Hello all,
Investment banking is a great career, and the bulge bracket banks, middle markets, and elite boutiques are all clearly great places to work for. But I can't imagine that working at just any old investment bank will bring you all of the perks? (prestige, pay, etc.) Is there a certain tier of banking where you draw a line in the sand?
This is not meant to be a negative question, but simply as a way to find out where in the tiers of investment banking is a career worthwhile.
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Regional boutiques can be iffy for sure. You will get the benefits at BBs, MMs and EBs
There is a certain kind of trade off though. I know guys at regional boutique working 60 hour weeks when it's light and only 80-90 when it gets rough. I'm sure compensation is not the same but it seems like a good spot if you don't want to burn out.
Totally agree. There are some advantages to these regional MM/boutiques. For one as you mentioned the hours are not nearly as stressful as larger banks especially in non-NYC cities. Additionally, for people working at these regional shops in cities other than the major financial hubs, often times the exits can be good as well because of a lack of supply of IB experienced candidates.
Good Lord.
BB or bust!
Can;t believe this kid isn't getting firebombed for these Financial Services 101 questions.
Yeah, it was my first reaction too but I decided to engage. That gayball avatar isn't helping him out though.
Eh. Isn't that why the site exists? It lets people use anonymity ask these "stupid" questions that they might not know if they don't have exposure before, without getting lit up or harming themselves during a real informational interview.
Hey, we all start somewhere.
The problem is that you don't know how to use a search bar.
I just rolled through weeks of your shitty threads to throw monkey shit at you because I value people not being complete fuckheads.
I'm not rolling through weeks worth of wso threads; I value efficiency.
I'll bet you do Charles Ritman
If you value efficiency so much, just go take a job at McDonald's. I heard they're pretty efficient.
I would generally only work for a firm that gives me an offer... otherwise its not going to be as prestigious. That's me though, others may have differing opinion.
While the rest of your threads might be repetitive garbage, I think this is a pretty valid question. The way people make it seem on this site is that it is IBD or bust. But in reality, there are some garbage ass IBs out there. I would probably stay away from starting full time at a boutique if it has only one or two tiny deals a year and the MD does not have a solid background in IB.
Think about it, three significant reasons why people do IB 1. Money 2. Exit Opps 3. Prestige
At a crappy boutique with little fees from deal flow, you will get 1) Much less money 2) Not very good exit opps, especially if the MD/partner is unknown 3) Little prestige
Like I said there are trade offs to being at a small boutique. Money is less but odds are if its a small boutique you're in a small city with a lower COL. Exit ops aren't great, it'll be hard to even make a MM PE fund, but I think people who go to small boutiques are in it for the long haul. Finally, there are some people who don't chase the prestige... Why does someone even need to know you're a banker? That doesn't make you a good person or an interesting person. Personally, I think it's a little too arrogant, just tell people you work at a bank or you work in finance.
Yep that.
And keep in mind quality can vary WIDELY even between no-name boutiques. I work at a "no-name" boutique that closes a large number of deals every year. There's under 10 bankers and we've closed 3 since I started at the end of the summer.
Others are well.....maybe 1 or two a year.
Hi Guys
Interesting thread and thanks for posing the question as I have similar thoughts. I'm currently based in South Africa and planning to apply and go into investment banking next year.
We do have the BB banks here like Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, UBS etc which are based in Johannesburg as well as Barclays. However I initially would love to get into a BB Bank but some say the local banks like Rand Merchant Bank (RMB) or Standard bank aren't too bad especially RMB is known locally for corporate finance in South Africa...
Any thoughts guys? I was also considering if I should just try applying for a BB bank in the states or Singapore/Hong Kong as well.
There is a line somewhere. Tobin & Co. is definitely below that line.
Yes, would definitely draw the line at Tobin and Co.
Tobin and Co is an Investment Blank
Is it worth getting into I-Banking??? (Originally Posted: 12/28/2007)
is it really worth it??? especially now when the time is so bad to get into it..... How about a starting fortune 500 corp finance job not in NYC thats starts at 50-60 grand a year, plus good benefits. you would obviously work more then 40 hours a week but not even close to ibanking hours......
Dont they say you'll double ur salary within 5 years??? so that means that at around 26, you will make over 100 grand, and not live in such an expensive city like NYC
It's always worth it. I wouldn't say now is a bad time to get into it - it's just more difficult to get a position.
Working in NYC looks better on a resume than arguably anywhere else (except maybe London)
I'm not sure if i agree with "Working in NYC looks better on a resume than arguably anywhere else (except maybe London)"
it may be cool to say u worked in NYC, but im not sure about how it looks better on ur resume to make a substantial difference to getting another job. I'm sure if you worked in Chicago, LA, San Fran, or any other major city in the U.S., that you would be looked down upon compared to NYC
dude, 100k in 5 years in banking doesn't happen - but 300k does. 100k is pittance in the banking world, but yes, hours are much better on the outside.
it would be better for you to work in S&T if you want the $$$ and the quality of life.
it depends what you're looking for, what your focus is. if you are thinking long term, the exit ops in i-banking are tremendous. few can compete with that statement.
yes, the hours right now suck....hardcore. your private life is on a 2-3 year long hiatus, as is your ability to manage any "free time." but afterwards, you're not going to regret a moment of it. whether it is a b-school you're looking at, private equity, etc., you will have a competitive edge.
however, if you're looking for a fun lifestyle for the next couple of years, stay away from banking. as mentioned above, the "fun" and "lifestyle" don't really mesh in banking.
up to you, i guess. i'm not saying you can't achieve great things without investment banking experience--that is obvious bull. countless examples to prove that. but it definitely helps a lot.
I mentioned this on another post recently, but it seems relevant here: If you are planning a long career in banking, and you believe in market cycles, then there is no better time to start at the bottom of finance then in a down market. Yes, the first few years are a ton of work, and it will feel like you are being underpaid (especially per hour), but the difference in analyst comp between good years and bad years is maybe $50K, tops. On the other hand, if you are an MD, a down year could diminish your bonus by hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars. Heck, the top guys at Bear and MS are taking $0 bonuses this year. If you start now, you should be able to ride the next bull market as you rise through the ranks. If you can get a job, and yes, that is hard now, the market is no reason not to take it.
btw, ratul is right, $100K+ is what you will make in your first year in banking, and you can expect that to go up by $50-100K per year. Now that I reread your OP, though, it sounds like you are talking about doubling your salary in the F500 job, not banking. In that case, it's a bit less predictable and depends a lot on the company. The long-term comp growth is typically much slower than banking though, with significantly fewer people (read:C-level execs only) reaching $1M+/yr.
"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead."
Do you (plural) think it would only apply to IBD or any division in finance? (i.e. S&T, Research.. )
You will have a much better life and time to do other things with that Fortune 500 corp finance job. The exit opportunities will not be nearly as good, but you could always go to business school and transition into banking like that... will be difficult to get a PE or HF job out of business school without banking experience though.
Banking will provide a (nearly) risk-free way to make a lot of money, but you do have to sacrifice your life for a few years. If you don't care that much about money, don't do it.
And you'll make way more than $100K within 5 years of doing banking... try 3-4x that amount, if not more since you'll be a 2nd year Associate by then.
first, thank you all so much for your replys.
I have another quick question........
Is this possible....
Work at a fortune 500 company out of college for a few years. Get your MBA......(the company pays for the mba, but not sure what the deal is, if ur going to leave), and then transition to i-banking in the mid-late 20's.
I believe in my current situation (non-target, not outstanding GPA), that this is the only possibility if IB is in my future.
Thanks.
Do you go to UCLA like your login would indicate? If you do, that is a great school and you should be able to get a good amount of interviews. Even if you go elsewhere or have a poor GPA, don't just write off ibanking. If it is what you really want to do you should look for non-traditional ways to get some interviews, like talking to alumni, friends, etc. Some boutique investment banks don't really target any schools, they just hire based on recommendations and resumes which come their way, so that might be a way to get in somewhere.
And as an answer to your question, yes you can always go get your MBA then jump to ibanking. You will most likely come in at an associate level. That being said I really doubt that your company would pay for your MBA if you dont go back there, so you will need to take that into account.
Yes, very possible and a common move. That's actually exactly what I'm trying to do now (applying to b-schools). Only part I don't know about is the company paying for it, but if that is a problem just take out loans. You will easily pay them down within the first few years of banking.
A little advice: start preparing for the b-school application process now. Think about who your recommenders will be (your boss and maybe their boss, or an indirect manager) and develop a strong relationship with them (and work your ass off for them). Carefully track your work progress and accomplishments, keeping a detailed "extended resume" to refer back to for essays. Develop meaningful, regular extracurricular activities (e.g. community service, sports, etc.) that you spend a significant amount of time on and take leadership roles in where possible. Demonstrable accomplishments like climbing a mountain, running a marathon, organizing a fundraiser, etc. are great too. The last thing you want is for the adcoms to think you work 40 hours a week (or 60 even) and then just sit on the couch the rest of the time. Finally, take the GMAT early and do whatever you need to do to get a killer score (take a class, etc.). Scores are good for 5 years so there's no reason to wait.
"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead."
Yes, i do go to UCLA, but in my opinion, i knwo alot of ppl will disagree, I would rather work for a ocmpany like Johnson and Johnson, Unilever, P&G, GE, or Coca cola or something like that.
I also received offers from some banks but not any investment banking positions. From what I heard, it is very hard to get into i-banking at a company if u get in first and do something not related to i-banking. Is this true??
thanks
whoops, i just looked and realized i have offers from fortune 25 companies........ so better then 500.
Great for you. Sounds like you have zero interest in finance - stay far away from banking.
I'm gonna have to agree with CDNmonkey on this one. You need to think about what your goals are. Is it to make a lot of money? Is it to have great exit opportunities? Regardless, you need to have a passion for what you do. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for failure.
i have to say, for most people, IB isnt the right choice. I am a money hungry success fiend, but I still hold onto the idea that your youth is by far more important than money. if you like finance in general, go into S&T, or take the fortune 500 job. so waht if you dont hit 500k before 30, you have an entire life to get rich, you only have a short period of time to be young.
Closer, I really haven't read up on S&T to really know what it's about, but how is it different hourwise?
Why don't you get an offer as an IB analyst first and then ask if it's worth it or not.
UCLA is a target for every BB...btw
Are you a graduate or undergrad student? UCLA does not offer undergraduate degrees in business administration, does it? So, if UCLA is a target for every BB, they're probably looking fro Grad students, aren't they?
Just curious...
im an econ major......... i wonder how many ppl decided they wanted to be investment bankers after seeing pursuit of happyness. (NOT ME)
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