Physical Refined Products Trading
Do we have any physical refined products traders floating around on this board? Gasoline in particular and in New York Harbor to be even more precise. If you do trade this market or are involved in any way, what are your thoughts on this market and its long term prospects in regards to someone getting looking to get into this space? Who are the best traders in this market and will the volumes pick up at all in the future?
annnnnnnnnndddddddddddddddddddd.....nothing at all? better luck next time i guess
It's an excellent mkt and it is growing. We had some major refineries shut down in PADD 1 recently which will bring volatility to the mkt come gasoline season. Unlike NG there are bottlenecks in the physical world which will bring more opprotunities. Best refined traders are prob glencore or vitol. Volumes will increase on distillates but not in gasoline. Gasoline demand sucks and is only at 8 MM Bbl/D. The future of north america will rely on diesel not gasoline. As light crude volumes dissapate and refinery configs get more complex the world's thirst for heavy/sour crude grows(due to lower input costs and higher distillate yield). PM me for specific questions.
Last year was a very very good year for most products desks. Volumes do not need to increase, there is so many arbs available just need to chase them down. All big boys did well. It is a very relationship business.
Marcellus, what do you mean that trading products (gasoline/distillates) in NYH/Gulf Coast is very much a relationship game?
Products trading in general be it those regions or other areas worldwide. Is based a lot more on one-off or special case contracts. You need to have size, which is why all the big boys do well. You need to also know the right people.
Have you read "King of Oil" a lot of what is described early days of Crude trading, is how things are done in the products world right now still.
While Power, Natty, Crude, etc..has standarized markets, people playing by same rules, most people using the screen, automized systems so on.
Hope that helps,
One of the best gas traders left vitol few years back. I heard he was one of the best. Nyh is a good market
Refined Products Trading (Originally Posted: 11/02/2010)
Anyone have any good resources to learning the fundamentals of how these markets trade? I am looking to learn the physcial aspects of them and what is relevant in economic terms. Thanks
Try the book "Energy Trading and Investing". It's about $40 on amazon
Actually, Oil 101 by Downey is much better for learning about refined products and learning about the physical aspects. Energy Trading and Investing by Edwards is a solid resource that covers all the energy markets (Oil, Gas, Coal, Power), but it's strength is the level of detail that goes into the power market and not oil. If you can only get one book, make sure it is Oil 101, although both books are interesting reads.
I really enjoyed energy trading and investing. The author has a stellar track record. I'll be sure to look into oil 101
It is a denser read than Energy Trading and Investing, but no one can deny the level of detail and quality that went into the book. I think it has something like 35 5 star reviews and nothing else on Amazon.
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