Adderal on Wall Street?

BK325's picture
Rank: Senior Monkey | 79

hey just out of curiousity, how common is it for people, analysts and otherwise, to take adderal and other comparable drugs without prescriptions. Is it just commonplace and accepted that people do it? Or is it more secretive and shady where if your superiors found out it could be a black mark on your record. Obviously i'm talking about people who don't actually have ADD, and either get a BS prescription, or just take it without rx

Comments (130)

Mar 21, 2007

I consider it shady. I mean honestly, I don't see the point of it. You know it messes up your brain and hence to continue doing the rigorous work an ibanker does you'll have to stay on the addy.

Mar 21, 2007
yury:

I consider it shady. I mean honestly, I don't see the point of it. You know it messes up your brain and hence to continue doing the rigorous work an ibanker does you'll have to stay on the addy.

I'm not a banker, but anyone on this board would know that analysts do the number crunching, not the higher ups. Yury, i think if you had adderall available, you would take it too if it helped you be a star analyst, which it would. I think the long term effects you are referencing are overstated - anyone who's taken it knows it doesn't help you in sales or generating ideas....

Mar 21, 2007

Yuri, are you actually familiar with how common adderall use is within IB?

Mar 21, 2007

No, yury is a freshman at penn state.

Mar 21, 2007

I was just talking with my doctor about that this morning (I FINALLY got a chance to go in for a physical). He said, and I quote, "All those kids are on speed. I had a kid in here just yesterday who said he needed Adderall or he couldn't work his sixteen-hour days. You know, I hate doing it; it's like giving narcotics to junkies. But I'm just one guy; what am I gonna do about it?"

Now, my doc does have a tendency to exaggerate the hazards of the banking lifestyle... but believe me, there are a lot of us out here riding the A-train through all-nighters. It's not something that I'd want my superiors to know about, but it wouldn't be an HR issue or anything if they did find out. After all, I do have ADD. We all do. ;)

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Mar 21, 2007

What are some of the effects of Adderall on someone who's been taking it for say 2+ years?

Apr 12, 2011
aadpepsi:

What are some of the effects of Adderall on someone who's been taking it for say 2+ years?

The long term side affects of psychostimulants, i.e. Adderall, Vyvanse, Retilin, etc., have no current studies to date since they are a relatively new pharmological drug being prescribed (being less than 15 years). My educated guess would be cardiac defects, Parkison like syndromes, Restless Leg Syndrome, adrenal gland atrophy (since this is the gland that is producing the norepi that gives you the speeding feeling), and numerous other central nervous system problems. I am as guilty as the wall street yuppie since I am in school for 8 hours a day and study 8 hours after that. The competition is not the same as it use to be and any form of benifit that someone trying to be the best at whatever they are doing professionally will do what it takes to get the upper hand. Therefore, I don't think most of us even knowing the potential, dangerous, long term side-effects will discontinue the useage as long as there is short term gradification for being on top.

Mar 21, 2007

Heh. I remember once, I was driving with another then-engineering senior and I read the warning sticker on the adderall bottle I was holding and it said:

"warning: may cause drowsiness"

And I thought....huh.....that's weird......and then I realized:

"OH! If you actually NEED Adderall it can make you sleepy!"

Apr 12, 2011

ha

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?
Adderall Monkeying Around

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

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Apr 12, 2011

post some reply, im interested (never tried adderall etc.)

Apr 12, 2011
animalz:

post some reply, im interested (never tried adderall etc.)

30min in, starting to feel a good focus / energy / concentration, hands are glued to the keyboard and getting things done, analytic thinking/speed is definitely up

haha my friend warned me before don't get on facebook you'll get addicted to chatting ppl! so gotta log off of there.. otherwise distractions are def to a minimum

will keep updating

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

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Apr 12, 2011

How many mgs?

Drink water and periodically stretch your legs. Laugh at the shrinkage. Don't drink any coffee and/or energy drinks if you're not used to it.

You'll be in a bad mood either tonight or tomorrow. Enjoy trying to get to bed.

If you want to be Wall Street look up modafinil lol

Apr 12, 2011
mb666:

How many mgs?

Drink water and periodically stretch your legs. Laugh at the shrinkage. Don't drink any coffee and/or energy drinks if you're not used to it.

You'll be in a bad mood either tonight or tomorrow. Enjoy trying to get to bed.

If you want to be Wall Street look up modafinil lol

not sure how many mgs... they said just take half a pill since it's my first time and the dosage would be enough

got the water, yeah good idea about stretching legs otherwise i'd forget to get up, shrinkage? damn might have to cxl some plans for tonight... which brings up alcohol. if i go out tonight and i'm still feeling the energy from adderall should i go light on the drinks?

def heard of modafinil, i guess adderall is the 'gateway drug' to that huh?

gotta get off fb chat....

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

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Apr 12, 2011

I've been prescribed both adderall and vyvanse. They seem great at first but with adderall you can only work for 8 hours and then your brain is just fried. With vyvanse that doesn't happen but it lasts too long and makes you unable to sleep. Or at least that is my experience with them.

Apr 12, 2011

yeah, what mb666, get ready for the "adderall rage" phase.

Apr 12, 2011

lol peppar thy angus brah... i recommend no internet, especially no porn, and inb4 3 page response on ur adderall experience

Apr 12, 2011
investmentpimp:

lol peppar thy angus brah... i recommend no internet, especially no porn, and inb4 3 page response on ur adderall experience

What he said. But not what he said:

Little Engine Would:

Vyvanse...70mg

Apr 12, 2011
investmentpimp:

lol peppar thy angus brah... i recommend no internet, especially no porn, and inb4 3 page response on ur adderall experience

at a cafe so no porn,

3 pages? ha might make two

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

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Apr 12, 2011

Is a thread necessary? Just Google that shit. Or just go ahead and try it.

Vyvanse is better by the way. Get that next time. 70mg

Apr 12, 2011
Little Engine Would:

Is a thread necessary? Just Google that shit. Or just go ahead and try it.

Vyvanse is better by the way. Get that next time. 70mg

Vyvanse is def better, but the 70s are crazy. I din't sleep for like 3 days after taking one of those.

Apr 12, 2011

whoa..

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

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Apr 12, 2011

4 consecutive posts. pretty impressive. this is bringing back memories of college. following for updates.

Apr 12, 2011

getting an aderol is not a good idea.

you should never rely on other substances to push you into smth, except coffee red bulls common stuff, to get you ahead. eventually as you do it more often you'll inhibit your own strengths and your limits will contract not expand. the moment that you find it hard and sometimes impossible to do smth and don't rely on your strengths and will is the moment you meet your limit and give up. because you don't struggle with it, you don't push yourslef enough, you don't break your limits

make it as a plan that will stay all night and clear your mind from everything else. in other words fuck everything else, the world for that moment should be evolved around your studying materials and keep pushing it. when you get tired and think that's enough, stay another hour take a few minutes break, and then another break again and continue this until you can't stay on your feet. if you do this then you'll realize that impossible is just a word, but more importantly you'll know your limits and what you are able to accomplish if you want to.

There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to overcome.
-William F. Hasley

Apr 12, 2011

Adderall is a trickey substance to dabble into. Defiantly don't rely on it or at least make sure you monitor it carefully. (10MGs a day max) I have been every weekday for the last year (prescribed) and although it helps it is easy to start taking more and more and more to get that edge you used to get. I fell into that trap right when I started and go to the point where I felt like I couldn't function without 50+. It was hard to ween off and get back to 10-none a day. Best way to truly stay focused is to shut off all the BS such as your phone, email, fbook, WSO!! (i know its hard), and you will be amazed what you can accomplish in a few hours.

Apr 12, 2011

IS THERE ANY LEGIT WEBSITE THAT SELLS THIS? I HAVE NO INSURANCE.

Mar 21, 2007

Yeah I really doubt that A is any worse for you than say, smoking the occasional cigarette and drinking a few times a week.

Speaking of which, do a lot of folks revert back to smoking during the Analyst years at your bank?

Apr 12, 2011

Why don't you just buckle down and study harder...are you at Queens/McGill by any chance? I would avoid any drugs and just reevaluate why you are not able to get the grades you need without using adderall.

Apr 12, 2011

Just don't use it. Like Ove said, strap your shit down and study.

I used to load up on adderall every time I had a test last year, and it only fucked me up. You may feel focused but your body is tired and your mental capacity isn't at its max if you've been awake for 36 hours prior to an exam. Even if you do use it correctly, it only sets you up for further problems.

Apr 12, 2011

Well we don't know your situation, but if your grades slipped because you partied too much, that's your fault.
If your grades slipped because you worked part-time and you were captain of a sports team, that's a completely different story..

Apr 12, 2011

I'm going to be contrarian and say that if you legitimately think you may have ADD you should talk to a doctor/therapist and see if they think you should consider medication. I did fairly well through school and in my first job but frequently felt like I could do better if I just "tried harder" or "focused more". What I realize now is that of you have legitimate, diagnosable ADD it's not really a matter of trying harder.

Even if you decide not to/are advised not to take any medication there are some things you can do with diet and exercise to help with attentional issues as well.

I think part of the reason Adderall gets te rap it does is because f the level of misuse (ie bumming a pill off a friend without consideration to dose or whether ADD is actually the cause of your problem) so try to make sure you're being honest about why you're asking for the medicine.

Apr 12, 2011

Stop being a fucking idiot and study. Weak ass bitch.

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Apr 12, 2011

^ not to put it bluntly or anything but...yea

Here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, you are the sucker.

Apr 12, 2011

if you can't get decent grades without artificial stimulants then chances are you don't have what it takes to work at a BB in the first place

Apr 12, 2011

Use it if you want, lots of people do. Adderall is based off amphetamine salts, so it's going to keep you awake. Read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine_effects

If you want to know more about it, PM me.

Apr 12, 2011

It depends on what the drug test tests for. Adderall is an amphetamine and it will show up under amphetamines but if you have a prescription for it, then they can't really hold it against you. I have been taking it for years and passed every drug test I have had to take. Just disclose it at the beginning and prior to the test.

Apr 12, 2011

WTF is a medical background check? Do you mean a drug test?

If so, all that would happen is you have to prove you have a prescription. In no way would that lead to you not getting an offer.

Apr 12, 2011

For anyone that's truly concerned, amphetamines are out of your urine within a couple of days and hair >15~ days. Most drug tests are with urine so its nothing to worry about, your body is efficient at filtering out artificial chemicals. Traces of marijuana on the other hand can remain in your system for much longer.

Apr 12, 2011

Drug tests (or a medical background exam or whatever that is) are illegal in Canada anyway so if you want to load up on adderall, you can do so freely. Whether that's the fix for your bad grades is another question (and I would think it isn't, but that's up to you and your physician to decide)

Edit: didn't realize this was a 4 year old thread...

Mar 21, 2007

A lot of people on this board continually confuse dextroamphetamines with methamphetamines. They are extremely dissimilar. I'd like to know how Adderall "messes up your brain" and under what circumstances... and, of course, the sources are key.

I'm not saying it's a light drug, but it's no meth. One can take Adderall lightly and occasionally (such as my own case, in which I use an average of a dose a month for emergencies).

ChemE, I believe it can cause drowsiness in some people because it smoothes/focuses brain waves. Being physically stimulated is not always a guarantee that you can't fall asleep... though it can be a very strange sleep.

I believe it's a useful tool for when you're suddenly getting slammed nonstop and life is hell and no one will let you sleep. I don't think it's terribly useful as an automatic one-a-day lifestyle drug. The greatest benefits wear off after a few months of steady use. There are always higher dosages, of course, but who wants to start climbing that staircase?

Apr 12, 2011

Really.... The best idea you had was to ask on a blog which doctors prescribe schedule II drugs easily? If you think you need them, talk to your primary care doctor and explain to him your situation. Most doctors in NYC/therapists in NYC are pretty understanding given how hectic this city is. In terms of reasons, you have trouble focusing, unable to concentrate for long periods of time, etc...

Apr 12, 2011

5-10mg? You're better off using caffeine at that level. Also, you're only there for a summer, so you're not going to need all that much (especially at 5/10mg doses). It'd be significantly easier to just go through friends on your campus.

Mar 21, 2007

So the main benefits of taking Adderall are a sharper focus during crunch times?

Apr 12, 2011

where do you get yours?
and yes, same here

happy to give advice; no asking for referrals please

Apr 12, 2011

Just a prescription. Pretty sure anyone could get prescribed ha

Apr 12, 2011

modafinil >

Apr 12, 2011

Nope. Makes me too sketch if I need to interact with people/clients I've noticed. When I know I am going to stay late and work on a model all night I may dabble in some.

Apr 12, 2011

Never tried.

Apr 12, 2011

Yeah, I use it and it works wonders

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  • justanotherbanker
  •  Mar 21, 2007

Caffeine pills work fairly well (ie. Thermonex, Hydroxycut, etc). I have friends at Boston schools who regularly take 3 doses of 250mg (one red bull ~ 80mg) per day alongside green tea extract. Saves time over making/buying coffee or sipping red bull and the pills kick in a lot faster. Doses this large also seem to have a "focusing effect".

Back to the main thread...

Mar 21, 2007

Hmm... trouble with caffeine pills is that they ulcerate the stomach lining at high dosage. Also, caffeine overdoses aren't as high as you might think. If you don't work up to it, you can overdose on relatively low quantities. Wikipedia lists 400 milligrams as a potential overdose, but I think that's laughably low.

I've had some really bad symptoms from around 2000 mg ingested from coffee, and the LD50 is only a few times higher than that. 750 mg/day is safer, but I wouldn't say it was safe.

Mar 21, 2007

Aad, in my opinion it's a sharper focus during crunch times plus decreased need for sleep. This comes with its own costs and risks, of course.

Mar 21, 2007

I think that it is funny how everyone cracks down hard on athletes who take steriods to enhance performance and therefore make more money, but bankers are doing the same thing, just a different type of performance enhancer. Guess you gotta do what you gotta do to make that money.

Mar 21, 2007

What you're talking about there is the level of the competition and what "fair" competition consists of.

There's no promise from any oversight commission to keep banking fair for all competitors. See, if sports were suddenly to begin permitting steroid use, then most if not all athletes would have to use them to remain competitive. The bodies of the players would change, but on a macro level, the way the sport is played wouldn't change much.

If banks suddenly started requesting random tests to make sure we weren't using Adderall, we wouldn't be able to use it... and then we'd be less able to work the hours expected of us. On a macro scale, less work would get done. Since we bankers bear the expense and risk of Adderall use in order to do what's expected of us, why would banks want to prevent us from doing so?

Do you really think banks don't believe that we do bad things to our bodies and minds in order to fulfill their expectations? Think about it.

  • justanotherbanker
  •  Mar 21, 2007

My guess is that this is partially attributable to the fact that performance enhancement at schools/banks is less visible to outsiders (especially to children).

I bet most 12 year-olds could tell you about steroid abuse in the MLB. I doubt that most 12 year-olds (or many adults, for that matter) are aware that there are 22 year-olds out there spending 100+ hours a week in cubicles and chasing pills with coffee and rockstar. Similarly, I can think of many more children who look up to Barry Bonds (or some college athletes) as role models than I can children who look up to analysts.

Apologies for the tangent...

Mar 21, 2007

i consider adderall one of my best friends.

  • justanotherbanker
  •  Mar 21, 2007

I think you're right that widespread steroid use in sports is zero-sum whereas it could be positive sum in banking.

My post (above) was to address the common "role model" justification for banning steroids.

Mar 21, 2007

I fully expected to see a plethora of Ind's posts in here, egging people on to take adderall lol.

Mar 21, 2007

Justanotherbanker, that was a far more elegant way of saying what I was trying to explain. Sadly, the intense competition that includes frequent all-nighters and amphetamine use is positive-sum in banking. Well, for the banks anyway.

Mar 21, 2007

Seanc, I've never told people to take Adderall. I just think it shouldn't be considered shameful to do so, and towards that end, I am willing to stand up and tell people I take it (as well as the reasons why). Not everyone in every group will need stimulants to survive as an analyst, but I (among others) do.

Let's see you run your two-year stint. That will give you the validity you need in order to claim that pharmaceuticals are an unnecessary crutch and that those who rely on them are weak. I'm sure you'll find your own way to survive back-to-back all-nighters with no significant rest on either end.

Along similar lines, I take a pretty goodly amount of melatonin and Vitamin D as well. This is because those who severely lack sun exposure (like native tribes of the Arctic and analysts in winter) risk long-term deficiencies. If the hazards of the profession are such that they need to be dealt with medically... well then, you deal with them medically. Such is life.

Mar 21, 2007

No need to get so defensive Ind, I just think that people underestimate their own capacity for long hours, I've stayed awake for two days straight many times without so much as a cup of coffee, and I think most people can do so too if they just try.

But then again, to each his/her own, I have no beef with people who need drugs to do their job well.

Mar 21, 2007

Seanc, staying up two days straight is all fine and well... but when it comes in the middle of a month when you've been getting less than five hours of sleep a night, when you need to perform flawlessly and with total efficiency, it becomes much less feasible.

I think at this point I don't need to elaborate everything I've done in my life in order to say that "Just try" is a fine philosophy that definitely has its limits.

Seriously, though, you get tired after weeks of sleep deprivation. Me, I'm pretty damned tired right now. So if the college kid has got a lust for all-nighters, why don't I email you these nineteen comps and you can bang them out for me by midnight while I catch some z's? Then I'll tell you how to build the charts, add medians, format the y-axes, and massage the data into presentation shape. You'll get to learn a lot, and I'll just wake up and start scrubbing at 5 AM.

Should be no challenge for the Real Man since he gets plenty of sleep in college, right? You DO read French and German, right?

  • justanotherbanker
  •  Mar 21, 2007

Seanc and Mis Ind -

I notice that both of you acknowledge the difficulty of staying awake for three straight days. It sounds like where you diverge is your willingness/ability to take a chance on a substance-free three days. Mis Ind, you clearly work at a bank right now. The potential downside to the no-substance gamble is clearly much higher for you than for Seanc. IMHO, I don't think Seanc was trying to get in your face -- you two just face unambiguously different constraints.

Mar 21, 2007

Can someone PM a referral to a doctor in NYC that is a little "loose" with scrips?

Mar 21, 2007

Justanotherbanker, Seanc's typical mode of approach to females on this board is chronic pestering and accusations of lying, faking, and so forth, combined with random assertions of total dominance due to his possession of a nebulous quality called Real Manhood (capitalization is his).

I've found that the best way to handle it is directly: to call him on his BS, and to let any readers who actually care make their own judgements.

  • justanotherbanker
  •  Mar 21, 2007

Got it

Mar 21, 2007

Mis Ind, I would love to help you out but I can't tonight, my favorite bar is having a $2 jello shots night and I can't miss it.

On a serious note, I'm not questioning your work ethic . I know you're Wonder Woman, I know you've been up for 15 days straight without sleep pounding out the comps, pitchbooks etc. I know you're the hardest working analyst on the Street, so do whatever you need to do to keep yourself going.

Mar 21, 2007

I just don't like to hear people complain and whine all the time, that's it.

Mis Ind waltzes in here trying to assert her superiority over everyone else like her's is the only opinion that counts.

Mar 21, 2007

This is the type of attack I'm referring to.

I'm just giving an opinion that readers can use (in combination with all the other bankers' opinions) to make their plans. Since people complain about the dearth of bankers willing to discuss their experiences in detail on this forum, I tend to try to pitch in for what it's worth. Readers can determine for themselves what my opinion is worth.

As for superiority... my friend, I'm an analyst. Despite the posturing of the wannabe-bankers and almost-bankers and gonna-be-bankers, real analysts are under no illusions as to their relative worth in the world. We are the very lowest of the low, the unsightly sweepings under the rug of real banking. The fact that we do the heavy lifting nets us exactly zero status. If we don't like the lot we're given, there's always somebody younger and fresher ready to say yes for less. Nearly every analyst I know is professionally a fairly humble person.

Mar 21, 2007

Allright Ind, I didn't realize you were so sensitive. I'll stop "attacking you". Last thing I want to do is deprive this board of your wise words, I might be thrown to the gallows if you leave.

Mar 21, 2007

What's with this passive aggressive BS? What are you, 15?

Mar 21, 2007

Seanc is 21.

Mar 21, 2007

I have no clue what you're talking about, I'm just speaking my mind fool.

Mar 21, 2007

Quick notes: I know addy use is rampant in any field where you need to do the most boring shit possible due in a short amount of time. I also don't go to Penn State, don't disgrace my name by associating me with that place.

Mar 21, 2007

I can see where people have concerns. Banking seems very much like Med School and residency, with similarly high stakes.

Seanc, please stop with the personal attacks on Mis Ind. If you're really in the industry, you should know that heated discussions are not uncommon, but puerile barbs are uncharacteristic.

Mar 22, 2007
passerby:

I can see where people have concerns. Banking seems very much like Med School and residency, with similarly high stakes.

Seanc, please stop with the personal attacks on Mis Ind. If you're really in the industry, you should know that heated discussions are not uncommon, but puerile barbs are uncharacteristic.

Nice try buddy, but she's engaged so keep it moving.

Too bad though, she's really into pseudo-intellectuals like yourself.

Mar 28, 2007
Seanc:
passerby:

I can see where people have concerns. Banking seems very much like Med School and residency, with similarly high stakes.

Seanc, please stop with the personal attacks on Mis Ind. If you're really in the industry, you should know that heated discussions are not uncommon, but puerile barbs are uncharacteristic.

Nice try buddy, but she's engaged so keep it moving.

Too bad though, she's really into pseudo-intellectuals like yourself.

My point holds, it seems.

Now a related topic that may be more familiar to students on this board:
In college, how common is drug use (broadly defined), and do the better students seem to rely on (il)legal medication?

Mar 21, 2007

Adderall is a very good, but not that commonly used, supplement in finance. It is better than Ritalin and way better than caffeine pills.

By not that commonly used, I mean most people use it, some secretly, but not that often.

Mar 22, 2007

Wouldn't coming off Adderall the next day just hurt your productivity then?

Mar 22, 2007

stay up until the weekend, crash saturday

Mar 22, 2007

Wait, wait... what kind of doses are you guys talking about here? I've never had my productivity hurt by coming off Adderall. That is, the next day I tend to return to my normal capacity. Maybe it's because I don't take more than one dose and don't take it often, but there's no low after the high. It just wears off after about sixteen hours and that's that.

I have heard about people needing to stay up until they can crash if they are taking absurd amounts of it -- say sixty or eighty milligrams, a dose of dextroamphetamine comparable to a fairly low average street dose of active racemic amphetamine (the stuff sold on the streets as "speed"). At that point, in my opinion, you're abusing amphetamines just like any speed freak on the street.

Folks, please be smart. If you are prescribed Adderall, don't take more at once or for longer than the doc prescribes. If you work hard enough at abusing it, you can do so. If you're planning out a crash, something is wrong.

Mar 22, 2007

Mis Ind and Sean are both right.

With respect to Sean, its easy to pull 50+ hours without sleeping. I used to do it pretty regularly in college. The thing is, you KNOW that you can crash after it. Even if you don't skip class, you can come home at 1pm and sleep for the next 18 hours if need be.

Thats not the case at a bank. You pull 2 all nighters, and then are expected to be 100%, or very close to it, on the third day...and that third day might be wednesday, so you still have a few more days before you can even think about sleeping more than 5 or so hours.

Mar 22, 2007

... Which was my point. It's the long-term sleep dep that makes it tough. At a certain point, when you haven't had a full set of REM cycles in weeks, "Just try" won't do the trick.

Mar 22, 2007

How about getting into this career because you like the work and not just for the money? That may help in escaping the temptations to use drugs in order to make it through the day.

Quote from Warren E. Buffett
"Moreover, we (Warren and Charlie Munger) have long had jobs that we love, in
which we are helped every day in countless ways by talented and cheerful associates. No wonder we tap-dance to work."

Do you think that Warren has to take drugs to make it through 16 hour days?

Mar 22, 2007

Warren Buffett is not in the investment banking industry. He's also the boss, so he sleeps when he needs to, goes to the doctor when he's sick, and maintains a culture in his company of appreciating and taking care of those who work hard for him. All due respects: that ain't IBD. Sorry. Berkshire is paradise; this is purgatory.

Additionally, if you need stimulants for 16-hour days, you're in the wrong field. 50-hour days, yes. 16, no.

Mar 22, 2007

haha I know that Buffett is not in the investment banking industry. I think you took my comment the wrong way. I was trying to say that one should not have to take drugs if that person enjoys work for the right reasons. Can you sit there and tell me that WB is in paradise (if paradise is defined by work hours instead of happiness) running an $82 billion company essentially by himself, Berkshire Hathaway has a total of 19 employees?

Mar 22, 2007

Okay... but you're still talking about two different industries. How many investment banking analysts are going to be working through all-nighters and weekends with no sleep and no thanks, taking emotional abuse, and still tap-dancing to work?

I'm not sure I know any investment-banking analysts who can tap-dance to work. If I ever meet one, I'll be edging away from him and keeping my eye on available exits, because it's those types that'll go postal and start capping off rounds.

I'm not saying you can't love what you do, of course. Hell, I love my work... my first twelve hours of work, that is. The second twelve hours aren't so great, the third twelve hours start to suck pretty bad, and everything after that is hell. It's not because I'm a bad banker or because I'm not cut out for the industry. It's because I'm a normal person with normal human needs like sleep, food, sunlight, sex, and recreation.

In short: No matter how much you love your work, if you're working 130-140 hour weeks, you can't really love your job.

Mar 22, 2007

consistently 130-140?

Mar 22, 2007

Sounds like MisInd doesn't have what it takes (aren't you a lot older than most analysts?)

Mar 22, 2007

Nope. I think the hardest-working guy in my group works consistent 110s with upper quartiles at around 135. I work very occasional 130-140s but 100 is much more normal.

My point is that you're not always gonna be tap-dancing to work with a big ol' shit-eating grin on your face. No matter how good a banker you are, no matter how much you love your work.

Comparing an investment banking analyst to Warren Buffett is like comparing a spork to a Metrocard: What the hell were you smoking?

Mar 22, 2007

Apparently some good shit

Mar 22, 2007

This board was not created for drama. All I was trying to say is that drugs should not have to be taken to do well at any job...

That is my opinion. You can have your own.

Mar 22, 2007

Yep, Popping. Those 140's do get to me at the ripe old age of twenty-five. I'm sure young bucks like you can work them while tap-dancing and without caffeine, then reserve the remaining 20-something hours for playing beer pong with your buds, but not me.

The truth is that I'm weak, and I'll gladly admit it. I actually get a little tired after missing two nights of sleep, particularly if I've been averaging four hours a night before that. All the meal-skipping, abuse-taking, and cleaning up after my superiors does actually take a bit of a toll on me, though it was fine for the first few months.

Feel free to say you can do better, my friend. Also, go ahead and tell me about your worst week. Unless it was upwards of 160 hours and included six live deals, you'll probably risk some non-banker scoffing at you for your weakness. Even then, some kid will post claiming he's worked a 168. Credentials are fast and loose on this board, bien sur.

Mar 22, 2007

Oh, I agree completely. No one should have to take stimulants of any kind to do well in investment banking. However, the requirements in some groups and in some situations are too high for us to meet flawlessly without stimulants.

As a group, we analysts are not too weak for banking. It's the expectations placed on us that are unrealistic.

Mar 22, 2007

That is something we can all agree upon.

Mar 22, 2007

Ms Ind this is purely out of curiosity (don't take any offense), but how do you have so much time to post on this board when you are constantly working 100+ hours a week? do you have loads of downtime?

Mar 22, 2007
sshiah:

Ms Ind this is purely out of curiosity (don't take any offense), but how do you have so much time to post on this board when you are constantly working 100+ hours a week? do you have loads of downtime?

She's addressed this numerous times. You're not doing work all the time; you have to wait for revisions and corrections from VPs and Associates.

Mar 22, 2007

Yep. The more time I spend at work, the more I post. I wouldn't post from home when I could be sleeping or having fun.

Most analysts have to spend hours every day waiting for turns, waiting for other analysts to do work, waiting for explanations or comments, and so forth. On top of that, it sometimes benefits an analyst to slow down the pace of his/her work in order to reduce the number of turns possible before a meeting (especially if it's already a foregone conclusion that no one will leave the office until the meeting).

For instance, right now I'm working on an assignment. The associate doesn't need it until tomorrow, and I could have been done with it already. However, if I turned it in now, the associate would read through it and give it back to me with comments to be turned tonight while he's at home. If I wait a few hours and give it to him then, he will send me home and look at it tomorrow. Thus, I get a free evening. Maybe.

And no, I don't do this when it could be obvious that I'm stalling. Only when a delay is permissible, understandable, and when my bandwidth is too opaque to be easily tracked.

Mar 22, 2007

I definately agree with people who say you shouldn't need to be taking drugs at work. In the UK it is a lot harder to get drugs you don't legitimately need as most of the cost is out of the government's purse.
I personally just try and drink coffee as rarely as possible so that when I actually do drink it there is some effect. At the extreme a caffine pill.
Who knows though, are people who take this stuff people who used to need a lot of sleep before they started banking? Maybe its because even in school I slept 5-6hrs that it doesn't seem that difficult to me personally...

Mar 28, 2007

Guys, were talking ibanking here, not rocket science. Theres two types of analyst: the guy that pulls the all nighters does the comps, the precedents and is too tired to cross the finish line, and the guy that cuts all the corners and gets the credit by going to the pub with his MD. Once needs drugs to perform, the other one doesn't. Pick the winner.

"LIVING THE DREAM 24/7 ON http://THEALLNIGHTER.BLOGSPOT.COM"

Mar 28, 2007

Personally? I first became familiar with Adderall use when it became clear that around half of the top 10% of students in my undergraduate business school were consistently using it to fuel intense study sessions. An acquaintance of mine was the supplier to most of these people, it seems.

It was an extraordinarily competitive school if you were going for finance. Adderall use was one competitive tactic among many.

Mar 29, 2007

Miss Ind, what were some of the other tactics?

Apr 7, 2011

this thread is fucking inspiring and deserves to be dug up

mis ind props to you wherever you are

Apr 7, 2011
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"I did it for me...I liked it...I was good at it. And I was really... I was alive."

Apr 8, 2011
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Apr 8, 2011
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"I did it for me...I liked it...I was good at it. And I was really... I was alive."

Apr 9, 2011
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Went from a poetry major to finance... funny how life works isn't it?

Apr 9, 2011
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No rain drop ever blames itself for the flood.