back office role to a ops/trading seat at a small HF, and then to trading at a large HF.
Wow. That's quite the jump. How long did the transition take?
-2.5 years in the back office -2 years at $300M HF managing ops/trading -Now at top 5 L/S equity HF
Very unconventional route but it can be done. The most important part is excelling at your job and forming a great network.
You are over thinking it with the MBA... a few tips
1) make sure the desk ACTUALLY likes you... make normal conversation 2) Get face time.. which in your case seems to be a bit of a challenge 3) If you've already interviewed and got denied, I think the struggle is going to be a lot harder 4) Go external 5) TRY SALES
Currently work at a BB on the desk and a decent amount of my traders/sales guys came from trading assistant/marketing assistant type rolls, so it definitely happens.
The desks definitely do like me, so I have that going for me. When i was interviewing for the program I had multiple MDs and Directors emailing HR on my behalf. I get down to the NYC office a few times a year to get face time. By going external, do you mean going for similar programs at other banks? Wouldn't that be a more difficult move? and what do you mean by trying sales?
Thanks
Do not get discouraged but I will say this: Sales and Trading is terribly hard to navigate especially coming from the Middle Office. I would really try to learn as much as possible about S&T first before you interview, especially if your only point of reference is on the cash desk, which (anything cash-related) you probably do not want to be anyways.
pm me if you want
I work at a BB and there are 4 traders I'm aware of just in my department who have moved from trade support to trading in the last 3 years or so.
I just made the move without networking : )
what matters: 1) Transferrable skills: If the job you do involving with trader/trading everyday, it would be a fair chance. 2) Desire: you can show by CFA or related. I did FRM. Highly recommended. Passed 2 levels in one shot and got certificate. Whole process finished in less than 2 months. 3) timing and opportunities.
Hope this can help!
Does having a CFA help? I just got a scholarship for it from my school for LV 1 so am planning on giving it since I'm getting it relatively cheap.
A lot of posts on this forum on the other hand says having a CFA might be counter intuitive to being recruited as a trader.
What would your view be on it.
I dont know whether I will be the right person to answer the question and I also think its too general to answer CFA works or not.
My 2 cents, it depends on your background and how you leverage with it. Nothing guarantee a job/ an interview. But if you do right thing based on your background, it creates the chance.
e.g. if you are from a non-finance background(Lets assume a math or tech background). CFA will show your interest in finance. In this case it helps to get an interview.
But if you are originally from a FinEng or FinMath(lots of my friends), you have to show more by side biz. Like part time working at a small funds building strategy or even invest yourself. I have 2 friends made the move from those experiences.
I dont think CFA hurt but also dont think it is determinant. However, when it comes to interview process, how you understand market and how you justify your reason with your experience/transferrable skills become crucial.
Would like to hear update from OP. Were you able to find a way into S&T and if so how did you go about it?
I ended up staying in my middle office trade support role and got the opportunity to go down to NY for the analyst program super day last month. I received an offer last week and will be starting in July. Thanks everyone for their advice!
hard but not impossible
I hate to break it to you, but no one out of the UB MBA program breaks into the Front office through their OCR and career services.
If you look at the placement stats, their MBA graduates on average go onto make 60k and very few break into big banks or consultancy firms.
There only like 2-3 major firms that actually come to UB to recruit and even then they only take a couple of students each.
Getting a CFA and building work experience on your own will definitely help but don't expect a UB MBA to get you in the front office.
Baruch will be much better for placements, you can cut your losses for the credits or just finish and network like crazy and get the CFA.
You're going to get a million different answers but I can relate.
I was in the MO for about 2 years at a mid-sized AM firm (300B AUM). Was lucky enough to become a junior on our HY desk. I'm still very new to my role but there are few things that I think can help:
Network... pretty obvious. Because of my MO role I worked with some of our traders daily. Get to know people outside of your domain and be your natural self.
Get your series 7/66... most places require this. Helps to have prior to applying. Also, it's pretty inexpensive when you compare it to your bar tabs after a night out.
Start the CFA if you have the cash. Shows focus, drive, etc. Level 1 isn't too difficult.
Start to learn programming (python)
Express interest in MBA. Depends on the firm, group, etc but expressing interest will show you are thinking about your professional future.
MO to FO Trading... Is this too aggressive (Originally Posted: 07/19/2016)
Hi guys,
I wanted to get some input here, I'm currently in my mid 20s working in the middle office of a very large (100bn+) buy side asset manager in their regional NYC office. I'm one of two people working on confirms/settlements of all products (FI/EQ/FX/IRS/repo), cash and position management, as well as broker relations/onboarding with our trading counterparts.
I've been here for almost 2 years and looking to make the jump over to one of the desks (FI). Currently, there are no open spots but there should be a few in the next year or so and I'm trying to position myself for when that happens.
Here's my current dilemma: I want to talk to the regional Head of trading about trying to take on some more relevant work to help with this move. To give a bit of background, I already know he's agreeable to me working for him as he's (drunkenly lol) asked me about in the past.
My current idea is to try and push for a trading assistant type position, which doesn't exist at the moment. Our firm just went live with a new order entry system, which has been a disaster and has caused a ton of operational issues that are swamping some of the traders (and as a result, me as well). I'll offer go help book tickets, work their sheets etc while I learn more about the business.
The traders have actually requested the firm hire such a person, but the top global head of trading thought that no one would actually want to take such a job (I'm not sure why he thinks this)
My question is that would it be out of line to volunteer myself for a position that doesn't exist? I think it would be a win win for both my career development, as well as for both trading and ops as a lot of our current problems stem from issues in the order management system. However, the last thing I want to do is step on toes or comprise my current position.
Thanks for your input
On Monday go straight to the Global head of trading and say listen, this role you were talking about, I think i'd be the perfect fit for such a role because of X and Y. I think this will benefit both of us because of A and B. Let me know if I can be of resource to you in this capacity.
Go to HR as soon as possible and trigger the internal transfer procedure. Tell her how you can match your strength to the requirement. How you can outshine the external candidates. Do not go straight to the other division. That may work but not professional.
I fortunately transferred from back office to trading desk at the end of last year. I used the above way.
How can HR even help here if there is no open requisition? I would bring up the discussion with the head of trading.
Yeah this definitely needs to go through trading, I just wanted to double check that I wasn't doing anything out of line by bringing this up.
I did the same thing 10 years ago. It worked for me and should work for you. If the head of trading indicates they need a TA, then go to your MO supervisor and let them know you would like to put in for the transfer. They will understand. If you put in for the opening without discussing with them first, they may not appreciate it.
Definitely mention this to your current boss...position it along the lines that "I've noticed there is a major roadblock because of the new order entry system, and I have some ideas to help sort it out. Just wanted to give you a heads up that I'm talking to some friends in trading to see if I can help fix the issues."
That way you've looped your boss in without asking any permission to do anything. If you want to be even more conservative, mention that trading (be ambiguous) has asked for your help in sorting out the problem. Most MO managers will say well if trading asked for it then you should help out.
One point of caution, there are some MO managers that are territorial because they don't want to see a subordinate moved up into a FO position that they won't ever attain themselves...I've seen it happen before. Make sure to know your boss and your office politics/HR rules before making any moves. I saw an associate in MO at GS go around her boss and get an offer on the desk they supported, but the boss was able to get her shot down due to the way she handled it. As punishment, they told her to wait a year and then the move would happen, but she was gone well before that ever happened, and not at her choosing.
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