pre-tradng path
several ?S regarding planning my career path.
some breif background- teenager, finished HS stuff 2 years ahead, spending my 2 gap years on 1. entering college 1 year ahead , 2. analyst at a botique IB for a year (offer extended and accepted already)[S&T]
ok. college. ( i know this is frequently asked and shouldve used search, sorry) i have decided i will study math; good for quant trading and i have a genuine passion in math, i know i will prob get a PHD in it one day. i sent in applications for oxford, LSE , all the ivies, plus stanford, and duke.
my current top choice is oxford, im curious how my choices weigh, both in an academic sense, and also how finance ppl perceive it. laymen prestige is irrelevent.
also what specific math classes should i take?(prep for a trader) i notice UK has a more rigid set ciriculum, wheras US is salad bar style.
What level of education is suitable to be say a HF trader at a very quantitative fund? is it better to get a masters and work? or get a phd first?
i noticed a perk about oxford math.. the BA is 3 years ( i know us can be 3 years too, but theyr so damm stingy on giving out credit) and the masters is 1 year.. whole set =4 years ; if u enroll in the BA, u dont have to re-apply for the masters, giving me alot more time for padding resume, networking, overall destressing etc. or is the no-apply masters in math a bad plan? they have other 1 year math courses like masters in financial mathematics.. how do those compare?
After studies plan? theres alot of quant natured ppl.. in IT and that whole bunch trying to break into finance, many of them have experience already? how can a recent grad seperate himself from them?
i noticed Citadel, and a bunch of other HF recruit at undergrad targets( i will get into target for sure) but do they do it at EU, and UK? ( since im going for oxford)they seem to be only visiting ivies
what internships should i look for while in college? i know i will have no problem getting a BB IB summer, since i will have had a year of experience already, should i go for HF summer internship? do they even offer that? as far as i know they like readily deployable ppl, not students they have to train.
btw im not sure of what asset class i want to trade, if that makes any difference in preparation, is there a site i can see a break down of how trading different asset clases compare? work nature, how quant it is, etc.
thanks in advance
You mentioned a phd in math. Definately keep that in mind when choosing your classes. If you want acceptance into any quant phd (math, finance, econ, statistics) program, you'll need to take the "hard" math classes: real analysis, complex analysis, abstract algebra, etc...
You might find that you aren't good with proofs. Math is one of those subjects that you just not be able to get. Some people, smart, just dont get math. Make sure that you keep your undergrad classes as theoretical as possible if you're thinking a phd. (i.e., if you want a phd in statistics, its more important to learn proof-based mathematics than to take extra classes on time series and stuff like that.) If you want an econ phd, proofs arent as important, but make sure you squeeze in the math classes. also, know that "math math" is not very applicable to the real world as you may think, proving pointclaire's conjecture doesnt translate well over to exploiting market inefficiencies. something like stats or econ might.
anyway, i think having your head thinking about this stuff is great. more power to you.
OH OH OH, make sure to realize also that masters programs cost money and phd programs pay you. (well, at my department (ucla), some masters students get teaching gigs or programming gigs)
okay, i gotta stop typing cuz i'm getting pretty strung out on this ritalin shit. yah, def go to a psychiatrist and get uppers (ritalin, dexedrine, adderall, etc...) cuz that shit will help you with math. before you bitch, just look at paul erdos. he took amphetamines every day and he did some amazing things.
oh, my erdos number is 4. so listen to what i say. lol
dont use marijuana because it makes you loose that moneylust
yeah i didnt mean those with finance experience lol, was refering to those who worked as engineers, in high tech stuff , totaly unrelated to trading.. i see alot of ppl like that asking about breaking into finance
yeah i realized that , newayz i prob wont be getting the PHD until i retire, or at least am out of my prime; and real/complex analysis is considered hard? =p
thanks, ill look into those when time comesbro, a phd is training to do research. it's also not a joke, either. it takes 6 years full time. to survive a phd you need to be in your prime. a phd is not a joke. no university is going to pay for some 40 year old to do a phd for shits and giggles.
is real analysis hard? if you're still in high school, you cant even imagine how hard. math at the upper levels is not plug and chug. math is a whole different ballgame. just because you did well in calculus doesnt mean you'll be able to do proofs.
yeah, Rudin's PMA text or the sequence in Stein and Shakarchi is intended for the most able students- the level of abstract reasoning far exceeds what one would need for a typical trading job-
in terms of what one needs for graduate study in math, probably exposure to Rudin in a two semester course, Ahlfors in complex, Artin in algebra and Munkres' topology. Most PhD applicants have already taken quite a few graduate math classes (like Algebraic Topology with the Hatcher text or PDEs at the level of LC Evans) and have an REU or even two on their CVs...
If you're more interested in quant trading, a numerical methods class and exposure to C++ would be best- I found Lloyd Trefethen's Spectral methods in Matlab to be really useful and the Daniel Duffy and Mark Joshi C++ books are second to none... the Glasserman Monte Carlo book and Karatzas/Shreve are standard fare for practicing quants, but I think Marek Capinski's Measure, Integral and Probability offers a better introduction to the classical results and has a very lucid style.
Maybe I am in the minority but if you want to get a PhD in math get it because you love mathematics not because you want to be a quant 10 years down the road. Just seems to take away from the essence of the subject. If you want to get into a quant fund or quant-focused prop shop after UG major in Math/CS and take lots of programming and probability classes. A PhD in mathematics does not equal doing well in undergrad level math courses. It is hard, harder than you could ever imagine (or me).
Is a PhD in math even required to be a good quant? I thought you could do well with an masters in financial engineering or mathematical finance. I don't see how doing a thesis on Banach space theory correlates with successfully trading derivatives or whatever.
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i know that math at a very high level isnt compatible with trading..
i said that i had a GENUINE PASSION for math, and plan to get the PHD AFTER my trading career. my desire to go into math has NOTHING to do with trading. i love them both, though
i can fathom the rigor or math, and know that how well one does in UG math is no indicator of how theyll perform in PHD math; thing is i find math is beautiful, and i will persue it deeply one day, enuf said.
imo i dont care about getting paid for teaching gigs, ill pay them if nething; i know 40 is a bit too old, but theyll prob consider u if u have the background, and also have been working the whole time in a math and programming related job right? hopefully.Perhaps you need a stronger passion for English.
well played, messi. well played.
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