Big4 Corpfin vs BB PWM
Which is better for an internship after sophomore year?
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BIg 4 Corp Fin
how hard is it to get into big 4 corp fin? ive heard its very competitive, but i want to hear what ppl on the board think
It's a pretty competitve internship to get. Off the top of my head I can think of only one guy who had one - he's at bear stearns now.
Actually, his buddy had one too - his buddy is at a BB, not suer which one though.
Is a Big 4 Corporate Finance internship different than a Big 4 accounting internship? I'm assuming so. How much more competitive is Corp Fin? Does every big 4 have a corp finance division? Sorry for my ignorance, just curious. Also, is a finance major required?
Big4 Corpfin = Work harder for same pay as everyone else in Big4
Wow, is it that bad?
Big 4 (whether it's advisory, corp fin, tax) does not work that way. The base pay is decent coming out of undergrad but no way in hell are they paying $20k bonus to someone right out of school. The salary and bonus structure is very rigid and there is not much wiggle room even for the top staff employees. In fact in two of the 4 that I have intimate knowledge of, there is no bonus for first year. I qualify this by saying that I spent 3 yrs in one of those groups.
its probably not the best job, but im trying to see the value an internship with big 4 corp fin would add when trying to work for a BB.
Corporate Finance vs PMW as a sophomore? (Originally Posted: 01/29/2013)
I am a sophomore at a non target and received an offer in corporate finance at a F500. Ultimately, I want to do investment banking but I have not received any offers yet. As of now I am cold calling firms MM and Boutiques. That being said lets say that I am not successful with cold calling then should I also apply to PMW? Or is the corporate finance internship good?
CF>PWM. Everyone and their mother has an ML/MSSB PWM internship on their resume. Keep calling the banks, but take the CF internship if you don't have IBD by the time the deadline hits. It's good experience for a sophomore.
I am non-target did F500 financial internship sophomore year and have gotten multiple first rounds with MM and BB IBD's nothing landed yet but it has been a good experience on my resume.
Corporate Finance > PWM 99% of the time if you goal is IBD, given its actually a corporate finance role and not something like an accounts payable intern at a family business.
Great thank you for the response.
Unless PWM is GS or JPM then I would go with CF for sure.
Any F500 companies that are keen to sophomores in finance roles? I don't fee like lying about my graduation date (I am junior credit wise technically b/c of AP credit but I'm gonna double major) due to ethical reasons.
The company I had applied for is a top 5 pharmaceutical company in US (revenue wise), but the deadline has already passed. PM me more more info.
PWM or corporate finance (Originally Posted: 08/17/2013)
I have an offer to be a financial analyst at a growing telecom company. I currently work for 2 financial advisors that manage about 650-700 million bucks for individuals. Do I stay and dial for dollars and eventually buy into the practice or ditch it and go into a corporate finance role. Doing the CFA either way.
What is the best for b school?
At lower levels, yes
I think for b school, additional exp in CF in addition to your current exp in PWM might be good. Also, that experience combo might make you more marketable post bschool (compared to PWM only).
Just my $0.02
Thanks, my background is finance undergrad from non target where I was an athlete. I sold insurance then did a 6 month internship with a life insurance company inside the investments department working with the company's general account investments. That led to my current role and caused me to be recruited for this CF role. I either want to work in CF or in investment analysis to portfolio management (non sales). I want to use my CFA in practice when i achieve it and not as a marketing tool.
Is the telecom company F500 or at least highly visible? If so I'd go that route. Dialing for sales probably isn't going to get you into a top MBA program. Additionally, it'll help if you do something substantial on the side. Start a nonprofit or business, or do something that makes you stand out from the applicant pool.
I don't really know what you do at your current job with the info given, but if it is what it sounds like, I don't think your chances at a decent MBA are that good. I'm definitely no expert, just trying to offer some common sense advice.
Thanks for the input. No it's not F500, but it is visible. At my current role I work for a CFA that runs his practice through a regional firm. He has 2 proprietary equity models that I collect performance data on as well as trade on a block trading platform for 250 discretionary accounts. I do some client contact and solicitation, and I reinvest some of clients bond money as bonds mature. It's not your typical mutual fund peddler, but I still am not running technical or fundamental analysis on current or potential holdings like I did at the life insurance internship. I feel like the FA route is as good as it gets going that route. I'd have the opportunity to buy the book 10-20 years from now and collect 7 figures asking as he doesn't get hit by the per verbal bus between now and then.
My career goal would be to work my way up the CF ladder or get into a more technical finance role. I want to get the best possible MBA regardless of staying or jumping. I hope that gives a better picture.
Definitely a better picture. A couple things to keep in mind here (and I'm saying this as someone who has done a lot of research and gotten a lot of anecdotal information, I don't know any of this first-hand):
1) Keep in mind corpfin doesn't have huge payouts like your current opportunity has the potential for. Working your way up the corporate ladder is extremely difficult, but coming in with a top MBA will help a lot.
2) Make sure you know what companies you want to work for and target MBA programs where those companies recruit. A top 10 MBA will get you anywhere. A top ~25 MBA will get you close to anywhere, but you'll have to work for it. Regional MBAs work for companies within that region. Just make sure you perform exceptionally, get internships, network your ass off, etc.
3) MANY corporate finance roles are accounting-related. There are a lot more accounting-focused positions than finance-focused positions, so make sure you know what position/groups you want to apply for.
4) An MBA is kind of your last chance to switch your career track. If you really want to do IA/PM more than corpfin, go for it now. You probably won't get the chance again. If you do get the IA/PM position you want, you'll likely be able to switch to a corpfin position at a later point (I'm not exactly sure how that would work and what positions you'd be looked at for). Going the other way doesn't work nearly as well until later in your career when you have a BSD.
Last piece of advice: start doing something outside of work. Like right now. I'd hold off on applying for an MBA until 2015 and apply in the first admissions round. That gives you the best shot at admissions for most schools. This gives you time to STUDY YOUR ASS OFF for the GMAT (while the scores are by no means end-all, be-all, having a score in the proper range is a checkmark off the list). It also gives you time to get involved in something outside of work. If you can put an AVERAGE of 10 hours/week into something (volunteering with an organization and building a reputation with them, starting a small business, etc), it'll look good for you.
Hope that helps some, maybe one of the CF guys will swing through and give you some more advice. If you're really more interested in investment analysis/portfolio management, I'd go to the Asset Management forum and see what you need to do to break in.
My biggest fear is that my current role is not going to be relevant to anything than eventual potential take over of the practice. Another problem is that it is very low pay currently. 60+ hours a week of admin grunt work with the occasional Aaa bond buying. I just don't see that getting me into an analyst program. The CF analyst on the other hand is going to involve analyzing projects, forward looking models, following competitors and building models on them as well. I feel like doing that while pursuing my CFA (sitting for level 1 in December) will at least be good to go into an analyst role following the industry or a solid GMAT to MBA. The CF role is more pay and less hours which leaves time to pursue philanthropic endeavors to boost the resume.
Bottom line: Is my current role transferable to a non sales finance position?
I honestly can't tell you that, though the one thing that pops into my head is Investor Relations, where you're kinda selling the company to investors.
Honestly it sounds like the CF position is the best bet for you. It doesn't sound like you're in a place that you really like or look forward to continuing with. The CF will probably set you up better for b-school, too. More diverse experience. You'll likely need at least a year in the CF position for it to mean anything in b-school admissions.
Search for Alex Chu and ask in his MBA thread about your situation.
Couple of ups and downs about it.
Big 4 internships tend to be shorter in length. You are exposed to smaller deals and transactions. They also lack the 'prestige' factor of a BB firm.
On the other hand, the Big 4 where I live offer fewer internships, in some cases only one placement per rotation.
But remember, any relevant work experience in the corporate finance area will be a plus.
I know quite a few guys that did a Big4 Corp Fin internship last summer. Every single one of them loved it, and every single one of them are staying on (except the ones that told the company they want to take a year off to travel the world, and have had their start dates moved by a a year). I'm not sure what a BB internship would be like, but it seems that Big4 CorpFin is more work (and no more pay) than Big4 Accounting, but less work (and less pay) than any IB internship.
That's just from my friends at 2 Big4 companies and the things I've heard on this site about IB (never known anyone in IB).
what do you mean by lower levels?
college grads vs. MDs
I can't believe that. TEveryone gets paid the same as a 1st yr in Big 4 CF, and there are NO bonuses as Analysts
I'm pretty sure in the UK at least Big4 CF pays more than than their other groups (roughly 28k vs 24k). Maybe I'm wrong. As for internships I've heard of a few ppl who went on to IBs after graduating with a big 4 internship.
I would go for Big 4 CorpFin. Theyre really getting to do some good work these days!
BB PWM internships aren't as notable as CorpFin if you're trying to go into banking. PWM is something that's considered to be farmed out to freshmen & sophomores, while CorpFin would be a "valid" internship.
"valid"= something that you'd have to compete against rising seniors to get and actually indicates high quality.
thanks for all the responses - i definitely see that big 4 corp fin is a pretty valuable internship.
i have two follow-up questions -
1) out of the big 4, which firm has the strongest corp fin practice?
2) how would the value of the internship be affected if it was in a foreign country, say somewhere in Asia? btw i want to work in the US for FT
Big four corp fin - heavily recruited into banks. Much more useful experience for IBD than PWM.
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