A friend of mine cheated and got an Internship offer at a BB IB

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A friend of mine has a GPA of 2.1. He basically photoshopped his unofficial transcript with better grades and gave himself a much higher GPA and he eventually received a Summer Internship Offer from a BB and even passed their background check.

How exactly did this happen? Apart from the obvious, he will probably suck at his job or won’t be able to keep up with the workload, how do firms let something like this happen and deprive a more deserving candidate of an offer?

Comments (167)

 
Apr 20, 2019 - 12:02am

How is this "Bashing"? I didn't contact the company or expose him or list his information out or anything. I couldn't care less about the way he chooses to live his life. My question was more on the lines of trying to find out whether occurrences like this are common and whether firms have any particular way to verify grades and gpa or are they simply forced to believe what a candidate says which doesn't really make much sense to me.

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 11:56am

They can't "verify" but they can tell him to have his school send something official. He can refuse but they would just pull the offer. He's rolling the dice and it seems like it might pay off. Such is life sometimes. In another timeline they knew the whole time, they fire him on his first day, and he's blacklisted from the entire industry. Risk/Reward

 
Apr 26, 2019 - 7:14pm

As someone who spent 3.5 years busting my ass (post undergrad) to break my way into the industry (top MM now) I would have no reservations about exposing him. I can understand rounding a GPA but pushing it up from 2.1 to an acceptable IB level is a bit much.

 
Apr 19, 2019 - 12:37pm

Good for your friend. He'll either get weeded out quickly or he'll find a way to use his resourcefulness to get the FT offer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning what he did. But like NonTargetHardo2019 said, you sound salty as fuck coming on here to friend-bash saying he'll be "sucky" at his job. It's possible he's a killer techie that just doesn't give a shit about gpa. I know plenty of them.

AA777 you sound like a snitch. Snitches get stitches. Stay in your lane.

Lastly, I find it hilarious that this actually worked. If he's a dishonest POS he'll get the boot so there's no need to rat.

"Out the garage is how you end up in charge It's how you end up in penthouses, end up in cars, it's how you Start off a curb servin', end up a boss"
 
Apr 19, 2019 - 11:56pm

For starters, I don't really care about what he does because in the end it's his own life and if he has no integrity, and happy with living his whole life made up with a bunch of lies then good for him! That is his choice.

That said, he is sucky at his job because he pays people to do his coding assignments. Cheats on tests and he even got into trouble once for copying on a test. I'm not the kind of person who things a GPA is a measure of someone's intelligence and if he really does have the skill set, then good for him. However, under the circumstance, he doesn't.

 
Apr 25, 2019 - 3:02pm

Jeans > salmon shorts, no boat no boat shoes (ACGs>all), buck 90 give or take 10, coffee > mimosas. No time to waste trying to build a buzz off 10 orange juices. Rather be making money.

Lol just saw this. And to address the point. Snitches do, in fact, get stitches.

"Out the garage is how you end up in charge It's how you end up in penthouses, end up in cars, it's how you Start off a curb servin', end up a boss"
 
Jun 8, 2019 - 2:49am

Hmmmm............. Let's change one thing real quick......

"Good for Bernie Madoff. He'll either get put in jail and everyone will magically be recouped and made whole (NOT!) or he'll find a way to use his resourcefulness to keep the scheme going.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning what he did. But like @NonTargetHardo2019 said, you sound salty as fuck coming on here to friend-bash saying he'll be "sucky" at his job(fuck whistleblowing and dignity, right? definitely keep more entitled bros in the top 1%). It's possible he's a killer fund manager that just doesn't give a shit about federal regulation(or basic human decency). I know plenty of them(yeah, I bet).

@AA777 you sound like a snitch. Snitches get stitches(especially from guilty, desperate, insecure people... *really though, is this middle school?). Stay in your lane.

Lastly, I find it hilarious that this actually worked. If he's a dishonest POS he'll get the boot so there's no need to rat(again, as if that fixes everything)."

HMMMMMMM................

JUST DO IT. Don't let your memes be dreams.
 
Controversial
Apr 20, 2019 - 1:20pm

Your post is just so wrong. The reality is not that you have such a high sense of justice and fairness that you needd to share with us that your friend cheated...
You are just jealous of your friend because he managed to have something without as much effort as you. Your are just trying to find some support to rat on your friend.
Your friend did not do something morally wrong . He took a risk and succeeded in taking that additional risk. You could have done the same. But you didn't. Not because you have high value standards, but because you were afraid to get caught. Your friend played and won. He had more balls than you and now you feel that it's not fair because you worked more than him. Life is unfair just suck it up and stop being a crying baby about it.

 
Apr 21, 2019 - 1:48am

The level of immaturity in your post is surreal. What if your loved one was sick and you needed a doctor and guess what! The doctor had the balls to fake his credentials and get a job and was going to be operating on your loved one. So are you still gonna say he had the balls to take that risk while the rest of the doctors were bitches and went to medical school?

With intelligence comes a sense of mortality. It has nothing to do with me being afraid of doing the "Wrong thing".

 
Apr 20, 2019 - 3:22pm

I do think this is pretty fucked up BUT if you spend your entire life wondering how some people get ahead and others (that might be more deserving) don't, you're going to live a very exhausting life. Channel your energy into something more productive and move on.

 
Apr 20, 2019 - 4:14pm

Jesus, you guys are kinda f*cked up.

OP you seem a little too bitter about it, but IMO there's cause to be at least somewhat miffed. OP's "friend" is an asshole. There is NOTHING "clever" or "resourceful" about literally doctoring your fucking transcript to give yourself a higher GPA. Nothing. There is zero similarity between that and doing something like ninja networking your way into interviews with a subpar GPA, or using alternative transcripts, major/Master's GPAs. If I found out about anyone pulling this garbage I'd show them the fucking door.

GPAs aren't a perfect indicator of how good someone will be at their job - hell the guy who runs my vertical graduated from a state school with a 2.something GPA and he's about 20x smarter and richer than I am - but I am of the opinion that doctoring grades is an excellent indicator of how absolutely dogshit someone will be as a professional.

You guys gonna defend Bernie Madoff for just "fudging a few numbers" next?

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 12:34am

Angus Macgyver:

but I am of the opinion that doctoring grades is an excellent indicator of how absolutely dogshit someone will be as a professional.

You guys gonna defend Bernie Madoff for just "fudging a few numbers" next?

I mean, half of college students use illicit drugs as study aids and drink underage. I know not every "crime" or unethical act is equal, but at what point do we remember that whenever you point your finger at a person there are two fingers pointing right back at you?

Array
 
Apr 23, 2019 - 10:22am

Angus Macgyver:

You guys gonna defend Bernie Madoff for just "fudging a few numbers" next?

I was all ready to hammer on the other side, calling the altruistic-integrity-nerds out but this silly line kind of brought it home for me. Lying and being deceitful is a slippery slope. Throughout my career(s), I've witnessed good people upping the ante to the point where processes designed for checks and balances are completely circumvented, producing a result that's completely false. While I don't particularly care that some dbag altered his transcript, who knows what they would be willing to do 4 or 5 years down the line.

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 11:25am

John Pierpont:

Angus Macgyver:

You guys gonna defend Bernie Madoff for just "fudging a few numbers" next?

I was all ready to hammer on the other side, calling the altruistic-integrity-nerds out but this silly line kind of brought it home for me. Lying and being deceitful is a slippery slope. Throughout my career(s), I've witnessed good people upping the ante to the point where processes designed for checks and balances are completely circumvented, producing a result that's completely false. While I don't particularly care that some dbag altered his transcript, who knows what they would be willing to do 4 or 5 years down the line.

I really hate this line of thinking. If you took someone with a 3.4 GPA and took him into an alternate universe and deducted a point from his GPA (down to 2.4) and told him that he could alter his transcript, land a great job, and get away with it, what portion of people do you think would do it? Probably about the same proportion of people who drink underage and who use illicit study aids, which is about half the population, give or take. In other words, we’re making sweeping predictions about the future character of transcript alterers while ignoring people who break actual laws.

I would take my critique a step further, however. A great portion of people lack character when it comes to making specific hard decisions, and yet virtually none of them turn into mega thieves because, broadly speaking, using illicit study aids, drinking underage, and altering your transcript are victimless offenses (broadly speaking, of course). People with flawed character engage in victimless offenses. People with actually bad character steal from others and harm others. Madoff’s offenses were replete with victims. Grand theft and illicit marijuana use aren’t comparable offenses.

Array
 
Apr 20, 2019 - 6:02pm

Two things are true at once here.

(i) OP's friend is a fraudulent assclown who should have never gotten the gig. I think that GPA is a bad proxy for intelligence/ability to do the job, but forging a document to pull the wool over the company's eyes is a good proxy for bad character.

(ii) OP has nothing to gain by ratting the kid out, it's not as if they'll swap out the fraud for him, and he would be better served focusing on himself. I don't blame him for being pissed that someone who he competed w/ for a spot and lost to was a cheat, though.

Array
 
Apr 20, 2019 - 6:06pm

I did the same thing, and now I make 90k in a role I like in the midwest. I don't fucking regret it at all haha.

Sucks to be you and not your friend OP.

Ty
 
Apr 24, 2019 - 8:04pm

My family comes from means, boss I don't need to work like a dog begging for water like you or some others do.

And would I do it again, oh damn I would. Enjoy working those 100 hour weeks animal, like a rodent running on a wheel.

Ty
 
Apr 20, 2019 - 6:29pm

If he's able to get through the internship despite having cheated at basically everything (which is clear after reading not just OP's first post but also a comment later in the thread), then it just goes to show you either how useless grades are or how useless this job is.

 
Apr 21, 2019 - 3:28pm

GPAs don’t have to have a perfect correlation with professional success to merit being respected in a competitive interview process.

You know what does have a strong correlation with being a dogshit professional? Lying about something as trivial and small as a GPA.

All you guys are fucking wack lmao. Not good enough to make it on your own so you trip all over yourselves babbling flimsy rationales to justify what you know makes you a lesser person and professional. I laugh all the way down park avenue.

You all talk a big game about how ballsy and brave and bold it is to lie your way into a firm - how comfy would you morons be with this liar talking to your clients on the desk?

Array
 
Apr 20, 2019 - 8:32pm

I was working a deal two years ago at my old firm, we were able to get EBITDA from $40M to about $65M in ridiculous add backs and bull shit adjustments to be able to over leverage the company. The equivalent of changing a GPA from 2.1 to 3.5.

Sounds, like he will fit in finance just fine.

Also, put yourself in his shoes. What choice did he have? Get dinged for a shit GPA and never get an interview or round out his GPA and get an interview and maybe get caught and get dinged. It seems like a asymmetrical risk / reward type situation. I'm not encouraging this, but I mean if one of my friends did this and got the job, id buy him some beers and hope for him to succeed instead of bashing him.

It's a dog eat dog world out there, get used to it.

 
Apr 21, 2019 - 3:23pm

Wtf are you talking about lol - he has two choices other than violating the rules other better people are respecting for everyone’s mutual benefit:

  1. Get legit good grades in the first place
  2. Distinguish himself in a bespoke way that appeals to his employer.

You all are such morons. Society would literally not function if everyone was a free-riding piece of shit like OP’s friend. Thankfully most people have better character than all the wannabe banker kiddies on WSO.

Array
 
Apr 21, 2019 - 4:06pm

He had two choices. The ship for getting good grades has sailed. He fucked up his opportunity to do it the right way. Now he chose to get in the sketchy way, and will have to live with the potential consequences if he ever gets caught. I probably wouldn't go that route, but if he did it and it works, good for him.

The point I'm making is that sometimes you gotta play the cards you are dealt, or in his case, the cards you end up with due to bad luck or poor decision making. Maybe he started out with a strong hand, fucked it up and is in a bad spot and saw that as a risky way to get out of the bad spot.

 
Apr 24, 2019 - 8:09pm

thankfully their is enough self-righteous jihadi clowns like you, for there always to be guys like me. I will always cheat homie....and I owe it to you for giving me the opportunity.

As if most fortunes weren't made brutally or through deceit. We gotta real good guy merican here haha.

Have some xanax motherfucker, might bring your blood pressure down, which I'm sure is reaching dangerous levels.

Ty
 
Funniest
Apr 20, 2019 - 10:02pm

OP should apply to work for the SEC since they are also cucks.

 
Apr 21, 2019 - 5:09am

Interesting since my BB for this summer requires grades sent directly from my University for reasons like this. Very surprised this BB does not have a similar measure in place. Curious if others have had the same with BB not requiring official transcripts. Between this and zero drug testing it seems like the wild west lol.

 
Apr 21, 2019 - 12:33pm

So many of these responses are misinterpreting the question. This isn’t about ratting someone out, it’s about trying to understand what the IB screening process looks like and why people can get away with this.
I don’t work in HR, but let’s remember we are talking about HR here. This kind of slippage shouldn’t be surprising. I’ve heard stories of people slightly raising a GPA on a resume, but nothing about photoshopping. Also heard stories about lying on a standardized test score from high school. Those background checks are for legal not academic reasons.

Sounds like this guy will not do well in his job. I wouldn’t worry, either he goes for the summer and is not able to handle it, or he goes, gets an offer, and has to live with it. These things catch up to people, a small 3.4 to 3.5 is painless, photoshopping your transcripts is a sign that you should stay away from this crafty friend and make better friends.

 
Apr 21, 2019 - 3:20pm

God, what a thread.

You’re in the right OP, fuck your slippery “friend”.

And fuck all of you in this thread who are pretending this is okay. Your moral compasses are busted, and you are straight up lesser men for being too soft to condemn this behavior and lacking the forbearance to swear off of it yourselves.

It’s unquestionably possible to get FT IB with a non target background and GPA (let alone tech, LOL) - I did it - so why don’t all you big bois go do it yourselves instead of cutting corners like little bitches? Just admit to yourselves that you’re below the bar and that’s why you substitute lies for substance?

Just keep it up OP, and forget these fucking cheaters. It’s very easy to cut corners in your professional life to get ahead, but it’s a slippery slope too. Everyone knows when they’re dealing with a liar, it’s plain as day. People who indulge themselves in it tend to go deeper down the rabbit hole to perpetuate their lies, and in my experience they get their comeuppance eventually. Thing is when you cheat your way to the top, there’s a lot of people who feel justified destroying you when you inevitably stumble upon a moment of weakness.

Array
 
Apr 22, 2019 - 10:38am

I wonder how prevalent this actually is. My first employer out of college requested official transcripts on my first day on the job. If I recall there is watermarks, an official seal and it's on unique textured paper. How on earth do you doctor that?

On individuals actually pulling this off, I bet it's less than 1% of candidates that have that combination of broken moral compass + the balls to go through with it all.

Would love to hear more about this if anyone has additional stories

 
Apr 22, 2019 - 5:57pm

How hard can it be? I'd imagine Fedex Office could make you watermark paper with the school's logo and probably not hard to get your hands on the vaunted "seal" (isn't it just a sticker?). Keep in mind you don't need to have the exact ones the school has, just good enough to look like it.

Amazing to me that the schools don't offer a secure solution in 2019, in a time when we're already accustomed to logging in to 20 different things a day just to live our daily lives and when the professional job market is so competitive that 7th graders have internships. So higher motivation to cheat than ever, and more fixable than ever.

 
Apr 22, 2019 - 11:37pm

Dedline:
On individuals actually pulling this off, I bet it's less than 1% of candidates that have that combination of broken moral compass + the balls to go through with it all.

As someone who did create a completely fake transcript, I can speak to this. When you have a 2.nothing at a state school, you're staring into the abyss. At the time I felt a sense of complete desperation. The economy was rough at the time and my friends were still getting good job offers, all the while I couldn't even get an interview, and the one interview I got I crushed, was invited to firm headquarters and was basically told I was going to be a future partner at the firm. When they saw my real transcript, they went from putting me on a 10-year partner track to literally never again acknowledging my existence.

So, yeah, you'd be surprised what you can do when you feel like you're pressed against the wall. I wouldn't say my moral compass is any more broken than anyone else's--I just led myself to believe that I had no other choice.

Array
 
Apr 24, 2019 - 8:14pm

many midsize AM firms, consulting firms, and regular corporate roles don't really require a transcript. I just downloaded mine into PDF form, and edited the 3.2 to a 3.7 and that was that. Hardly murder, but some good guy hardworkers seem to think otherwise. Those clowns don't work in sales though, nor are they partners/upper execs in their organizations either. As long as corporate politics exist, I see no wrong in what I did. Other people get ahead through other means, fraud was just the easiest to deploy for me at that time.

Ty
 
Apr 22, 2019 - 11:16pm

:

A friend of mine has a GPA of 2.1. He basically photoshopped his unofficial transcript with better grades and gave himself a much higher GPA and he eventually received a Summer Internship Offer from a BB and even passed their background check.

How exactly did this happen? Apart from the obvious, he will probably suck at his job or won’t be able to keep up with the workload, how do firms let something like this happen and deprive a more deserving candidate of an offer?

I did the same thing. I doctored my 2.52 GPA into a 3.39 (to avoid a background check into Dean's Lists, I kept it right below 3.4) and landed an investment banking analyst role right out of college. I don't know how I feel about doing it--I have lots of mixed emotions about it.

I think the only reason I don't feel a lot of guilt about it is because I believed at the time--and that belief has been fully reenforced out in the real world--that college is complete and utter horseshit, that your GPA is largely a function of your ability, at age 18-22, to do what you're told and conform. I didn't do what I was told--I didn't do my work, I argued with the professors, I didn't pay attention in class--and yet I still passed L1 of the CFA exam the month I graduated from college and absolutely annihilated the tests the investment bank gave me. So, I guess I didn't fail to learn just because my GPA was low. But I did fail to conform.

On the other hand, I definitely took someone else's analyst spot. But I can rationalize that by knowing that that person wouldn't have hesitated to step on my throat if it could get him or her ahead. I don't know. Mixed emotions.

Array
 
Apr 23, 2019 - 12:38pm

The amount of users piling on and lauding an act of fraud is disgusting.

"... college is complete and utter horseshit, that your GPA is largely a function of your ability, at age 18-22, to do what you're told and conform"

This isn't a unique perspective. I've hated school my entire life for this exact reason. I worked really hard for my 3.8 major GPA to at least cover up for my 3.2 cumulative because I knew I couldn't compete against kids who were built that way. I worked full-time for 3 years in my professional domain during college to guarantee I wouldn't lose to 3.5+'s.

But what were you doing for 4 years? Not paying attention? Arguing with professors? A recession hits and you're stuck holding the bag on 2.52 because you were too good for the institution of higher education? You didn't have the balls to forgo college (or drop out) so I don't buy the hints of civic righteousness that you're alluding too. "...passing L1 of CFA" or "...annihilating the tests the investment bank gave me" and even getting the IB interview in the first place are completely mutually exclusive.

You had a serious lapse of integrity but what's weirdest, is that you write / sound as though you were entitled to do so.

As for who you are today, nobody is going to ask for your transcripts beyond your first job; nobody gives a fuck.

But I wonder, boy I wonder, if I could smell it on you.

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 1:23pm

Dedline:

The amount of users piling on and lauding an act of fraud is disgusting.

How am I lauding an act of fraud? I'm saying I have mixed emotions about what I did. That's a far cry from praising the action.

Dedline:
This isn't a unique perspective. I've hated school my entire life for this exact reason. I worked really hard for my 3.8 major GPA to at least cover up for my 3.2 cumulative because I knew I couldn't compete against kids who were built that way. I worked full-time for 3 years in my professional domain during college to guarantee I wouldn't lose to 3.5+'s.

Have you ever stopped and asked yourself why? That's a legitimate question. Why did you work hard for a high GPA? Did this increase your learning? Did you contribute to the betterment of society? Did it produce a product or service that people wanted? Honest question. I've always felt that a high GPA was achieved in service of self so that you could play the game. It's hardly an act of altruism.

Dedline:
But what were you doing for 4 years? Not paying attention? Arguing with professors? A recession hits and you're stuck holding the bag on 2.52 because you were too good for the institution of higher education?

Yes.

Dedline:

"...passing L1 of CFA" or "...annihilating the tests the investment bank gave me" and even getting the IB interview in the first place are completely mutually exclusive.

No they're not. They expose the intellectual bankruptcy of college education, especially undergraduate business education.

Dedline:
You had a serious lapse of integrity but what's weirdest, is that you write / sound as though you were entitled to do so.

Yes on both counts. I feel less guilty the further I get away from it and realize that the college industrial complex is corrupt and that the most elite jobs are rigged not by race or gender but by network. If I had a nickel for every person I've met in my journey who had their job or their promotion based on who they knew...

If I felt as though there were a real victim I'd have more guilt about it. There is no victim.

Dedline:
As for who you are today, nobody is going to ask for your transcripts beyond your first job; nobody gives a fuck.

But I wonder, boy I wonder, if I could smell it on you.

Ha, do you think that is going to make me look hard in the mirror and consider my crime? I assure you I've thought much more deeply about this than you.

Array
 
Apr 23, 2019 - 3:27pm

Dedline:
You had a serious lapse of integrity but what's weirdest, is that you write / sound as though you were entitled to do so.

To whom does this student owe a duty of honesty? To the student who's spot he took? Are you saying that the cheater screwed over the honest kid because the honest kid had a better GPA and was thus entitled to the better job?

I don't think the honest kid has any legitimate beef with the cheater. Getting a high GPA entitles you to nothing, and at no point do students join hands and agree to step aside for one another based on one person deserving it more than another.

The cheater probably owes his employer some honesty, but I question the mutuality of that relationship. I've had a few employers, still waiting for the first one that did something for me out of moral obligation.

People don't automatically owe eachother honesty. That obligation comes from a relationship where each party agreed (usually implicitly) to be honest with the other. At least in my book.

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 8:45am

Honestly I have no problem with this. A lot of people who have been successful in this world wouldn't be there if they'd always played by the rules. This is a tough world and you have to do what you can to get what you want. As long as he didn't break the law, why not? Stop being a salty little bitch (you clearly are, despite what you say) and let it go.

"Yeah, you know whatcha doin."
 
Apr 23, 2019 - 10:09am

It's a very bold and risky move. Not sure how the exact laws are in the US, but here the bank could press charges if they discover the fraud - it's a textbook case of fraud / falsifying documents.

In the worst case, the police would get involved (is it a misdemeanor, or felony?), the banks would blacklist him, and his school could go forward with a revocation of his degree. Hell, I wonder if banks could sue him for salary paid, too.

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 10:14am

Also - If if haven't yet, I believe that in the very near feature, most schools will start participating in credential-sharing software. It's already been rolled out here in my country.

Basically, if you agree, employers can go directly to your school, and request official transcripts and diplomas through a website - which cuts down on time from the traditional model (of schools shipping out a physical stamped an sealed one to the employer), and removes the risk of anyone tampering with said physical copies. Works great.

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 10:27am

:

A friend of mine has a GPA of 2.1. He basically photoshopped his unofficial transcript with better grades and gave himself a much higher GPA and he eventually received a Summer Internship Offer from a BB and even passed their background check.

How exactly did this happen? Apart from the obvious, he will probably suck at his job or won’t be able to keep up with the workload, how do firms let something like this happen and deprive a more deserving candidate of an offer?

He'll probably crush it - #WorkSmarterNotHarder

 
Apr 23, 2019 - 3:02pm

Me wading into the thread late:

community fire

For what it's worth, I had a 3.1 state school GPA and never doctored my transcript or cheated in class. It cost me any semblance of a good job upon graduation where I started at a no-name boutique. Took me 4 more years of grinding in Big 4 TAS and 2 years of business school to make it into BB IB the legit way. I wouldn't trade in my integrity for anything but the above responses really add a lot of context around my colleagues...

Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes.
 
Apr 23, 2019 - 11:45pm

Synergy_or_Syzygy:

Me wading into the thread late:

community fire

For what it's worth, I had a 3.1 state school GPA and never doctored my transcript or cheated in class. It cost me any semblance of a good job upon graduation where I started at a no-name boutique. Took me 4 more years of grinding in Big 4 TAS and 2 years of business school to make it into BB IB the legit way. I wouldn't trade in my integrity for anything but the above responses really add a lot of context around my colleagues...

The "legit" way? What does that even mean? Half the guys are there because their network or some university label next to their name--something other than their skill set. The idea of merit in high finance is a complete fantasy. The only merit on Wall Street is among the guys who actually bring in business. If you aren't actively bringing in business then there is a good chance you (not you specifically, of course) got the job because of some system-fulfilling prophesy that appoints people to high paying analyst jobs because they went to the right school or know the right people. "Merit" and high finance go together like academia and knowledge in 2019 America. Let's be real. I can scarcely imagine another industry that is based less on merit than high finance.

Array
 
Apr 23, 2019 - 6:34pm

Honestly who cares. He did what he did. Tough shit. Lots of people here seem to have done it or condone it. I don't care that they got the jobs that kids who worked harder may or may not have, but in my opinion dishonesty makes you a real bitch. It's just a fact. Whether you were too stupid, lazy or righteous, you could have taken the steps to do things the proper way. You may have gotten a job but you do not deserve respect. But I don't expect anyone to care about the opinion of just one person. I know I wouldn't.

Dayman?
 
Apr 23, 2019 - 9:42pm

Oh no, how is this 2.1 GPA having idiot ever going to survive his overpaid data entry internship....

This job doesn't take as much genius as people want to think.

Array
 
Apr 24, 2019 - 8:01am

I'm honestly shocked how many here are defending outright cheating.

For fucks sake, you're devaluing your own hard work.

edit: As much as I hate the slippery slope rhetoric, who's to say that this kid doesn't start to doctor other papers when he's feeling some heat?

I understand that people are willing to do anything for certain things, and that it's easy to write off this kind of stuff as a "one time accident", and rationalize it with stuff like "Oh, but he's only trying to hustle his way in / get a foot inside the door", and compare it to school football players using steroids, in order to maximize their chances of making the cut come draft.

Nah, if he's willing to alter something as big as this - not just sugarcoat - but fundamentally alter, then that says something about his character.

 
Apr 24, 2019 - 8:41pm

tackytech:

I'm honestly shocked how many here are defending outright cheating.

For fucks sake, you're devaluing your own hard work.

edit: As much as I hate the slippery slope rhetoric, who's to say that this kid doesn't start to doctor other papers when he's feeling some heat?

I understand that people are willing to do anything for certain things, and that it's easy to write off this kind of stuff as a "one time accident", and rationalize it with stuff like "Oh, but he's only trying to hustle his way in / get a foot inside the door", and compare it to school football players using steroids, in order to maximize their chances of making the cut come draft.

Nah, if he's willing to alter something as big as this - not just sugarcoat - but fundamentally alter, then that says something about his character.

What does it say about the character of a system where an MD only or disproportionately recruits from his alma mater? Or where a bank hires someone because of his connections? Or where a feeder university admits someone because of his legacy status?

High finance recruiting is a process without character, a process replete with unfair recruiting practices. I think it's kind of nice to see the system undermined, to be quite frank.

Array
 
Apr 25, 2019 - 9:04am

I know the system can seem unfair, but when it comes to hiring, the fact is that there's only so many resources the banks have - and at some point, the laws of diminishing returns kick in. If a bank decided to spend $1 Bn on recruiting at every school in the country, going rigorously through every damn applicant, I don't think they'd get that much better ROI than how the system is today. At some point, the applicants are pretty much identical, and if you sample from a pool of 2000 "target" candidates vs 100000 candidates, you're not really gonna improve that much.

Wall Street (High-Finance in general) want candidates that are driven, competitive, hard-working, and smart. So why not just make the work easier, and focus on selective schools that already does that filtering for you?

So even though the game is somewhat stacked against you, I don't think it gives anyone a free pass to simply ignore the rules. You take the cards you've been dealt, and play the game to your best ability. Having poor grades and coming from a less known school doesn't mean getting a job is impossible, just that you need to work hundred times harder, and impress people with other qualities.

Making a personal impression on someone will go a long way.

 
Apr 25, 2019 - 4:06pm

While I think you have had some thought provoking comments on this thread, I would disagree about your last sentence. Maybe to you, who from your comments seem like you really wanted to "stick it to the man" in one way or another, seeing someone cheat there way in is a good thing. However, I feel like it really isn't. While it is impossible to specifically say who, that may have been a position that could have gone to someone who put in the extra time in school keeping there grades up, even though they probably didn't like the classes. Or to someone who networked exceptionally hard, even though talking to fucking Managing Directors scared them shitless. I am surprised that you really think it's a good thing, because contrary to your comment further up, it's not a victimless crime. While I'm sure that person who cheated will be fine as an analyst, I personally think their character leaves a lot to be desired.

Dayman?
 
Apr 24, 2019 - 8:23pm

Your friend (or you lol) has balls.

Also, if you aren't talking about yourself, then sorry to burst your precious bubble - "The A, B and C alums at Harvard in fact could be broadly characterized thus, [Summers] said: The A students became academics, B students spent their time trying to get their children into the university as legacies, and the C students—the ones who had made the money—sat on the fund-raising committee" (WSJ).

Reminds me of that Mad Men episode of how Don got his break at SC.

 
  • Developer in Acct - Audit
Apr 24, 2019 - 10:07pm

I like this thread.

  • You get to see what everyone really thinks.

  • You have the slippery slope people.

  • You have the it doesn't affect you people.

  • You have the you're a snitch people.

  • You have the people that have also done immoral or unethical stuff but somehow they draw the line at this.

  • You have the people who are salty because they are afraid of getting caught and doing it

  • You have the people who think its wrong and won't do it because of their integrity

  • You have the people who don't give a shit because if they have done similar and will probably do worse because fuck everybody else - until something wrongs them of course

  • You have the people who say this is fucked up but it doesn't personally affect me

  • You have the people who applied to the same program and are pretty sad or not even mad
 
Apr 26, 2019 - 2:00am

I don't see how people would support this type of behaviour from OP's friend. It's like condoning a street mugger for stealing from someone else and saying "they only did that to hustle or get something out of their crappy situation".

Definitely not a victimless crime lol

 
Apr 28, 2019 - 8:49pm

Sad to see how many on here who either don’t give a shit about integrity or enable it. This is why I wish the U.S had mandatory military service like Germany, Singapore, Israel, etc. Service drills core ethics such as integrity into young, stupid, impressionable minds who need to get smacked up when they stray the course. Some of you dipshits need that in your life. Your beyond pathetic and all the keyboard warrioring in the world wont change that. Those with no integrity have been the enemy of progress since the beginning of human civilization.

 
Apr 28, 2019 - 9:01pm

trabo:

Sad to see how many on here who either don’t give a shit about integrity or enable it. This is why I wish the U.S had mandatory military service like Germany, Singapore, Israel, etc. Service drills core ethics such as integrity into young, stupid, impressionable minds who need to get smacked up when they stray the course. Some of you dipshits need that in your life. Your beyond pathetic and all the keyboard warrioring in the world wont change that. Those with no integrity have been the enemy of progress since the beginning of human civilization.

The guy who says we should be smacked aside the head also calls as “keyboard warriors” for simply presenting a rational case in favor of or at least in explanation of the action.

You’re free to break the argument. After all, guys like me got poor grades in college so you should be able to dominate me intellectually.

Array
 
Apr 28, 2019 - 9:50pm

Nobody cares to dominate you intellectually. You got poor grades in college. Don't lie about it. You did what you did. We all know grades don't make a good financier. Hell, we all know integrity doesn't make a great financier. But integrity does make for a good human who is a positive contribution to society and who we should all strive to surround ourselves with.

And don't try to chalk this up to "presenting a rational case in favor of or at least an explanation of the action". Whether this story is just a fictional event meant to be provocative or not, its indefensible to blatantly lie to cut ahead of people in life. Nobody is buying your beat-around-the-bush excuse for defending the offender. All these people crying "why you mad OP!?", well, the OP should be mad and so should you. Plenty here have made massive sacrifices to obtain their positions through shear perseverance and don't enjoy having losers cut in front of them. Why have any integrity at all if there is absolutely no incentive for being honest? Might as well just let all of society go to shit by never holding anyone accountable for their actions.

And don't conflate saying "service drills core ethics such as integrity into young, stupid, impressionable minds who need to get smacked up" with keyboard warrioring. I was a young, stupid, impressionable mind who got smacked the hell up in the service and came out a better man having gone through it. Thats the whole point of serving. You should come out a proud, upstanding citizen who your neighbors can rely on to do the right thing even when nobody is looking. Maybe you don't think that matters in society, but plenty of us do. The moral stain of developing a reputation of having no integrity follows you throughout your life. Is that the label you really want on your forehead?

 
Apr 30, 2019 - 6:48am

Your friend committed fraud. It should have been caught by the background screening. Maybe for internships background checks are less rigorous.

If he gets caught he will get his full time offer rescinded or will get fired and possibly will have issues with the FINRA. An he should.

 
May 1, 2019 - 5:33pm

He wouldn't have had to forge a transcript if he just cheated on his exams in the first place

JM28
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