Bulge Bracket Gossip - Am I at risk?
Hi guys - I am an incoming IB summer analyst for a mid-tier BB in LA and attend a semi-target. I got my offer pretty early in the recruiting cycle for 2018 and therefore did not explore the option of many other banks.
The past month I have been reaching out to guys that work at some EBs or other BBs to ask for advice on preparing for the summer as well as learning about their experience at their respective bank. I'm doing this with the additional goal in mind to build relationships with them for a possible FT lateral position to a better bank.
Do you think the guys at my firm will hear about this? (I feel like coverage groups on the west coast are more tight-knit than the groups in NY)
If they do hear about me reaching out to other banks, will that impact my chances of getting a return offer?
If there is risk in doing this, I will obviously not reach out to anybody else. Let me know what you all think. Thanks.
[EDITED]
LA is a small world, so I would recommend not chasing a brand name if you're at a satellite office, recruiting will be based on your relationships and if you lateral to somewhere else, it would be because someone else didn't get or choose the slot (why?), and you won't have had the benefit of getting to know your colleagues over the summer, which leaves you with less momentum going into recruiting season (the first 1-2 months on the job).
Agree with this 100%. The marginal benefit is not worth the potential risks. I'm going to be in San Francisco which seems like everyone knows everyone... and would bet LA is similar.
Thanks for the response Syzygy. Just to clarify, when you mention recruiting, are you referring to buyside recruiting in the first 1-2 months of being full-time?
If so, I didn't look at things in with that perspective and will stop reaching out to people at other firms.
Yes. Let's say buyside recruiting happens within the first 10 weeks of full time, and your summer internship is 10 weeks. Switching firms means 50% less exposure than the other analysts who did summer in the group, and probably more than that given so much cultural and team bonding happens over the summer. A buyside recruiter calls me for example and asks me to compare the different Analysts ... fill in the gaps.
If you find yourself over the summer at a cultural mismatch or can go from a true boutique (1 MD shop) to a BB then it might be worth it, but if you are thinking e.g. Credit Suisse LA to MS LA is a step up or worth lateraling, you are so very, very, very, very wrong.
From this description alone if you are being truthful, I already know who you are. LA is a small world.
Lol, there are so god damn many summer analysts in LA and his post was so vague that you can't possibly have seriously let yourself believe/proclaim that you know who this anonymous poster is. No, you have no fuckin clue who it is.
Other than that, your follow on comments are actually very informative and helpful.
SB'd
Bulge brackets are generally considered...
Bank of America Merrill Lynch (BAML) Barclays Capital (BarCap) Citigroup (Citi) Credit Suisse (CS) Deutsche Bank (DB) Goldman Sachs (GS or Goldman) JPMorgan Chase (JPM) Morgan Stanley (MS) UBS
So, what's a "mid-tier BB?" Throw out GS, MS, JPM. Throw out DB and UBS. Now we have BAML, Barcap, Citi, and CS. There are ~a dozen incoming Summer Analysts in total. Target schools USC, UCLA, Wharton, Ivey represent the vast majority of the class... I'll stop here.
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What about lateraling to a better bank if you are already a full-time analyst in a place like SF or LA?
You would already have a PE job a few months in so not much point IMO, and would be hard to recruit elsewhere at another bank if you do have an offer lined up. If you wanted to stay A-A then of course it may make sense if you fit in much better somewhere else.
He’s trolling you, you’re ok to reach out and get to know people. Don’t come off as super eager to jump groups though.
And lateralling groups/firms for full time will have a negligible effect on recruiting when you start. I’ve known plenty of people who have done this and been at zero disadvantage.
Yes, it's of course fine to reach out to people, and you should always be networking in my opinion. It's not the fact that people would talk and black-list you, it's the fact that lateraling amongst BB in LA will basically not be additive to recruiting success and therefore brand name is not a sufficient condition to take that risk. Culture would be a great reason, but again, CS to MS or BAML to GS ... at least in LA ... the cultural factor outweighs the brand name by far, not to mention the groups are very different.
"I've known plenty of people who have done this and been at zero disadvantage"
So if I understand this correctly- you're saying that, for example, someone who goes from BAML SA to GS FT wouldn't be at a disadvantage in PE recruiting compared to someone who went GS SA to GS FT?
Correct
To be honest, I do not think an incoming Summer Analyst is so important that you'd talk about him with people from other banks... (especially when considering the fact you are not the only SA starting in LA 2018)
I think it's probably unlikely that any mid-level or sr. bankers would be chatting informally about cold emails from SA's, but you never know. IF it does get around to your team you're already shopping your offer from them to other banks, at the very least you're one foot in the grave in terms of getting no FT offer.
Good news for you, is that this is a well trodden path, but most guys wait till close to the end of the summer. In NYC they sometimes have 1 day superdays to poach good interns from other banks, so maybe cool it till you're past the halfway point in your internship.
For what it's worth, I think if the people at the other banks think you're a solid candidate, they probably won't narc you out. They'll try to recruit you. I've actively tried to recruit candidates who are summering with my buddies at other banks. All part of the game.
A benign networking email won’t really be discussed, but your risk is if you come off as obnoxious or forward then someone might ask someone at your bank, wtf is your intern doing?
So the last phone call I had with a guy at an EB, we naturally discussed the similarities and differences of a BB and EB as well as things like covering things outside of media, etc.
However, as the conversation progressed, he started talking about how I should keep networking and explore other banks (even though I opened up the phone call talking about how I was very happy to be at the BB that I'll be at).
I'm starting to feel like its too hard to not cross the line and let the conversation evolve into talking about exploring other options. Do you think that this is a problem for me? I'm probably not going to reach out to anyone else, but if I decide to, how would you recommend going about it so that I don't come across like I'm openly shopping my offer around?
Thanks TB
I am on the trading side and been in the market since 2006. I will tell you this - the industry is tiny. You will not believe how small at times.
You will have a long career - dont fuck it up at 20 years old chasing a "brand" - you are the brand.. work hard and learn all you can. Make friends, take a little risk and be a good person - rest will take care of itself.
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