Turning Down GS S&T for...

man I have been in exactly the same situation with two BBs. I haven't signed yet but 99% sure I'll be signing @ the place where I liked the people.

Go with GS i mean comeon Its GS, itll help you in the long run

Until you get screwed with no FT offer, as some people seem to have experienced recently here.

A few bits of important information to keep in mind: GS is vastly more prestigious. Vastly.

GS has a shitty offer rate, especially among S&T analysts (though, honestly, S&T rates tend to be lower than the 85-95% rate in IBD). You'll be trading for prestige at the expense of better odds of having a job with people you end up really liking.

At the same time, a summer at GS (given the low offer rate) is still great resume fodder and should help your full-time process.

If you're not a Junior (that is, you have chances for other summer positions in the future) definitely take GS. If you're a Junior (awfully early to have summer offers already, eh?) then the decision isn't as clear.

remember them making half their analyst class into ops too

...at least from a UK perspective, DB is an excellent house for credit. It is pretty important to feel comfortable with the people you will be working with as it may help you make a better impression and nail down an offer. Over here GS is obviously prestigious but I don't think it has the same mythical sway as in America. If it's marginal or you liked the DB people only a bit more then go with GS, but if you really feel strongly about the people you met, how you'd fit in and your chances of getting a full time offer then consider DB.

at the end of the day you have to be happy and comfortable at work....the thing is its a summer analyst position if you hate db or gs you can always go to another bb for FT...remember it only 10 weeks of your life...you should talk to friends of yours that have had SA positions at both banks see what program will be better for you....also if you are not sure where in S&T you would fit then go for the program that offers rotations(more exposure) and if they both offer rotations go with your gut.

best of luck

thanks all for your comments. i agree that who you're around is the most important. but isn't DB fixed income trading supposed to be on par with gs/ms/lb (the traditional big 3)?

Honestly if you're going to choose DB over Goldman, more power to you. However, you're not going to be able to justify it by telling youself DBs Fixed Income group is on par with GS. Personally, I think you're making a mistake. Take the GS summer and if you don't like the people you have the option of switching to any BB you want. Once you accept the DB offer, leveraging that back up to GS isn't nearly as easy. As an above poster said, GS is VASTLY more prestigious and will open up a lot more doors.

Congrats on the offers though.

Disagree with nystateofmind 100%

Are you even working yet or still or student, I have a hard time believing anyone actually working would make a comment like that.

post what you think is the difference between GS and DB fixed income?

Do you know their relative balance sheet strengths? Do you know their Tier 1, 2, & 3 ratios? Can you name their top 10 clients and how much of their business they represent? Have you worked at both places or do you know the personalities of the people involved?

If the answer to any of these basic questions is no then you can't possibly have a clue what you're talking about.

Prestige? Pah! People make the franchise, not the other way around.

although DB might have a great fixed income brand in London they operate with far more people than GS, meaning the proportion of business seen by one individual trader/salesperson etc. is much smaller. Just look at comp per employee..

look at these bonus pool numbers compared to size of the banks..

http://news.hereisthecity.com/news/business_news/7208.cntns

although it doesn't show db

but that's hard to tell because what amount of employees do those numbers refer to? banks like JPM are huge, but how many employees are actually considered in the investment bank? places like GS are just investment bank.

Definitely go where you like the people. Someone I know at my school turned down GS for RBS Greenwich. RBS gave him $20 milllion to trade Forex but GS capped him at $1 million, and he likes the people at RBS a lot.

I know for a fact that Lehman and DB hire nearly exclusively from their summer analyst pool for sales and trading. GS and DB are good trading firms. People knock DB because of its horrible, balance sheet heavy banking arm. Pick the one that has the program and the people you like. I am pretty sure GS may hire you directly to the desk you intern on, while DB hires you into a rotational program. Things like these are a big consideration

If your offer is in Asia, choose DB. If it's in the US, then choose Goldman. Either way, both banks are great, and you can't go wrong with either of them

godofsmallthings, why do you say that? GS is not bad in Asia

I just dont understand how people can say go with GS. What you lose in prestige or "advantage"/salary etc. you obviously gain in being HAPPY. And isn't the second most important thing of a job to be happy (first being money/exit opps since it's technically one in the same).

And as others have said, S&T success is entirely dependant on the employees not the name. (and the only argument is those at GS would possibly be better traders).

When looking at GS vs. DB in S&T, you are best served by figuring out what product you want to be in because despite its prestige, GS does suck at some stuff and DB is extremely strong at some stuff.  By S&T earnings, GS has been #1 and DB has been #2 globally for the past three or four years, so while GS clearly has the best rep on the street, you can't go wrong in S&T at either firm.  That being said, this is what firm I think is stronger in each area:

Cash equity: GS

Equity derivs: GS

Credit: DB

Rates: DB

Commodities: GS!!!! (if you actually strip out commodities from GS's S&T earnings, DB comes out ahead in 2006)

FX: DB

It's also important to realize that DB's true strength is in Europe (where it's dominant in a lot of products) whereas GS is strong everywhere.

Finally, as for summer offers, DB is known to give offers to a much higher % of people than GS.  As a result, DB doesn't do full time recruiting in S&T anymore.  Also, unlike GS, DB has a rotational program for full time, which can come in handy in a shitty market.

Feel free to PM me for more insight on either place.

I know plenty of people who went with other firms for S&T and not GS

so say a person gets DB offer and GS offer, takes DB, but doesnt get an full time offer back, but applies to GS for full time, will GS be like well this kid rejected us last time, we're not going to interview him/her?

i've heard that DB is better than GS in FICC

and at the end of the day--what's more important to you... prestige or a great work environment/ppl?