Comments (46)

Jan 18, 2015

Why are you dead set on BB over a top MM IBD position? Depending on your ability to network and your current network, I think it would be easier to move from MM IBD to BB IBD rather than trying to lateral different groups.

You would have to seriously network while in the BB to switch over, as they will want someone who's been trained over the summer to start FT and not have to hold your hand if you're coming from ER.

Jan 18, 2015

If you want to do IB FT, go with the MM IB offer. It'll give you the right skill set and prepare you for FT recruiting. Don't focus on the name being something "less" than a BB. Places like Rothschild, HL, Jefferies, will all provide you with a great experience. Each firm has their strengths. HL is #1 for consumer transactions under $1B. Rothschild is known for restructuring.

What you should be more concerned about is getting your pitch down, why IB, being able to articulate your knowledge of the industry, being able to talk about your summer internship - you should be able to sell yourself. This will distinguish you.

Jan 19, 2015

Agree with the above. The skill set from MM IB and BB IB are the same. In most cases, that's more important than simply having a BB name on your resume

Jan 19, 2015

I disagree with the above posters. The 'skill set' you learn as a SA are not extensive at all and they do expect to train you pretty much from the bottom once you start. I believe you can make a much more compelling story as a SA in ER from a BB than from boutique IB, simply because the ER gig is harder to get.

The boutique IB job gives off the impression that you aimed for BB IB but didn't get it. The BB ER job gives the impression that you aimed for BB ER, got it and am now considering BB IB for FT because you were not sold on ER after having tried it. I think that's a better story from a recruiting standpoint.

Of course it depends on which boutique. If it's HL or Rotschild in London then I would probably pick that.

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Jan 19, 2015

Definitely go BB

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Jan 19, 2015

In my experience, boutiques outside of the elite and good middle market ones are not even acknowledged in interviews or, at best, you're given the chance to elaborate. One interviewer at BNP once said something along the lines of 'I dont know that shop, so I dont trust the skills you might have acquired there'. Therefore, I would go with the brand name. Furthermore, ER is pretty interesting and you can always spin a story out of it to move to IBD like 'I like the fundamental analysis part a lot. However, I would like to not only assess strategic moves after the announcement or suggest possibilities for the company, but be involved in helping the company make that strategic move when it comes to M&A.'

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Jan 19, 2015
lewhukie:

In my experience, boutiques outside of the elite and good middle market ones are not even acknowledged in interviews or, at best, you're given the chance to elaborate. One interviewer at BNP once said something along the lines of 'I dont know that shop, so I dont trust the skills you might have acquired there'. Therefore, I would go with the brand name. Furthermore, ER is pretty interesting and you can always spin a story out of it to move to IBD like 'I like the fundamental analysis part a lot. However, I would like to not only assess strategic moves after the announcement or suggest possibilities for the company, but be involved in helping the company make that strategic move when it comes to M&A.'

I don't understand this logic. If you want to do investment banking, do investment banking. If you want to do ER, do ER.

Jan 20, 2015

I did an internship at a rather unknown M&A boutique. That internship wasn't even acknowledged in interviews at bigger places. The main argument basically was 'Don't know them, so how can I trust them'. Hence, I conclude that going with the BB due to the brand will give you more validity when it comes to interviews at bigger places. Having said that, as mentioned before, obviously this does not hold for EB. What's so hard to understand about this?

Jan 20, 2015

deleted

Jan 19, 2015

IB is IB. take it if you want to IB.

Jan 20, 2015

equity research associate = ib analyst

research positions start u off as associate, and the "analysts" are the ones you work for and release reports

"so i herd u liek mudkipz" - sum kid
"I'd watergun the **** outta that." - Kassad

Jan 20, 2015
deskjockey247:

Hi all, I'm a recent MBA grad who just finished a one year internship in equity research. I'm actually really interested now in pursuing investment banking in technology & media.

My question is, if I had a chance to do equity research as an associate at a BB firm in SF or work as an IB analyst at boutique firm in LA, which should I choose if I eventually want to get into IB at a BB or MM firm?

Just FYI, my background is in engineering, I have 4 yrs of work experience, just finished MBA program at a school that's not a feeder, and have one year of equity research as an intern under my belt. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

what kind of boutique are we talking about? no-name boutique? evercore?

would definitely start at BB equity research if its no-name boutique. after a year or so, you can always try and move internally to an IB position
much more difficult if not impossible to move from no-name boutique to BB or even MM shops at the post MBA level

Jan 20, 2015

mudkipz, yes currently i'm looking at entry level positions (Associate in ER and analyst in IB) since I don't have much finance experience pre-MBA.

Whiskey5, thanks for the info, appreciate it. I've been looking at boutiques such as Janes Capital Partners, D.A. Davidson, Headwaters, Imperial Capital, and JMP Securities. My goal is to eventually join an IB team with a firm at an RBC Capital level, maybe not necessarily a BB.

Jan 20, 2015

depends what kind of boutique IB it is.

Jan 20, 2015
deskjockey247:

mudkipz, yes currently i'm looking at entry level positions (Associate in ER and analyst in IB) since I don't have much finance experience pre-MBA.

Whiskey5, thanks for the info, appreciate it. I've been looking at boutiques such as Janes Capital Partners, D.A. Davidson, Headwaters, Imperial Capital, and JMP Securities. My goal is to eventually join an IB team with a firm at an RBC Capital level, maybe not necessarily a BB.

Definitely go ER at BB then. Those shops aren't going to allow you to move up to IB at a BB or even a top boutique or MM shop.

If you are post-MBA with a year of ER under your belt (even as an intern), I'd guess you aren't starting at the lowest associate level, right?

Jan 20, 2015

JMP is pretty solid mostly in healthcare. Are you sure you'd be starting as an analyst at these IB positions? The vast, vast majority of post-MBA IB associates have no prior IB analyst experience fyi and plenty have no prior finance experience at all. I don't see why you'd be starting as an analyst so please reply letting me know if you've done your due diligence and have been specifically told by all these firms you'd be only qualified to interview as an analyst or are just speculating.

I'd also look into Financial Technology Partners if you're dead set on west coast boutiques - very strong San Francisco based Fin-Tech boutique. I also see no reason why with a BB ER SA position under your belt you wouldn't be competitive as an associate at MM shops if not lower tier BBs. Is your B school really that bad? It can't be if you landed a BB ER SA...

Jan 20, 2015
Raptor.45:

JMP is pretty solid mostly in healthcare. Are you sure you'd be starting as an analyst at these IB positions? The vast, vast majority of post-MBA IB associates have no prior IB analyst experience fyi and plenty have no prior finance experience at all. I don't see why you'd be starting as an analyst so please reply letting me know if you've done your due diligence and have been specifically told by all these firms you'd be only qualified to interview as an analyst or are just speculating.

I'd also look into Financial Technology Partners if you're dead set on west coast boutiques - very strong San Francisco based Fin-Tech boutique. I also see no reason why with a BB ER SA position under your belt you wouldn't be competitive as an associate at MM shops if not lower tier BBs. Is your B school really that bad? It can't be if you landed a BB ER SA...

This is really bad advice if he wants to do investment banking at firms like RBC.
I'm also not sure why you are guiding him towards fin tech. It's a very speciality niche industry.

I have nothing against boutiques but the fact is, especially post MBA level, you will be pigeonholed into boutiques. Moving from BB or MM to boutiques is done without difficulty, but the opposite will be impossible.

Again, if goal is to go RBC or the like, BB Equity research is the best way to obtain your goal.

Jan 20, 2015

ibd ultimately? then...duh, boutique ibd.

Jan 20, 2015

... not sure if I agree.... just a friend of mine went from BB (Non-Goldman) Credit research to Goldman TMT, literally went from our offer party to interviews with them

Jan 20, 2015
PuppyBackedSecurities:

literally went from our offer party to interviews with them

You had an offer party?

Jan 20, 2015

depends on the boutique
if it's a top boutique go there, otherwise the BB ER brand and networking opportunities win

Jan 20, 2015

It depends on the boutique firm. If it is some no-name boutique, then I will go with the BB equity research. Brand name IS important on your resume. I think the skill sets that you are going to get from the equity research internship are going to be useful for IBD.

Jan 20, 2015

Oh, excuuuuse me. Christ, chip on your shoulder much?

Jan 20, 2015

one of my concerns is whether the boutique firm will actually involve me in modeling work =//

Jan 20, 2015

I had experience dealing with Singapore banks (CIMB, OSK etc etc). I would strongly recommend you try and do something outside of Singapore unless you plan to stay there for FT work. Capital market in Singapore is shit and filled with really conservative funds.

Would taking 6 months off postpone your graduation ? When were you planning to graduate originally ?

I am in favor of option 1 but you should check whether it would affect your FT application later (timing-wise)

Jan 20, 2015
Roamer:

I had experience dealing with Singapore banks (CIMB, OSK etc etc).

Those are both Malaysian banks << >>

OP: Which year are you in? What's the plan?

Jan 20, 2015

@Roamer: well... it wouldnt becus I can overload my academic cirriculum and make up for it. i plan to work in HK next time but my worried is will IB firms value ER as much as the work that I can do in a Boutique IB?

Jan 20, 2015

I'm currently a freshman and I have a summer internship as an Equities Sale Intern lined up in NY

Ideal plan is to enter BB IB. Imm asking these questions becus I wna start networking/planning for my next step

Jan 20, 2015

Studying at a "target" in Singapore, and you're going to NY to SA in Equity Sales... in your freshman year?

Jan 20, 2015

yeah. its an international internship programme with an Asian bank. not a structured SA internship.

Jan 20, 2015

I did an internship in SH and will say its tough to network there without hot leads. With leads, networking in SH is a piece of cake though.

Jan 20, 2015

eventually I hope to pursue a SA in Hong Kong or Singapore. I'm more cocerned about how potential IB hirers would value my internship experience. ER in SH and HK vs Boutique IB/PE in Singapore

Best Response
Jan 20, 2015

If you got the Deutsche offer, take anything but that and run

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Jan 20, 2015

Bump, any other suggestions?

Jan 20, 2015

Don't have too much great insight or advice to offer, but did you summer with one of the BBs you mentioned? If you know the firm well and know how internal mobility works, you could try out the ER position and try going through their internal process to move to IBD a couple years in. I know some firms are very big on this but don't know anything about UBS/DB.

Jan 20, 2015

Personally it is hard for us to tell you exactly what to do. There is no guarantee that you will be able to pull off this lateral given the current state of the industry(most BB's overstaffed)...however a post MBA move should be shooting fish in a barrel.

My advice would be to simply judge each opportunity based on which one you feel you would enjoy more and what you think you would be good at.

If judging by "prestige" you are kind of in that nebulous gray area where whether being an "investment banker" or whether being in another FO role at a BB will impress people more is a tossup. So don't judge that way. Neither opportunity is bad and either could lead to 7 figures if you are capable, strategically minded, and lucky enough.

Jan 20, 2015

What do you want to do post IBD? if you're looking @ HF, I would just do DB. They are better than most BBs when it comes to ER.

Jan 20, 2015
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