IM vs PWM

IM is more on institutional side, like running MFs...that's my understanding.

since when was grunt work prestigious?

i would take PM position in IM over IB any day....

if you can get IB, take IB.

Also, I'm in PWM at BB, trust.

Everyone's got their take on it. I've done both PWM and IB at BBs. Make up your own mind. Going into IB is not a panacea for your career worries.

Hey thanks guys. I wasn't so much interested for my career really, more just curious about the differences, since I never really knew much about either and everyone seems to dump them together.

IM is very different than PWM. IM is probably just as hard to get into out of college as IB, maybe moreso. Think mutual funds, fidelity, etc. PWM is essentially marketing/selling to rich people.

IM, AM etc are all pretty good. I don't know a great deal about PWM and WM. It can be lucrative, but then again driving a truck could turn you into a logistics conglomerate. Personally I wouldn't touch WM or even PWM with a 10-foot pole.

I don't know anything about PWM. I was a SA at a top IM group (BB), so here's a quick brush-up:

Asset management encompasses both IM (institutional clients) and the private bank (wealthy clients worth 25m+ usually). Culture is obviously very bank spec, and group spec. My group arrived around 8:30 (some at 9!) and left around 6-7:30. Face time is meaningless, and you are (usually) doing important and interesting work. Meaning, if you are in equities, you are doing portfolio analysis, stock research, etc. Or if you are in real estate, you are doing DCF/LBO models on various properties, or dealing with your REIT partner to see current leasing/remodeling plans. IE, doing things that directly interest you. The pay is less than IB (I gathered 60k + 10k sign-on + 15-25k first year bonus), but who can fucking complain about 85-95k your first year out of school? Especially with those hours.

And in case you're wondering, a few people from my group exited to blackstone, black rock, Wharton, and Northwestern. I've only heard of people doing strong things once they've left. But the great thing about IM is that it is more of a career post. IM is probably not an ideal stint for an "exit op", rather it is a place to be if you want to make a career out of it (and if you change your mind, you aren't fucked).

Minus product groups, private banking at the junior level seemed like a joke. Just with my exposure to the SA colleagues I had.

PM if you have some questions.

Be careful not to confuse Asset Management with Merchant Banking. In some firms, IM is simply Asset Management for institutional clients. They function as Krakauer described. You are essentially looking at less hours/less pay compared to IBD.

But at others, such as GS and MS, IM is actually under the umbrella of Merchant Banking, which is the private equity arm of the firm. Those IM groups invest directly with the funds raised by the firm. The guys actually work banking hours and get paid at least on par with other IBD analysts. Those groups (think GS PIA, REPIA, MS RE Investing) are actually much harder to get into than the average IBD group. They might use the same name, but these guys are very different from the asset management guys. It's probably a good idea to check out the firms' websites, so that you know what exactly you are applying for.

Hey thanks Krakauer and epitda.

That was kinda my feeling. I realize most people would like to bash IM/AM on this board, but I agree with Krakauer.

How competitive was it to get into your SA program in IM?

And edbita, thanks for clearing up the PIA, REPIA and MS RE stuff, since I was confused as to what those areas were.

I'm pretty sure the PIA doesnt have a summer analyst intern program (what I'm looking for), but an alum of my school is an MD in PIA.

Thanks for the info guys

What do you guys think of pure buy-side (IM / AM). My impression is that life is good. You have the sell-side fighting to serve you. Hours are good, reasonable pay.

great hours, sell-side does cater to your needs, respected for your ideas not your ability to pull all nighters, and the pay is VERY good on a per hour basis.

it's fairly hard to break into a true IM job straight out of undergrad..aka analytics and investment presentations which provide basis for investment execution (there are always tons of PWM and product sales jobs for institutions).

GS IM and MS IM has institutional clients too. it isn't all GS money. no idea where you heard that from. though, GS AM works pretty hectic hours... but most positions, even ops at GS, work pretty ridiculous hours (given the position).