Banking and Law School
I have a SA offer from a strong BB and I scored very high on my LSAT (I am confident that I would be able to get into a top 5 law school, progbably multiple ones). Is there value in a J.D. from a school like Harvard or Yale? Is it more impressive than a 2 year analyst program at a BB in terms of banking/PE/Hedge Fund etc? Is a J.D. more impressive than an MBA? Would I be stupid to turn down a full time offer from a BB to attend a very top law school, considering that I remain very interested in banking and am somewhat unsure what I want to do in the long term? Any thoughts?
Is there value in a JD from Harvard or Yale? No, zero.
First off, you're getting way ahead of yourself. You only have a SA offer - get the FT offer, get in to law school, and then you can consider the choice. I don't know why you'd get a JD though if you just want to go in to finance anyway - it certainly can be useful, but you can get it faster if you get a JD/MBA. If you're unsure what you want to do FT, obviously a JD is safer, but if you want to go in to finance an IBD analyst gig now will give you more flexibility in two years.
I had a friend in my analyst class that worked for one year then went to harvard law. He took lsat before finishing school and applied about mid way through first year once he said finance was not for him. I remembering asking him why did he even accept job. He said he wanting to try it on and see how it fit. He did not like it and already had a decent shot at top law school so he said harvard will be fine without him for a year or two.
Harvard has a JD/MBA Hybrid Program I've heard, 4 years long and you come out with a Harvard JD and MBA. Very small class, about a dozen people, it's pretty experimental. Look into that if you're interested.
Experimental? How so?
http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/jdmba/jd_faqs.php Among the prominent Harvard JD/MBAs are Christopher Cox, Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Governor Mitt Romney, Peter W. Olson, Chairman and CEO of Random House, Inc., Bruce Wasserstein, Chairman and CEO of Lazard, Charles E. Haldeman, Jr., Chairman and CEO of Putnam Investments, and HLS Professor Howell Jackson and HLS and HBS Professor Guhan Subramanian.
You're right, my mistake, terrible of me to blindly rehash word of mouth. Thanks for the info.
Researching distressed shops in the last few days, I came across a couple of Harvard JD/MBAs that I could add: Lawrence Golub, President of Golub Capital (he was at the top of his class in both law and business...wow). Joshua Friedman and Mitchell Julius, Co-CEOs of Canyon Capital (also top of class in both schools).
I scored very high on my MCAT (I am confident that I would be able to get into a top 5 med school, progbably multiple ones). Is there value in a M.D. from a school like Harvard or Johns Hopkins? Is it more impressive than a 2 year analyst program at a BB in terms of banking/PE/Hedge Fund etc? Is a M.D. more impressive than an MBA? Would I be stupid to turn down a full time offer from a BB to attend a very top med school, considering that I remain very interested in banking and am somewhat unsure what I want to do in the long term? Any thoughts?
Law School v. I-Banking (Originally Posted: 07/29/2012)
Hey guys,
I am currently about to be a sophomore at a semi-target school interested in I-Banking or AM at the moment. For the longest time I have been wanting to go to law school though. The original plan was to graduate (and taking the LSAT prior), work a 2 year IB gig to gain some real world work experience, and then go to Law School to and then eventually become some sort of Tax or M&A Attorney in house or something along those lines. I have talked to many lawyers and some say don't do the law route due to the flooding of the legal market and the fact that its crazy expensive. Others say do the law route with them foreseeing a turn in the legal job market in the next 3-5 years. Now my plan has slightly changed into to new plans. The first being stick with IB and then transition into AM or do a few IB stints and then get a JD/MBA in case law doesn't work out? I have no solid foot here though honestly, what do you guys think though... is law school worth it over IB?
I'm going to ask you a question to try and help you get the hang of what you want to do:
If you really wanted to be a construction worker, would you take a job as a sailor? If yes, then do banking.
Now, if you don't really know what law entails (which, like most people, you probably don't), you should try and get a taste of it ASAP. It's really just reading. And more reading. And a little writing (not actually writing the document, just a sticky note to yourself about what you just read. At least for the first 4 years of your legal career). And more reading. Do not go for a JD unless you're absolutely sure it's what you want. IB is easier to get out of, but you should still be sure that you want to do it.
Don't go to law school. Period.
http://www.leveragedsellout.com/2006/08/biglaw-bigschmaw/
I can't speak for all lawyers, but I can tell you my own experience. I have a law degree and although I don't regret it, it was crazy expensive. I didn't plan on working in banking but it somehow worked out that way. I don't think I've figured out quite yet how to mix them both perfectly together, but I don't mind the idea of working in-house at the bank I'm in now. I don't think I'll ever say I wish I didn't get my law degree, but I will say that I wish I didn't have the loans that came with it (but those go away eventually but you always have your degree).
Anyway, I wish you luck in figuring it out.
As someone said at the WSO Conference yesterday, NEVER GO TO LAW SCHOOL.
bump! I would like to know as well.... for those of you that wen to the WSO conference why not law school?
No one should go to law school.
Law or Banking (Originally Posted: 09/24/2011)
Hey guys,
I am a sophomore right now at Wharton majoring in finance and also minoring in biology. I was premed all throughout high school but started thinking more about business/banking when I got into wharton. Now that I am at Penn, I've found I really do like finance and everything, but I don't know if I am cut out for business. My social skills really aren't that great and my interview's are all really hit or miss. So, despite the fact that I do have a 4.0 right now, I started thinking about possibly going to law school. It's a field I really do enjoy, and all my friends say I am naturally a lawyer-type person. Of banking, medicine, and law, I definitely would choose law if we put salary/career stability behind us. The only big problem is that everyone says that going to law school (even HYS) is a terrible investment. I'm not sure if my wharton degree would give me a big leg up in corp law, but is it fair to say that I'd be making significantly more money if I turned to banking or med instead? I know passion is a big factor in choosing a career, but ignoring that, what job makes the most economic sense given my current position?
I have an interview with a BB next week. Should I take the FT offer or play professional hockey? Also, what is the value of a Rhodes Scholarship?
but seriously... work in a BB for two years at a firm that will pay for your mba/jd. that's like $160k right there. Two years worth of top analyst salary. (after two years worth of top analyst salary) I know there are a couple BB's which will pay for an MBA if you go back for two years
Go to law school if you try and fail to get into banking
perhaps my post was a little too harsh
+1, my thoughts exactly.
Honestly OP you're probably better off in law or medicine, if you're vacillating about whether to go into banking or not the answer is usually no, it's something you generally have to be genuinely interested in and enthusiastic about.
Someone threw monkey shit at me for editing my post?? Seems kind of random.
No matter if you go in to finance or law, social skills are going to come in to play. Especially as you move up the ranks within a bank/company/law firm.
Social skills are irreplaceable. Do your best to work on them. Honestly, just having a little confidence in yourself is the biggest thing.
out of curiosity, what hours do commercial lawyers put in? I think its better than banking, but how much better?
I suppose they work around 10-11 hours per day.Sometimes they have to do some work at home,for example to study the new law etc..
It comes down to personality profile:
If you're a glass half-empty kind of guy (naturally cynical, skeptical, reactive and deductive), then law is a great fit since the nature of the profession really values those traits more than any other. It's about dissecting details, risk mitigation and prevention, and anticipating problems (and writing them into contracts).
If you're a glass half-full kind of guy (naturally optimistic, creative, proactive, and inductive), then business is a better fit, since the heart and soul of business ultimately is SALES: your ability to convince people to work for you, to buy your stuff, to invest in your company, and so forth.
In other words, law is about minimizing misery, while business is about maximizing happiness -- if you want to be so broad.
Part of the reason why there's so many dissatisfied and unhappy lawyers is that many realize they aren't as cynical as they need to be, and being in a job where you're constantly seeing the negatives and dealing with negatives feeds into your temperament (i.e. if you're dealing with misery and negativity, over time it'll likely make you a more miserable and negative person).
While business is generally seen as more risky (more ups and downs), the fact that the heart and soul of what you do is looking to grow something, make something better, make customers/clients happy, etc. also impacts satisfaction since you're in a more "glass half full" environment.
If you don't know what you're passionate about, at least figure out what path is more suited to your natural temperament and sensibility. Of course, careers over time can change your sensibility, but you're still best off trying to go into a career that best fits with who you naturally are as you know it today.
The set of social skills you need for law is the same as for banking. You might get away with being a social retard during your junior years, but that's about it.
that is not a compliment
FWIW, you will likely incur massive amounts of debt to go to law school to make a slightly higher salary as you would in banking after a couple years... varies widely.
You will hate your life equally, initially, though I know more 1st/2nd year associates at white shoe firms sleeping on the floor of their office than the equivalent in banking...
Exit options after law can really vary... you can actually go from law into the deal side if you choose wisely/have good mentoring. Or you can have the easy out of in-house, etc.
I dunno. I think law/finance have similar personality dispositions... it all comes down to what interests you more. And yes, social skills are crucial to success in both.
I'm at a top law school, and while finance options are available to folks here without analyst experience if they're lucky and willing to network, the options are WAY better if you were already an analyst. Definitely do the BB stint, at least for a year. Law school will wait. You can defer. Some alums in banking/investing came back for a panel and noted that JDs in banking tend to either be MDs or get fired...if you play it right and you're the smart investor who happens to know law, you have the world in your hand. If you're the lawyer constantly struggling to keep up with the MBAs, you'll find yourself out of a job.
Your LSAT score is good for 5 years, so take the BB gig. If you decide that finance isn't your thing by the end of the program, then go to law school.. But unless you're looking for a restructuring gig in the long term, I wouldn't recommend going to law school if you plan on getting back into finance
Makes sense. If you do a two year analyst program, and either go to law school after it or leave after a year to go to law school, would you renenter the industry as an associate, vp etc? What is the recruiting process like? Is it similar to undergrad, where there is an element of luck to it, especially in this type of market?
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