Can't apply for jobs without a degree? Injustice

MR2713's picture
Rank: Chimp | banana points 10

Degree sections compulsory on job applications? How is this fair? This is unfair to individuals who haven't been able to obtain degrees for personal reasons. How are we different or under qualified to those who might have obtained 3rd's in their degrees? Had to leave an application for not having a degree despite 10 years experience within my field? Where is the logic and justice in this? I think all applicants should be given a fair chance.

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Comments (36)

Jan 4, 2017

I don't necessarily disagree but times have changed you can no longer enter the finance field without a degree and more or less is a requirement. Are people who graduated college smarter? Most likely no, there's a lot of extremely dumb people but the only way for businesses to remove a whole segment of applicants is requiring a college degree. If you have been working for 10 years you would assume you have contacts who may be able to help you get a job other than applying online, otherwise an online app will surely reject you.

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Jan 4, 2017

I'd say 70-80% of people w/o a degree aren't that smart. The fact is nowadays you are shooting yourself in the foot if you don't get one.

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Jan 5, 2017

I'd say 90% of people in general are kind of dim.

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Jan 5, 2017

I would say 100% of people who didnt get a degree and wanted to go into finance aren't that smart, how could they not have forseen the requirement of a degree. Also, getting a degree is not hard.

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Jan 4, 2017

There fact the finance sector requires degrees for most jobs still doesn't make it right or fair.

I'm a contractor and now looking for a perm job, the reasons I'm applying directly. Even through contacts can't change the fact that degree will be requested to present at time of application.

I've clearly proven despite not going to university people can be successful. Most entrepreneurs don't have degrees today, clearly is another evidence that a degree is no necessary. Not all company that this degree rule but some that do need to re-evaluate their recruitment processes.

This is why people are lying and getting into the finance sector.

Array

Jan 4, 2017

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it absolutely is "fair".

On a job application they are trying to gauge your qualifications from your background. A college education, or lack thereof, is clearly a part of your background. I'm sure that there is also a work experience section on the application which will be taken into consideration as well. Of course there will be some employers who will not consider you due to your lack of education, but if your overall profile is good enough you should get some bites.

In my opinion you saying that not having a degree being held against you is tantamount to me saying that I should be able to be the Chairman of Goldman Sachs because I have the requisite degrees (but lack the work experience).

I wish you well and given your unique circumstances your best bet is probably a lot of networking. You'll need to get people to see you, the good employee, past the lack of a college degree. However, there are a LOT of people that do have the degree, which is a desired qualification whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

I have a buddy in the exact same situation and I'm trying to get him to pursue a degree. Is night school or even online an option for you?

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy

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Jan 4, 2017

Thanks for your response. I couldn't get a degree due to personal circumstances. My argument here is companies making the degree section compulsory, which then makes it impossible for me to even apply for the role. All companies I have worked for including banks have required degrees for the role, however with my skills and expertise, I have been given leeway. I feel its unfair for those companies who make the education/degree section compulsory, as due to this I will never be given the chance to even apply for the role, let alone to be considered.

I would love to be able to do a part-time or evening degree but again this not easy with a one year old baby and specially financially. I'm now torn between being a parent and pursuing my dream job.

I hope you can understand and appreciate my stance. This is not a negative argument for people at attack on my opinion.

And good luck to you all with degrees.

Array

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Jan 5, 2017

Then get a degree online, you are just bitching about something that you can fix rather than something you are completely unable to do anything about. So instead of complaining to a bunch of people about something that no one is able to do anything about be fucking proactive and do something about it.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Jan 5, 2017
MR2713:

Thanks for your response. I couldn't get a degree due to personal circumstances. My argument here is companies making the degree section compulsory, which then makes it impossible for me to even apply for the role. All companies I have worked for including banks have required degrees for the role, however with my skills and expertise, I have been given leeway. I feel its unfair for those companies who make the education/degree section compulsory, as due to this I will never be given the chance to even apply for the role, let alone to be considered.

I would love to be able to do a part-time or evening degree but again this not easy with a one year old baby and specially financially. I'm now torn between being a parent and pursuing my dream job.

I hope you can understand and appreciate my stance. This is not a negative argument for people at attack on my opinion.

And good luck to you all with degrees.

Can you just fill in NA or something like that? I'm about as straightedge as this forum gets-- and I got my job through applications rather than networking, and I get the feeling you're trying just a bit too hard to color within the lines.

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Jan 5, 2017

Getting a degree is like being a chef. You don't eat what you've been trained to cook and you can't eat unless you cook! You need to cook at a good restaurant first before you branch out and start your own.

Can you cook and not go to culinary school? Sure, but the market is flooded with chefs who have gone and have the paper from top institutions.

You are trying to court recruiters who put you into good restaurants. They want to be lazy and sort descending based on prestigious institutions, years worked, etc to save them time. You do no one any favors by being the mysterious unproven unknown.

There's always hell's kitchen or SharkTank! The same game is played in the MBA circles.

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Jan 4, 2017

Do you know what board you're posting on? If you're a contractor trying to get into finance, a very base part of that process is getting a degree.

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Jan 4, 2017

Yes but getting a degree is not like buying an ice cream. Your talking about a substantial amount of money required and time. And I certainly know what board I'm posting on and it's great to see how some of you are reacting to this. I'm not a dumb individual who couldn't be bothered to go to University but because of personal reasons I was unable to and unfortunately still have not been able to pursue getting a degree. If your willing to sponsor me today, then please do and I will happy give time to getting a degree. I am now a parent of a one year and again can not just get up and go to university.

Array

Jan 4, 2017
MR2713:

Yes but getting a degree is not like buying an ice cream. Your talking about a substantial amount of money required and time. And I certainly know what board I'm posting on and it's great to see how some of you are reacting to this. I'm not a dumb individual who couldn't be bothered to go to University but because of personal reasons I was unable to and unfortunately still have not been able to pursue getting a degree. If your willing to sponsor me today, then please do and I will happy give time to getting a degree. I am now a parent of a one year and again can not just get up and go to university.

  1. I did not say that it is like buying ice cream. College is most definitely expensive (and in my opinion, way too expensive) but if that is the requirement, then you have to complete it.
  2. Everyone has life struggles. Everyone has hardships. Everyone suffers from depression and anxiety, or has a close family member die, or has a kid unexpectedly, or gets a serious illness, etc. Most of these people still manage to complete a degree.
  3. You being a parent means you may not be able to attend college full time, but it doesn't even necessarily mean that. I worked 30 hours a week during college and went full time. I think my brother worked something like 40-50. Part time college exists. Online college exists. Money-wise, loans exist too. There are many, many options here that you simply have to commit to.
  4. If you cannot commit to completing a degree, for whatever self-imposed reason, then you simply can't work in finance. It is a requirement of the career path.
  5. You're*
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Jan 4, 2017

It's INJUSTICE!!!! I think this guy should just be an insurance salesman or retail banking because that's the closest he's going to get with his SJW attitude.

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Jan 5, 2017

Banks discriminate all the time. As long as they're not doing it on the basis of race, gender, or other stuff you can't change, it's legal. It may not be fair. To be sure, it's not fair to the owner of a Coldstone Creamery that I prefer Haagen Daaz.

Btw, you don't have to have just any degree. It has to be from a target school. Take it from a guy who went to a non-target and also dealt with this BS-- this is something you can overcome. It just takes hard work and time.

Finally, I'd just point out that while being a parent is wonderful, the banks and the schools aren't responsible for your decision to be a parent. It's your kid, not their's.

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Jan 5, 2017

Holy shit, your cheap ass rusty honda driving self likes an ice cream that as far as the grocery store goes isn't the cheap option. This is a serious breakthrough.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Jan 5, 2017
heister:

Holy shit, your cheap ass rusty honda driving self likes an ice cream that as far as the grocery store goes isn't the cheap option. This is a serious breakthrough.

To be sure, my favorite is technically Roundy's Pumpkin Pie. But I'll take Haagen Daaz or Oberweis (the expensive Midwestern brand) over Coldstone.

Best Response
Jan 6, 2017

I've started another thread regarding Military Service specifically so as to not detract from this discussion. Head on over and check it out!

The Military (FREE and Serve Your Country) Option:

Uncle SamUS MilitaryService Academy or Scholarship Route
Get a free degree from US Federal Service Academies (Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard, Merchant Marines) OR the ROTC route (possibly NUPOC or BDCP [Navy programs, go see www.Airwarriors.com ]).

  • Do your time and bank six figures for five (5) years guaranteed
  • Do three more to get 100% of your Post-911 GI Bill. Puts you at Eight (8) total post college
  • Get out earlier with a smaller portion of GI Bill and use Yellow Ribbon for M7 MBA

Officer Candidate School Route

  • Get degree from a very cheap University next to free (State school scholarship loopholes or scholarships)
  • Join any branch as an Officer
  • Take the GMAT before getting out, it is free (one time)
  • Get out after minimum four (4) year commitment with 100% Post-911 GI Bill
  • Get into M7 and use GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon for minimum debt load

Compensation

Active Duty DoD: Total Comp for Junior Officers (O-3 with four years or less) is $90-110K stationed in CONUS and $110-130K stationed Overseas (+$10-30K more at least if you are deployed in a War Zone. Whole paycheck is Tax-free and you get additional things like Hazard Duty Pay, Jump Pay, etc). This includes a TON of tax-free benefits and free perks such as:

  • Food Allowance (BAS)
  • Housing Allowance (BAH or OHA)
  • Oversea Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA)
  • Free Dental
  • Free Medical
  • Free Prescriptions and anything else Health related
  • Access to the Commissary (Grocery store) and the Exchange (Wal-mart) which are all Tax-Free
  • A bunch of other subsidized entertainment, education, and resources
  • Secret or Top Secret Security Clearance (worth a lot to employers if they are looking for those with this gem)

All those are taken into consideration when calculating the approximate total compensation. I was clearing about $3400 net every other paycheck living in Japan as a junior O-2. Not a bad life! Every year for the past decades the Military has gotten across the board pay increases of 1-3% (inflation adjustment) in addition to the regular rank and time-in-service pay bumps.

Reserves: You can choose to join the reserves to keep some of the aforementioned Active Duty perks with weekend drills during your MBA program and get paid for drilling. Continuity can lead to a pension program that you can draw on starting at age 60.

Merchant Marines: Starting Salary for US Merchant Marines (Captain Phillips and Crew) is around $12-14k/month as an Engineer or Mate. More on this later if anyone is interested in this career (badass experience and all the perks of the US Navy with none of the bullshit. Personally shook hands with a 32 year old Captain [think Managing Director] of a mega military container ship. Works only half the year [2-3month on, 2-3month off, rinse and repeat] and takes off the rest clearing $250-300K a year. Never seen a happier sailor in my life.). Harbor Pilots, the folks who taxi cargo ships from the Ocean into the Harbor, consider minimum wage to be $250K a year and they average around $450-500K with the more senior Pilots clearing well above $600K at the busier Ports. Drive ships or manage Analysts/Associates/VPs? Desk job vs Adrenaline Job. Up to you. :) Merchants are also eligible for the Reserves in addition to having their own pension from their respective Unions.

Post-Service MBA rebrand Option

M7 MBA is Veteran friendly typically having an existing Veterans Network. Chat up current students and Vet Network for assistance and apply with a GMAT 700+. They value the leadership and perspective from a military Veteran in that classroom setting when everyone else has been doing battle with Excel, Ballpoint Bic Pens, and Clickers for "Next Slide" during PowerPoint presentations. Tales of leadership under duress is a case study in and of itself.

Bottomline: Join the Military, See the World. You'll come out the other side as a Leader with a degree, experience, and money in the bank. This enables you to apply to M7 MBA program and be a favored candidate to get another prestigious degree for nearly FREE. Afterwards, you can go hear others whine about the fact that you now have Veterans preferences, an M7 MBA, and a host of other excuses that makes you more employable vs the Average Joe.

Lastly, we have the Public Health Services; not as sexy but also uniform option: https://www.usphs.gov/
Footnote: Pricetag on freedom can be steep. You are risking your life for a greater good and getting a degree as a secondary effect. By being in this elite club, you have exclusive access to one of the finest networks in America as a Veteran.

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Jan 5, 2017

SB. Had I known this information in high school or college I would have definitely taken this route.

Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes.
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Jan 5, 2017

@MR2713 Don't use your kid as an excuse. My mom finished her degree and a masters with four kids.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

Jan 4, 2017

I get where you are coming from, but they need some way to screen candidates.. for what it's worth, EY removed the degree requirements from their application process

edit: after reading article PWC did the same

https://www.simplilearn.com/ernst-and-young-remove...

Jan 4, 2017

How can someone become a CPA at EY without a BA or BS? Maybe they're just doing that for the janitors.

Jan 4, 2017

I would suspect this is geared toward tech oriented roles - EY offers a range of services outside of accounting.

edit: maybe BO roles too

Jan 4, 2017

That makes more sense.

Jan 5, 2017

It's easier to remove the requirement for all of the jobs than have multiple logic paths on their web interface. Doesn't mean that degrees are not required for all positions. Just means you don't have to enter that information to fill out the app.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Jan 4, 2017

Why no enroll for community college?

It's cheaper and you can take classes part time. If the opportunity arises in the future you can always go for the bachelor's after an associates.

Jan 5, 2017

I agree. Community colleges often even have online classes.

Best bet is to target a community college known for feeding kids into a decent local university or three. This might be expensive, but you can always get a job and go part time. After your BS+internships+networking you can be in IB. Longer you wait, the tougher it will be (age discrimination). So start now for fun.

But some people do rarely break in w/o a degree. It may be this is rarer now due to dumbing down of high schools combined with an explosion in degree holders. It used to be rarer that people had degrees.

Jan 5, 2017

Just fyi companies are not charity, they can do whatever they want. If I choose to hire a girl who is 9 and above, thats purely my decision and I couldnt care less if anybody thinks its fair or not.
Sorry, man, but your post has written major entitlement all over it and that will not get you anywhere. Suck it up and grind. And if think you got what it takes, what stops you from setting up your own business?

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Jan 5, 2017

OP, can you paste the link to your SJW tumblr?

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Jan 5, 2017

As someone who doesn't have a degree I have focused my efforts on the CFA. I still don't think I would get a job in PE or IBD (maybe FO AM at best) as a CFA, but I think I would help me start my own firm even if it very small.

Don't complain about a companies policy just focus on fixing the core of the issue. If that is an alternative type of education, networking, or apply to a different firm.

Jan 5, 2017

Just as a quick side note for you, @LeadingIndicator you cannot obtain a CFA charter without a degree. You can still take the tests and let companies know that you passed a certain level, but you cannot obtain the charter. This can get tacked onto the fairness debate, but that's the way it stands currently.

Jan 5, 2017

That actually isn't true.

The requirement as listed is:

"A bachelor's degree or equivalent education/work experience"
I have over 8 years of professional work experience - 3.5 of which are at a large fixed income shop.

Jan 5, 2017

I did see that, and I always took that to apply to other countries which may not have a bachelor's program like the US. If you've already checked with CFAI or know someone else that has done it, then go for it. I just think about how much time the CFA program stole from me, and when I saw the comment I wanted to make sure you weren't putting it the time and not getting the credit.

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Jan 5, 2017

That is a really good point - It was actually the CFA exam requirements that led me to believe this might be possible.

They go very in-depth regarding the combination which I thought was a good glimpse into their philosophy. However you might be right and I might just have rose colored glasses on.

One of the following:
Undergraduate education: A bachelor's (or equivalent) degree or be in the final year of your bachelor's degree program (when you register for the Level II exam, you will be required to update your education information), or
Work experience: Four years of professional work experience (does not have to be investment related), or
A combination of professional work experience and education that totals at least four years (part-time positions do not qualify, and the four-year total must be accrued prior to enrollment).

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Jan 5, 2017

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Jan 5, 2017