Avoid Finance Burn- Out

Engineering grad student out of a top target school in NYC- Very interested in multiple areas of finance, but not yet quite sure which one and I know they are all different. Venture Capital/ PE/ IB / HF So I have been spending time on this website combing through the threads and trying to figure out which area I will ultimately fit into given my goals--and one other important area.

Burning out

Investment banking Burnout

Burning out can be caused by several different factors. However two of these claim more willpower than any other. That is a lack of purpose and Repetitive and unchallenging work. Additionally, the people you work with can also make things significantly better or worse.

Lack of purpose or passion are the same. If you do not have a very good reason for working through 70+ hours then you may find it very difficult to dig deep. On the other hand, if you have the purpose (passion) the long hours will seem be easier to overcome.

Repetitive work on the junior levels of any industry is common. However, if you continue to prove yourself competent with small and repetitive tasks, you will eventually be given more responsibility. Dealing with these issues becomes easier when you have your purpose in mind.

from certified user @GoodBread"

Finance is, generally speaking, about being right more often than the next guy. As Soros would say, the money is a very nice extra.

I'd take a harder look at what working in finance really means rather than worry about burning out because you talked to a couple people who weren't cut for it. The people who succeed in finance usually love their jobs.

Recommended Reading

 

It's pretty easy to burnout if you're not that driven by money or don't really like the work.

I think most analysts and associates feel pretty overwhelmed in banking, which contributes to a good experience (assuming you're getting good deal experience), but also puts a lot of stress on you at a young age (if you're an analyst).

Regardless, the best thing you can do for yourself is do an internship of some sort. 10 wks will never be the FT real deal, but will give you a lot of insight into whether this job is for you, which is the most important.

The one thing this job will do is force you to realize what you will sacrifice early on, for potentially a better life later on. Just remember, you can't buy you're youth back, so you better like money a lot, or have a hard-on for mindless work (my personal opinion).

 
Best Response

The people you mentioned burned out because: (a) they're stupid (b) they got into finance even though they had no interest in it, because they're insecure and thought accepting a highly sought position/having a well paid job would somehow lend them some self-esteem and self-worth

Now that they "burned out" they have to exaggerate because they know they are useless and couldn't cut it. He didn't work 7 days a week for 2 years straight. He's a fucking liar. She can't even talk about it, because she probably can't bear to tell you about how much of her co-worker's cum she guzzled. They have to describe a scenario where anyone would have quit/burned out, in order to justify what fucking losers they are.

If you get into it for the wrong reasons, which it sounds like you probably are, then you will burn out and be a fucking loser just like your friends.

Anyone who, prior to even being employed, is worried about burning out, obviously isn't very interested/passionate about the career they are looking to pursue.

 
Marcus_Halberstram:
The people you mentioned burned out because: (a) they're stupid (b) they got into finance even though they had no interest in it, because they're insecure and thought accepting a highly sought position/having a well paid job would somehow lend them some self-esteem and self-worth

Now that they "burned out" they have to exaggerate because they know they are useless and couldn't cut it. He didn't work 7 days a week for 2 years straight. He's a fucking liar. She can't even talk about it, because she probably can't bear to tell you about how much of her co-worker's cum she guzzled. They have to describe a scenario where anyone would have quit/burned out, in order to justify what fucking losers they are.

If you get into it for the wrong reasons, which it sounds like you probably are, then you will burn out and be a fucking loser just like your friends.

Anyone who, prior to even being employed, is worried about burning out, obviously isn't very interested/passionate about the career they are looking to pursue.

You must really, really, really like IBD. It is definitely possible to burn out as an analyst, regardless of your "passion" for IBD. Clearly the two people he spoke to were exaggerating to an extent, but the streches of time where you see nothing but your cube can decimate anyone's will, especially when the money isn't really justifying it anymore.

 
TheKing:
You must really, really, really like IBD. It is definitely possible to burn out as an analyst, regardless of your "passion" for IBD. Clearly the two people he spoke to were exaggerating to an extent, but the streches of time where you see nothing but your cube can decimate anyone's will, especially when the money isn't really justifying it anymore.

I'm not saying it doesn't fucking suck working 18-20 hour days for weeks at a time. I've been working 16-20 hour days regularly nonstop for the last several months, thats why Im rarely on here anymore. This past weekend was the first weekend I had off since labor day. Thats not pleasurable for me, but big picture-wise... I still love what I do, Im learning a shit load every single day... and its just one of the steps along the way.

 

Marcus, you strike me as a gentleman and a scholar, what can I say? Thank you? Clearly this idea caught you to the point where you couldn't help but yell from the depths of the trenches - and indeed in the dirty trenches it appears you are. I couldn't have hoped to strike the right chord of the dirtiest grime than with your response - and I sincerely appreciate your feedback. Even look at your profile picture, you are a misogynistic doodle digger and your comrades love you for it. Would you mind revealing what area of finance you work in ? Are there others that tend to have personalities similar to yours in your area?

The way I look at it, you either give something all you've got, every last drip, because you cant help but taste the saliva 24/7- or you are just a middle of the road fuddy dud. I currently have a part time job to put myself through graduate school and I work with a whole bunch of said fuddy duds - and let me tell you, these people have no real passion in life, let alone being productive members of society. So I yearn for some CHALLENGE. I want to release some potential - which is why I am so attracted to investing. I think the ultimate form of creativity in capitalism is the ability to mobilize talent and potential. I am initially drawn to VC, but I am wondering if that's not the greatest place to start. Also drawn to PE, but know that there are plenty of Ivy MBA's going for these coveted positions - and wondering what my chances are as an Ivy non-mba.

So now, I am looking for the proper internships.

The point of my question really was, I would imagine, that there are still places to work that are generally a "bad" idea. Places that beat the living hell out of your ego and shit all over you to make you never want to come back. Believe me - I have seen this in other industries happen to perfectly great people - and then they switch places - and everything is much better. Being that I have heard from an abnormally high number of people who have experienced this in Wall Street - I wanted to make sure this isn't something I would uncover at face value by making this post - such as - DO NOT WORK AT X company as an Y because it is a dead end and many people have committed suicide by working for this group of lunatics.

 

Maybe it was just me but that post was gayer than a Top Gun montage remixed with Pumping Iron scenes...what are you even talking about you doodle digger? You seem more than competent enough to work in finance (sht, its not brain surgery) so why not give it a “shot”? Hopefully you can bun beat the CHALLENGE and not end up like that c-dumpster that you are friends with.

Your friends are lazy, hopefully you can suck it up, and realize that if you do something for the right reasons, you will get out what you put in.

 

Maybe you didn't enjoy the way in which Marcus responded but he has a point. If you're really serious about finance, burning out should be the last of your worries. If you think investing is "the ultimate form of creativity in capitalism," I would refer you to something called entrepreneurship. That seems like a pretty weak reason to want to work in finance in the first place anyway. Finance is, generally speaking, about being right more often than the next guy. As Soros would say, the money is a very nice extra. I'd take a harder look at what working in finance really means rather than worry about burning out because you talked to a couple people who weren't cut for it. The people who succeed in finance usually love their jobs.

Finally, never say dirty trenches or fuddy dud ever again.

 

I think one of the biggest things that causes people to burn out is a failure to manager their time. One of the keys to being able to get through 2 years in banking is figuring out when you can sneak out and grab dinner with friends and when to crank out and when to push back on work. It took me basically a year to figure it all out, but you can get something of a balance if you manage your associates and VPs pretty well.

Especially in these markets. This isn't 2006, when there were so many deals going on that BBs were turning down big-time projects due to a lack of resources to take it on. Most analysts are on 1-2 live deals at a time and maybe a bake-off pitch or two. With that kind of schedule, you'll have a few late nights a week but most of the time you can get time to unwind and party.

 

I think it is heavily dependent on the type of work you do as well. If you're doing the same exact deals/industries day in and day out vs. stepping outside of your comfort zone doing something new you're going to eventually hate what you do. The #1 cause of burn-out is NOT long hours, its unchallenging work. This is the case across the board... for all careers, all job, all industries.

The first time you do something, you may love it, its something new and you're learning alot. The second time, its pretty good, you get to use everything you've learning before and build on top of it. By the third time around, its pretty much the same old shit, equivalent to bitch work.

While you have to manage your seniors, a good senior/staffer will be cognizant of placing top talent where they won't want to bludgeon themselves to death with a polycom.

I'm not saying every day at work is an episode of Road Rules, but it helps if you get a decent amount of seniors behind you. It also depends what type of banking you're in. In restructuring, you can get very different types of exposure.... vs. say if you're an industry coverage analyst or in DCM.

 
Marcus_Halberstram:
I think it is heavily dependent on the type of work you do as well. If you're doing the same exact deals/industries day in and day out vs. stepping outside of your comfort zone doing something new you're going to eventually hate what you do. The #1 cause of burn-out is NOT long hours, its unchallenging work. This is the case across the board... for all careers, all job, all industries.

The first time you do something, you may love it, its something new and you're learning alot. The second time, its pretty good, you get to use everything you've learning before and build on top of it. By the third time around, its pretty much the same old shit, equivalent to bitch work.

While you have to manage your seniors, a good senior/staffer will be cognizant of placing top talent where they won't want to bludgeon themselves to death with a polycom.

I'm not saying every day at work is an episode of Road Rules, but it helps if you get a decent amount of seniors behind you. It also depends what type of banking you're in. In restructuring, you can get very different types of exposure.... vs. say if you're an industry coverage analyst or in DCM.

What group are you in? Which year? Your favorite part of the job? Plan on staying for a while?
 
Mezz:
What group are you in? Which year? Your favorite part of the job? Plan on staying for a while?
  1. Restructuring.

  2. 1st year associate.

  3. Favorite part would be when you get to see a company/deal that made all the sense in the world with tremendous upside potential which is now distressed... specifically PE deals. I like seeing how various investors go about making an investment at every step of the way from concept to execution. I like seeing how a management team runs the company, what they keep an eye on, how they strategize branding, growth, etc...

In restructuring in general, everyone is suing each other. And through the litigation process you get to see a lot of juicy bits of information you wouldn't otherwise be exposed to unless you literally worked in 5 different capacities for 5 years each. For example, you'll see the lenders in an LBO's internal memos and presentations, you'll see why 18 months ago this bankrupt company looked like a sound borrower. You'll see the investment memorandum amongst BSD in private equity discussing investment options, how they can milk X LBO for the maximum return, what they are skeptical about, etc... You could possibly see the lenders/advisors/sopnsors models and how they considered this company pre-distress.

And all that is pre-distress contextual stuff, you haven't even got to the restructuring itself yet.

  1. I'm a little torn at this point in time. I did a little bit of PE recruiting some months back, but got really really busy so couldn't follow through to plant more seeds and the few that I did didn't pan out. But I love the firm I'm at and the experience I'm getting now is very hard to come by , so I may just stick around in restructuring until the cycle starts turning and hopefully Ill have a full arsenal of skills for PE. Long term, thats where i want to be. Not cuz thats the sought after path, but more because everything I enjoy doing now I enjoy because its related to investing in and running companies, thats the end destination.
 
Marcus_Halberstram:
The #1 cause of burn-out is NOT long hours, its unchallenging work. This is the case across the board... for all careers, all job, all industries.

The first time you do something, you may love it, its something new and you're learning alot. The second time, its pretty good, you get to use everything you've learning before and build on top of it. By the third time around, its pretty much the same old shit, equivalent to bitch work.

Truer things are rarely said.

 

Autem magnam et est similique fugit vitae eaque. Qui et fuga non aliquid. Ea doloremque doloremque et voluptate eos in eos. Magni veniam ea veniam eaque ut est ab officia. Nihil et quibusdam non ullam sunt sed ut. Praesentium ut veritatis qui magni distinctio. Occaecati tenetur explicabo facere ipsam nesciunt.

Qui accusamus et amet inventore ut atque sed nam. Illo quis ipsam et rerum. Distinctio cumque vero inventore est aut fugit.

Ut qui quis explicabo voluptates. Sed dolorem voluptatem perferendis rerum. Repellendus mollitia suscipit ut qui dolor sunt consequatur vel.

Delectus reprehenderit in necessitatibus distinctio nihil rerum. Modi enim modi eius ex. Consequatur odit enim saepe quia non. Consequatur perspiciatis repudiandae ipsum autem eaque.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Private Equity

  • The Riverside Company 99.5%
  • Warburg Pincus 99.0%
  • Blackstone Group 98.4%
  • KKR (Kohlberg Kravis Roberts) 97.9%
  • Bain Capital 97.4%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Private Equity

  • The Riverside Company 99.5%
  • Blackstone Group 98.9%
  • KKR (Kohlberg Kravis Roberts) 98.4%
  • Ardian 97.9%
  • Bain Capital 97.4%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Private Equity

  • The Riverside Company 99.5%
  • Bain Capital 99.0%
  • Blackstone Group 98.4%
  • Warburg Pincus 97.9%
  • Starwood Capital Group 97.4%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Private Equity

  • Principal (9) $653
  • Director/MD (21) $586
  • Vice President (92) $362
  • 3rd+ Year Associate (89) $280
  • 2nd Year Associate (204) $268
  • 1st Year Associate (386) $229
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (28) $157
  • 2nd Year Analyst (83) $134
  • 1st Year Analyst (246) $122
  • Intern/Summer Associate (32) $82
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (313) $59
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”