Boutique IB vs. BB ER

lewhukie:

In my experience, boutiques outside of the elite and good middle market ones are not even acknowledged in interviews or, at best, you're given the chance to elaborate. One interviewer at BNP once said something along the lines of 'I dont know that shop, so I dont trust the skills you might have acquired there'. Therefore, I would go with the brand name. Furthermore, ER is pretty interesting and you can always spin a story out of it to move to IBD like 'I like the fundamental analysis part a lot. However, I would like to not only assess strategic moves after the announcement or suggest possibilities for the company, but be involved in helping the company make that strategic move when it comes to M&A.'

I don't understand this logic. If you want to do investment banking, do investment banking. If you want to do ER, do ER.

equity research associate = ib analyst

research positions start u off as associate, and the "analysts" are the ones you work for and release reports

deskjockey247:

Hi all, I'm a recent MBA grad who just finished a one year internship in equity research. I'm actually really interested now in pursuing investment banking in technology & media.

My question is, if I had a chance to do equity research as an associate at a BB firm in SF or work as an IB analyst at boutique firm in LA, which should I choose if I eventually want to get into IB at a BB or MM firm?

Just FYI, my background is in engineering, I have 4 yrs of work experience, just finished MBA program at a school that's not a feeder, and have one year of equity research as an intern under my belt. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

what kind of boutique are we talking about? no-name boutique? evercore?

would definitely start at BB equity research if its no-name boutique. after a year or so, you can always try and move internally to an IB position
much more difficult if not impossible to move from no-name boutique to BB or even MM shops at the post MBA level

depends what kind of boutique IB it is.

deskjockey247:

mudkipz, yes currently i'm looking at entry level positions (Associate in ER and analyst in IB) since I don't have much finance experience pre-MBA.

Whiskey5, thanks for the info, appreciate it. I've been looking at boutiques such as Janes Capital Partners, D.A. Davidson, Headwaters, Imperial Capital, and JMP Securities. My goal is to eventually join an IB team with a firm at an RBC Capital level, maybe not necessarily a BB.

Definitely go ER at BB then. Those shops aren't going to allow you to move up to IB at a BB or even a top boutique or MM shop.

If you are post-MBA with a year of ER under your belt (even as an intern), I'd guess you aren't starting at the lowest associate level, right?

JMP is pretty solid mostly in healthcare. Are you sure you'd be starting as an analyst at these IB positions? The vast, vast majority of post-MBA IB associates have no prior IB analyst experience fyi and plenty have no prior finance experience at all. I don't see why you'd be starting as an analyst so please reply letting me know if you've done your due diligence and have been specifically told by all these firms you'd be only qualified to interview as an analyst or are just speculating.

I'd also look into Financial Technology Partners if you're dead set on west coast boutiques - very strong San Francisco based Fin-Tech boutique. I also see no reason why with a BB ER SA position under your belt you wouldn't be competitive as an associate at MM shops if not lower tier BBs. Is your B school really that bad? It can't be if you landed a BB ER SA...

Raptor.45:

JMP is pretty solid mostly in healthcare. Are you sure you'd be starting as an analyst at these IB positions? The vast, vast majority of post-MBA IB associates have no prior IB analyst experience fyi and plenty have no prior finance experience at all. I don't see why you'd be starting as an analyst so please reply letting me know if you've done your due diligence and have been specifically told by all these firms you'd be only qualified to interview as an analyst or are just speculating.

I'd also look into Financial Technology Partners if you're dead set on west coast boutiques - very strong San Francisco based Fin-Tech boutique. I also see no reason why with a BB ER SA position under your belt you wouldn't be competitive as an associate at MM shops if not lower tier BBs. Is your B school really that bad? It can't be if you landed a BB ER SA...

This is really bad advice if he wants to do investment banking at firms like RBC.
I'm also not sure why you are guiding him towards fin tech. It's a very speciality niche industry.

I have nothing against boutiques but the fact is, especially post MBA level, you will be pigeonholed into boutiques. Moving from BB or MM to boutiques is done without difficulty, but the opposite will be impossible.

Again, if goal is to go RBC or the like, BB Equity research is the best way to obtain your goal.

ibd ultimately? then...duh, boutique ibd.

... not sure if I agree.... just a friend of mine went from BB (Non-Goldman) Credit research to Goldman TMT, literally went from our offer party to interviews with them

depends on the boutique
if it's a top boutique go there, otherwise the BB ER brand and networking opportunities win

It depends on the boutique firm. If it is some no-name boutique, then I will go with the BB equity research. Brand name IS important on your resume. I think the skill sets that you are going to get from the equity research internship are going to be useful for IBD.

Oh, excuuuuse me. Christ, chip on your shoulder much?

one of my concerns is whether the boutique firm will actually involve me in modeling work =//

I had experience dealing with Singapore banks (CIMB, OSK etc etc). I would strongly recommend you try and do something outside of Singapore unless you plan to stay there for FT work. Capital market in Singapore is shit and filled with really conservative funds.

Would taking 6 months off postpone your graduation ? When were you planning to graduate originally ?

I am in favor of option 1 but you should check whether it would affect your FT application later (timing-wise)

@Roamer: well... it wouldnt becus I can overload my academic cirriculum and make up for it. i plan to work in HK next time but my worried is will IB firms value ER as much as the work that I can do in a Boutique IB?

I'm currently a freshman and I have a summer internship as an Equities Sale Intern lined up in NY

Ideal plan is to enter BB IB. Imm asking these questions becus I wna start networking/planning for my next step

Studying at a "target" in Singapore, and you're going to NY to SA in Equity Sales... in your freshman year?

yeah. its an international internship programme with an Asian bank. not a structured SA internship.

I did an internship in SH and will say its tough to network there without hot leads. With leads, networking in SH is a piece of cake though.

eventually I hope to pursue a SA in Hong Kong or Singapore. I'm more cocerned about how potential IB hirers would value my internship experience. ER in SH and HK vs Boutique IB/PE in Singapore

Bump, any other suggestions?

Don't have too much great insight or advice to offer, but did you summer with one of the BBs you mentioned? If you know the firm well and know how internal mobility works, you could try out the ER position and try going through their internal process to move to IBD a couple years in. I know some firms are very big on this but don't know anything about UBS/DB.

Personally it is hard for us to tell you exactly what to do. There is no guarantee that you will be able to pull off this lateral given the current state of the industry(most BB's overstaffed)...however a post MBA move should be shooting fish in a barrel.

My advice would be to simply judge each opportunity based on which one you feel you would enjoy more and what you think you would be good at.

If judging by "prestige" you are kind of in that nebulous gray area where whether being an "investment banker" or whether being in another FO role at a BB will impress people more is a tossup. So don't judge that way. Neither opportunity is bad and either could lead to 7 figures if you are capable, strategically minded, and lucky enough.

What do you want to do post IBD? if you're looking @ HF, I would just do DB. They are better than most BBs when it comes to ER.