Asian name on resume
I am an international student and a rising junior at a semi-target/low target school.
When crafting my resume, is it advisable for me to create an English name (the likes of John/Dan) to fend off xenophobia? Or should I just go by my real name, which all of my friends and previous employers call me?
In other words, is it okay to go by Dan Lee or Min Lee (short version of real name) instead of stating my full legal name on resume? (Min Lee versus Min Soo Lee, for instance - this is a common Korean name and is totally made up. Not my real name)
Thank you!
Umm, is a company that would pass on you because you're Asian the kind of company you want to work for?
A lot of companies would do this, though obviously they wouldn't admit to it.
Which ones? Care to comment? Can't be a hedge fund since there's tons of Asian running around in them. All the banks have tons of Asians and historically, Asians don't stay at bulge brackets as they jump ship to buyside. The old school mega PE-funds maybe but look at the roster of senior dudes and you'll see that there's some REALLY senior Asian guys there. Blackstone has Michael Chae, KKR has Herald Chen, Silverlake has Ken Hao, etc. Not to mention all these businesses have Asian offices with senior partners who sit on mgmt. committeees etc. There's also tons of Indians too if you include them as Asian in very senior positions.
So no, don't hide who you are and honestly like the previous posters say, if they're going to discriminate, then don't work there. And for all those people who SB'ed esuric's comment, you're an idiot
I think in general, while there are obviously individuals who actively and knowingly discriminate, there is a subconscious component to discrimination. Doesn't mean that an individual who subconsciously discriminates is a bad person, but I think that someone very well could look at your resume and ding you where they wouldn't have dinged a white candidate.
That being said, my two cents: You're Min Lee and you're damn proud of it. Don't change your name for these bastards.
TBH, I do know that some very old fashioned guys are a little weird about hiring from Asia. Personally, I don't care, the worst I will do is ask for the correct pronunciation of your name from one of the guys or ultimately you if I am going to make a hash of it.
In saying that, do not be surprised to be assigned a nickname pretty quickly if you name is long/difficult to pronounce/you do something stupid
As long as you speak English fluently (assuming that you included that on your resume), then it doesn't matter.
The U.S is not a xenophobic country where employers discriminate against applicants.
I wouldn't be nervous about discrimination.
People can throw monkey shit all they want, but according to census data Asians are the most prosperous group in the U.S by income. If there were widespread Asian discrimination this clearly wouldn't be the case. He should use whatever name he prefers.
OP is a bilingual student at a good school. I have a feeling that he will land a good internship.
I'd disagree with the posts above. Your name can definitely have an effect on whether you receive an interview. Take a look at this study: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/17/jobs-search-hiring-racial…
I have the most Asian name ever, and it also pretty long and difficult. But I have never had any problems with that as far I can tell. Also, I can see that Asians are the biggest minority group in a lot of firms.
Asians are smart, so for certain jobs it could be a plus.
Korean names are easier to pronounce. Chinese a little harder but still doable.
no offence to SE Asians, particularly Vietnamese folk, but some of you have names that would guarantee a non interview, e.g:
Phuc Dat Bich - real name.
East Asians would generally be better off by having a westernised first name though
But relax guys. I reckon South Indians have it the worst and also some middle eastern names too - no racist.
e.g. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
Chinese names hard - they're 2 maybe 3 damn letters fu, wang, ho, li list goes on and on. Now try your hands at malaysian names and even the scripps national spelling bee champ is in for an upset.
I'm Vietnamese and no offence taken, but I can assure you that you got trolled/misled. Phuc Dat Bich is no way in hell a real name.
Ok look I had quite a few Viet friends too back in school and most of them were either - trans or mins etc, so pretty simple.
but is it not the case that all those words specifically are real Vietnamese words.
relax I pity Indian guys with the name: Hardik
Or a school friend who had Fucked up parents because his name legit was: Neil Downward- yes he swings the other way now too, much much more.
Anyways fuck names this is America, a
Barack Hussein Obama was once the POTUS.
Ban Ki Moon was the Secretary General of the UN.
So do what you like, but to keep it safe get it westernised if you must.
although I cringe every time I meet a bespectacled nerdy Asian dude from HK called Milton Wong
Or Winston Chan
the Brits are gone guys, HK is free, so what's with the bullshit upperclass English names?
A buddy of mine use to be an M&A analyst now PE associate had the last name wang and for the sake of not revealing his identity...imagine the puns you could make with the last name wang as well
Wang hmm not ideal. But probably a smart dude though.
Wang PC - any of you guys remember that tech bygone tech behemoth?
Solid post bro. But "fark that bitch" not real. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-34918491
All right man. Good research!
Let's be realistic here.
Unless you're applying for the HK office where a Chinese name would make the HR think you are not those ABCs that only speak kitchen Chinese, always put an English name on your resume. Always. You would be f**king surprised to know how huge a difference it makes, especially for international students.
e.g. John (Min Soo) Lee or John Min Soo Lee
It's a heads-up for whoever will be reading your resume that this person is 'one of the converts'.
Wouldn't you be lying on the resume if you do not really have a English name? What if you get the job and they do the background check?
Most international students with english names just make the name for themselves at some point, usually when they move to the states. You don't need the name to be on any official documents, just make one for yourself at any point and use it. It has nothing to do with lying or background checks.
Just put whatever name you want on your resume, and use your real name for official documents where they need to match your ID/passport (like when they ask you to fill out your background check form). For some application forms, you can put your real name and then put your english name as "preferred name".
Having a preferred name is a very popular practise. How is that lying?
Leaving your Asian name out won't hurt your chances so I think you might as well. You don't want to be perceived as someone who doesn't speak English well.
True story: I have a very European name (think Luc de La Barre de Nanteuil vs. Sam Jones) and I had one or two interviewers remark that, "Yeah, we weren't sure whether or not you'd speak English very well, but you're doing great!"
For the record, I'm American...
"keep it up!" smh
It could also work for you if you want to move to Europe some day or want to interview for a position with a European angle
Better to do English name (actual name) last name, people do discriminate.
I would put a preferred English / American name on.
Indians often have as difficult, if not more difficult, names as East Asians do and you never see them changing their names.
Have some respect for yourself – use your real name. I cringe every time I see someone acting like they're ashamed of their own name and tell people to call them something generic like "John" or "Mike." I've never gone by anything other than my actual, and obviously foreign, name but have never run into any issues.
I have met people with the weirdest English "names", such as Apple and Polar. Some people just do not know what they are doing. Their foreign names would be much better than these new preferred names.
It's stupid to suggest that people have any less respect for themselves just because they want to use a different name. Why would you judge people based on what they want to call themselves? It's their choice. If you have to "cringe" every time someone asked to call them by a preferred name it says more about your character than theirs.. don't understand why you would consider yourself to be any superior because you use your real name.
Respectfully disagree. Firstly, never said I consider my self superior to anyone so no need to insult my character.
Secondly, have you ever known anyone from a Nordic country who elected to go by an Americanized name because it was easier? No, they take pride in their heritage and demonstrate the pronounciation of their name to you until you get it right.
Compare this to someone from China who, generalizing for simplicity's sake, will blush and laugh about their own name as if it's totally natural for it to be unpronounceable before telling someone to call them 'John.'
Who would you be more instinctively be inclined to respect?
I faced the same problem, I just put my English name on my resume and there was no issue. Once I got the offer I signed everything from HR with my official (Chinese) name and no one asked any questions. Already working full time so I don't think using your English name will raise any issues.
Having a foreign sounding name makes a difference to some people. Source: I have seen it happen on my team.
One of my Asian friends used Raiden, even though it's vastly different from his original name. He just thought it sounded cool, after somebody suggested putting it on his resume, during sophomore SA interview season. Only later, during the interviews, he realized his mistake, after some of the interviewers began quizzing him on the Mortal Kombat universe. But since it built the conversation, he decided to stick with it.
That's actually a pretty awesome name. Raiden Chang.
I'd say go with Hulk or MaxXximus as a first name.
High-risk, high-reward. But he's going to have to risk it for the biscuit coming from a low target.
I think I'll name my firstborn Maximus, and my second Spartacus.
An English name helps, as long as it's more of a traditional name, e.g. Ben, rather than some of these "cool" and "English(!?)" names people in East Asia decide to adopt like "Angelababy" or "Gayzer" or "Alien" or "Rainbow" or "Happy"...
Source: Chinese
My name is Fook Yu Ma Ma....but you can just call me Bob.
Before you get interview, an American name helps
The second you get into verbal communication, accent matters.
Just put down John Doe...or alternatively John Q. Public
Use an American name. Preferably something easy and recognizable. Old white American guys in finance (and generally) have this concept of a "strong name". That's coded language for an easy name to recognize that they can actually pronounce. Make up a name if you have to and get used to people calling you that name. It will help immensely. Anyone who tells you different hasn't had to struggle with the issue.
change it to Long Duc Dong
I've dated a number of Asian women and my business partner is Asian. All of them have gone by some random "American" name while keeping their "Asian" last name. It's not a big deal to throw an American name onto your resume. If nothing else, it will help people feel more comfortable pronouncing your name during first interaction with you who don't have a prior relationship wth you.
BTW, it's not xenophobia--it's that the Asian tongue is very difficult for English speakers, so Asian names can be crazy difficult for some of us.
Hi, I was wondering if I take the opposite position and choose to go by my real name. My body cringes at the idea of somebody calling me by an "American name." My real name is relatively easy to pronounce. Do you think this will lower my odds of passing resume screening?
Thank you
I can imagine how annoying that would be. I think for SOME employers having an English name ON YOUR RESUME might indicate that you are...more Americanized(?), i.e. can speak English. I think once you're hired going by your real name would be fine. Actually, it would be fine either way, I'm just talking about what's "easiest."
You should do like the Thai kids who use everyday objects as a first name. I know kids who named themselves Beer, Bomb, Golf, Pee etc.
I am also Vietnamese, but I use an English name from time to time to help people. I have been told by MDs and other managers that having an American "nickname" does help.
I fail to pronounce most Thailand names.
I fail to pronounce most Russian names.
I'm in a very technology heavy trading role, so I've got more than a few Chinese natives in my group. They all had their directory names and emails changed to American names. In fact, I didn't even know those weren't their real names until I saw their ID badges.
Probably best to go with an American name.
I would just get myself an English name. It helps. Southeast Asia here. I told my brother to get a second name on his passport. He assimilated into US culture pretty well and it made his life a lot easier.
For Example: Real (Thai) Name: Mr. Banthoon Lamsam Second Name: Mr. Nicolas Lee
But Naoki Hanzawa is pretty cool enough, especially with all that swag in your eyes when you're hell-bent on raping your employer.
Naoki Hanzawa is actually the name of a fictional character in the famous Japanese TV series named "Hanzawa Naoki". It follows the story of Hanzawa Naoki, a banker working for the largest bank in Japan, Tokyo Chuo Bank. He faces numerous obstacles from upper management as he climbs his way up the ranks. Supposedly, it was a real life story of a banker in today's The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ (MUFG).
There are too many replies on this thread. Seriously, just make up an English name. No, it doesn't have to be official. But if you have an official English name, then use it. Lee can actually be a white name too, so Dan Lee would bode well. FYI for other Asians: You can even transliterate some Asian last names:
Man --> Manne Lok --> Locke Yeung/Yang --> Young
Anyone who thinks this isn't a smart thing to do clearly needs some life experience. Do what you gotta do to get that offer, man.
Isn't it only required to change the first name? After all, even some whiteboi last names are unpronounceable.
I've had good and bad experiences with both sides of it: - Had a Chinese analyst with a western name, they actually sent her for language classes, we couldn't tell if the bad work was due to a lack of skill, or a lack of comprehension - Had another analyst with a very Chinese name, studied at Oxford, spoke better English than most of her year
Also, depends on what group / bank OP wants to work with, if you want to join an Asian bank, or a team focusing on growth in Asian markets, might be best to have the Chinese name up front.
Use your english/anglo name on your resume, and official given name on all HR/onboarding related documents (if you get offered you can even have them put you English name as you email, if you'd like). The people who say it doesn't matter are either naive or have no experience in the matter. Right or wrong people will make assumptions based on the name they see on the resume. Best not to start off on a potential disadvantage if its avoidable.
Take a look at my post here:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/should-i-accept-my-offer-is-it-b…
Change your name or not, it probably won't matter. What you should do is make it explicitly clear that you have the necessary language skills so you don't get weeded out in resume review. The other way to do that is by simple networking.
Absolutely would recommend picking up an American name and putting that on your resume. Don't even bother putting your real, Asian name in the middle or in parentheses. The resume is just to get past a first screen and best to avoid any potential prejudices. I know it sounds racist (and probably is) but if the last interview slot comes down to Min Soo Lee and Dan Lee, assuming the rest of the resume is comparable, most firms will probably feel more comfortable with Dan Lee. Background checks are not an issue, you'll fill out those forms later where you'll provide your legal name, along with the preferred name.
I know this isnt an asian name, but would people not give me an interview since alot of people cannot pronounce my name(Rasmus). Im from Denmark btw.
Yes. I would recommend you change your name to Craig.
I was thinking more like John
That's actually a tough one to pronounce. I hate to say it, but there may be a case for a change here.
How the hell is "Rasmus" hard to pronounce?
Hell, when I got walked around the office, the Director, who was Eastern European, couldn't pronounce my name, so for the next six months to a year the MDs called me by the wrong name, just rolled with it. It ended up working out to help me find out which MDs gave a crap, was at the Christmas party and two MDs corrected the third's pronunciation.
The amount of racist idiocy on this page is outstanding.
If you actually go by a different name, put that on your resume If you have only an Asian name, and you're willing to make up a BS name just for a job interview, you need to go take a real good hard look at what you want to be doing in life
Yes there's racism out there, yes there will be some idiot who won't want to interview you because you're Asian - such is life but I gotta tell you. If that guy is racist, your last name will give it away so what's the point? You're willing to white wash yourself for a slightly higher % chance of getting an interview?
It is understandable you'd be insecure and want a good shot but your resume should be more than just your name. Also resume picks are done by large groups of people and I can tell you, resume picks at all BB firms are done by a VERY diverse group of people that HR sees to (i.e., they make sure there's sufficient women, minorities etc.)
One thing to note though, Asians do not count as protected minorities in the workplace at banks.
Just food for though
' doesn't your last paragraph therefore imply that Asians perhaps have an added burden of having to neutralise their name, albeit first one, if, as you say, they are not a protected minority,
Agree with this so much
Point of my last comment is that there are enough successful Asians in finance that it's no longer a problem and that's why its not a protected minority.
This is one of the dumbest, serious posts on WSO I've ever read. "Racism" and "white washing" have nothing to do with it. As others have pointed out, an FOB Asian name may indicate difficulty in verbal communication because--surprise, surprise!--Asian languages are radically different than English; English is very difficult to master at a professional fluency for non-native speakers. My Chinese business partner (a naturalized citizen who has been in the U.S. for 16 years) is a strong professional writer of English but struggles mightily on the phone because of such a heavy accent. It's a very real problem. The last thing many people want to do on a resume is to highlight that they are recent Asian immigrants to the U.S. and may not be able to speak English at professional fluency. That's not racism or self-hatred.
That's not what half these posts are trying to imply first of all. Second of all, if the candidate can't speak English, getting an interview doesn't help. Third of all, I do not know of a single colleague who will look at a name and say wow this kid doesn't speak English. They will look at his academic background. In any case, the first few posts on this thread simply said yes change your name because there are racist white dudes running around. So before you give me shit - actually read what was written
The fact that you don't think "its such a big deal" to ask someone to change their name is ignorance at best and veiled racism at worst
There's also some Americans who struggle mightily with spoken English. Regardless, a name on a resume is not an indicator of your ability to communicate. IF you have communication issues, that in of itself is a bigger hurdle, even if you get the interview.
I'd go for something that sounds more American like Mike Litoris.
I love how some of the posts above just blantly said 'choose an American name'.
Come the f on, it's called an English name. You speak American English which is still English...
I mean I don't think it matter - at my firm there's like 3 guys named Ling and a few named other Asian names.
....but wait, there's also about 24 Steves, 13 Bobs, 9 Tylers, 19 Jeffs, and so on.....
I have heard people say "he's a quant" when they see Asian names. If they are smaller places then there's definitely room for discrimination based on name. People with limited time and no HR don't want to go through 500 resumes, and they end up profiling
The topic starter is from a non-target school. Why lower chances even more and play with fire (i.e. use a non-American name)?
I've already started networking and introduced myself by my real name. Do you think I should go by an "American name" moving forward? I'm from Korea, but I grew up abroad so I don't have an Asian accent. I'm fine once I'm on the phone or once I have face-time with recruiters/alumni, but I'm worried I won't past the initial resume screening. Thanks!
I'd go with the American name. You can put both on the resume Korean (American) or other way around.
Yes, change it.
Don't ever use the world "xenophobia" again you weak little runt. You should be kissing the ground Americans walk on. If it weren't for us you'd be starving for a half cup of noodles while praying to a picture of Kim Jung.
Come to our country and adapt. If you're in America, you better damn well become American.
lol. can you help me become American? been here for couple years but its been difficult
American name should be just fine.
Also wear a trump hat.
Ohh look, a Trump worshipper on wall street... Better than a Soroa sucker I suppose.
Lol this guy doesn't work on Wall Street, read his posts. I think this thread could be a lot worse. What if your name sounded very ghetto? Pretty much shit out of luck.
There is nothing wrong with a nickname. I am white, I have an extremely white name that is easy to pronounce. I go by a nickname out of circumstance but theres a benefit Ive noticed that makes me think If I didnt already have one I would use one anyway ...
It creates familiarity. Makes you stand out. Makes you seem like a friend when people call you it. Buzz, Ace, Zee, Zed, Bobby, Jay, anything with a quality of authenticity - but if you are picking it your self able to back it up with an anecdote, and be ready to go by that at work.
Your job is not the place to take a stand against perceived social inequality, racism or whatever the fuck. Especially not a job like IB that is extremely competitive. You can go about changing the world after your first billion. Today, just focus on getting the job.
As long as your name isn't Hung Lo, you should get an english sounding name.
As an Asian-American with an non-"American" name who's lived here for about 16 years of my life, reading some of the responses is a bit unsettling. Although it is true that some candidates from Asia may have lesser abilities in English, there are still a large portion of Asian-Americans and Asians self-taught/educated in international/American schools that are native English speakers. Going to a semi-target/target school should be evidence enough that the candidate can speak English fine.
Although this sort of bias is not necessarily racism, it's still a problem with perception and ignorance in a white dominated industry.
What I advise clients is this -- the resume is usually the first point of contact that someone has of you before they even see you in person.
And that top section with your contact info is very important for a very human reason: when we meet someone for the first time (even if it's virtually), we can't help but want to know basics: are you a man or woman, what's your cultural background/nationality/ethnicity, where are you from/currently based. That's why even before they get to the rest of the resume, just your name and contact info can say a lot.
With Chinese and Korean names in particular, it's a practical issue. Outside of Chinese or Korean speaking folks, it's simply hard to tell whether the person is a man or woman based on the name alone. This has nothing to do with prejudice, racism, etc - it's just that as people, when this kind of info is not clear, it can throw you off just a bit even if gender or cultural background have nothing to do with the job (or that the person has no strong prejudices). It's not make or break, but if the person has no problems with having an English first name, I tend to recommend that they put it on there [example: Song Hyun (Michael) Kim]
On the other hand, with Indians and Japanese names it's easier to keep it as is, simply because it's easier for folks to identify gender right away based on the name. But if they want to put an English first name by all means it's cool. I've even seen some Indians condense their surnames (so their legal name is still 50 syllables long, but their given name they use in business and everyday life is something like "Vik Anand")
This also goes beyond just ethnicity, but connotation when it comes to western names.
Jimmy McGill Jim McGill James McGill James McGill, Jr. (or James McGill III)
All the same variation, but have different connotations. The first one seems young (like you'd give a child). The second one feels more informal to neutral. The third one a bit more formal but still neutral, and the fourth one definitely has some upper crust connotations (which may work in very specific instances, but most of the time will likely turn people off). Or just change your name to Saul Goodman that connotes a specific ethnicity. :)
The gender aspect is something I haven't thought that much about.. interesting. I'm surprised about the point that it is easier to identify gender with Japanese names though. Apart from some popular names that people might be familiar with, isnt' it essentially similar to Chinese and Korean in terms of difficulty in gender identification?
Perhaps, but maybe it's just me, even as an Asian. I find Japanese names easier to identify gender. But the reality is, the chances of coming across a Japanese first name in the English speaking world are far less than Korean, Chinese or South Asian names. If they're Japanese-American, almost always they'll have an English first name (like most Asian-Americans frankly, except for Indian-Americans where it's less common), and if they're pure Japanese, almost entirely they're resistant to assigning a given name anyhow.
With Chinese names it can be even tougher because you don't really know which is the surname unless they use a hyphen (Yi Huang-Siu) and especially confusing for Chinese names with just two characters (Song Fung). If it's the Chinese way, then it's 'Yao Ming' but if written the western way it should be Ming Yao. At least with Korean names, because of the overwhelming commonality of specific surnames (Kim, Park, Choo) it's easy to tell, and for some reason at least from memory Koreans will hyphenate their given names to make it even easier).
And you can almost always tell what kind of Chinese -- if they don't use an English first name, they're almost always from mainland China. The ethnic Chinese in Taiwan, HK, and those who've emigrated to the west have had a long tradition of almost always not only have English first names but use it exclusively in everyday and business life.
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