Citi IBD or PIMCO Summer analyst

if you had to choose between Citi IBD (new york) or PIMCO product analyst (newport beach). Which would you go for? thanks

Comments (24)

Feb 24, 2011

Citi IBD but I like Citigroup's name so I am biased in that sense.

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Feb 24, 2011

Two completely different opportunities. Perhaps if you share what your plan is post Ugrad, the advice given in this thread will be more helpful.

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"

Feb 24, 2011

Dunno really, buyside seems like a place i'd like to be (hedge fund). what do you think the career paths are for these places?

Feb 24, 2011

Depends on your career goals but I'd personally go Citi IBD.

Feb 24, 2011

Well, if you are unsure, I would probably recommend IBD as this will be great internship experience regardless of your end goal.

Think of it this way, you will still probably be able to apply to PIMCO with IBD experience; it might make it more difficult to get into IBD from PIMCO. This is of course not 100%, but something to consider.

However, if HF is your goal, PIMCO could be a great internship to open doors and neither are going to hurt your resume.

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"

Feb 24, 2011

PIMCO is great, but, at the analyst level, you would be much better off at Citi.

Citi will give you more options for full time recruiting, and will teach you more rigorous analytical skills than an AM firm.

Going from IBD to AM is a common path, and arguably preferable to starting in AM if you want to become a portfolio manager. If you look at the resumes of many top PM's you will see many did an analyst stint in banking, then got their MBA before jumping to AM.

Moving from AM to IBD is not so easy. And, as tempting as Newport Beach is, your experience there will be discounted versus starting in New York. If you are 100% sure that you want to work in AM in Southern California for your entire career, take PIMCO; otherwise, Citi will serve you better.

Feb 24, 2011
West Coast rainmaker:

Citi will ... teach you more rigorous analytical skills than an AM firm.

A Citi IBD stint is more analytical than a product management stint for sure, but I disagree with the blanket statement about AM firms. I would think that buyside equity research or asset allocation strat stuff are every bit as analytical as IBD anywhere.

West Coast rainmaker:

Going from IBD to AM is a common path, and arguably preferable to starting in AM if you want to become a portfolio manager. If you look at the resumes of many top PM's you will see many did an analyst stint in banking, then got their MBA before jumping to AM.

Dont believe so. Most of the PMs at my firms came from buyside research. However, if you ask me IBD vs product management on the buyside, I think IBD is a lot more relevant in terms of becoming a PM. Hedge funds are a different story, a lot more ex-IBD guys on that side.

Feb 24, 2011
What-to-do-What-to-do:
West Coast rainmaker:

Citi will ... teach you more rigorous analytical skills than an AM firm.

A Citi IBD stint is more analytical than a product management stint for sure, but I disagree with the blanket statement about AM firms. I would think that buyside equity research or asset allocation strat stuff are every bit as analytical as IBD anywhere.

West Coast rainmaker:

Going from IBD to AM is a common path, and arguably preferable to starting in AM if you want to become a portfolio manager. If you look at the resumes of many top PM's you will see many did an analyst stint in banking, then got their MBA before jumping to AM.

Dont believe so. Most of the PMs at my firms came from buyside research. However, if you ask me IBD vs product management on the buyside, I think IBD is a lot more relevant in terms of becoming a PM. Hedge funds are a different story, a lot more ex-IBD guys on that side.

I definitely agree with you on the first point; I should have been clear that I was thinking of the role the OP was looking at. IB is not that quant; I would argue almost any industry has certain roles more analytically challenging than analyst work.

But again, IB analyst work is more analyticially challenging that product.

On your second point, I think that the percentage of guys moving into PM roles from banking differs across firms. But, I was not trying to imply that it was the most common path- just not an uncommon one. Former research analysts definitely comprise the bulk of PMs.

I think that overall, Citi would prepare you better for buyside PM and hedge funds (if you are interested in that), as well as giving you a wider range of opportunities outside of investments.

Feb 24, 2011
West Coast rainmaker:
What-to-do-What-to-do:
West Coast rainmaker:

Citi will ... teach you more rigorous analytical skills than an AM firm.

A Citi IBD stint is more analytical than a product management stint for sure, but I disagree with the blanket statement about AM firms. I would think that buyside equity research or asset allocation strat stuff are every bit as analytical as IBD anywhere.

West Coast rainmaker:

Going from IBD to AM is a common path, and arguably preferable to starting in AM if you want to become a portfolio manager. If you look at the resumes of many top PM's you will see many did an analyst stint in banking, then got their MBA before jumping to AM.

Dont believe so. Most of the PMs at my firms came from buyside research. However, if you ask me IBD vs product management on the buyside, I think IBD is a lot more relevant in terms of becoming a PM. Hedge funds are a different story, a lot more ex-IBD guys on that side.

I definitely agree with you on the first point; I should have been clear that I was thinking of the role the OP was looking at. IB is not particularly quant; I would argue almost any industry has certain roles more analytically challenging than analyst work.

On your second point, I think that the percentage of guys moving into PM roles from banking differs across firms. But, I was not trying to imply that it was the most common path- just not an uncommon one. Former research analysts definitely comprise the bulk of PMs.

I think our responses are not mutually exclusive in a sense. Even the ex-IBD PMs on the traditional AMs would typically spend at least a couple years in research after an MBA, so they are by design ex research analyst and ex IBD guys. There are simply not that many positions within actual investing side for undergrads.
Btw, I think your point is very much true in the HF landscape. Many PMs with IBD background on that side, probably a majority too.

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Feb 24, 2011

PIMCO for sure. but im into investments/markets, hedge funds/emerging markets

corporate finance (IBD) is very different from this so know what you are getting yourself into. HF's don't really like seeing ibankers, (as opposed to say a consultant from a top firm)

unless you wanna do PE, which i hate, than go for PIMCO

but hey do what ya wanna do

    • 1
Feb 24, 2011
lifesgreatmystery:

PIMCO for sure. but im into investments/markets, hedge funds/emerging markets

corporate finance (IBD) is very different from this so know what you are getting yourself into. HF's don't really like seeing ibankers, (as opposed to say a consultant from a top firm)

unless you wanna do PE, which i hate, than go for PIMCO

but hey do what ya wanna do

I disagree. For an end goal of being a PM, I will take IBD on the sell side over product management on the buyside, even at PIMCO, any day. The skillset you gain from IBD is much more applicable for the switch to the investment side of an AM.

Feb 24, 2011

and above poster is right in saying that ex-ibd's end up in these other finance roles because the ibanking class is huge each year.... where as there are only a few undergrad buy-side spots

so it there is bound to be, by logical extension, more "ex-ibankers" in any field or any job any where in the world

Feb 25, 2011

If this were an entry level PMG role, like that fixed income PMG internship at BlackRock, I would recommend choosing that for portfolio management.

But, product will not provide the same financial analysis training as IBD, let alone PMG.

Feb 25, 2011

I actually looked into this a bit further and, after having consulted some friends in buyside investing, can confidently recommend the Citi internship.

Basically, being a product associate is a marketing job. Your superiors in product design portfolios, but based on what they can market vs. what has the best investment opportunities. Your job would be to perform market research.

By no means is this a bad job, but it will not teach you investing beyond the exposure you get to financial products. Although you will not be investing in IBD, you will be performing the valuations that are the basis for investments on the buyside.

In addition to this more applicable skill set, you will have a wider range of options open to you afterward if you decide on PE, corp dev, or something different entirely. Worst case, you decide AM is what you really want to do; if you could get an internship this year, you would definitely be able to get a full time offer in the fall. And, with IB experience, that offer could potentially be in a better group, like PM.

PIMCO is better known in AM than Citi, no question. But, the work you would be doing in IB is more applicable to your future goals, unless you want to pursue product mgt/marketing as a career. It is a little like asking which would give you a better shot at PE: a middle office role at Goldman, or being a M&A analyst at Jefferies. The latter comes out ahead.

Feb 25, 2011

Thanks guys, this was very helpful. Will probably go to Citi now.

Feb 25, 2011

i wouldn't really call this a "middle office" role at PIMCO. and you can't compare this to non-FO roles at a BB (with tens of thousands of employees)

algorithm, i would consult other sources before you decide. this forum is primarily for ibankers so you will get a skewed picture

i.e., saying IBD is the bedrock of any career in finance is just false... warren buffet didn't work on the street and said he's glad he never did

Feb 25, 2011

forgot to add, (and even ibankers will agree with me), ibanking SA's (esp in NYC) are an awful experience. you work constantly. you barely have time to eat lunch, you are completely exhausted at the end of the day. the fact of the matter is, if you weren't paid more than most internships, NO ONE would do it. fact.

unless you're SURE you want to do PE or corp finance for a F500 company, working at PIMCO in orange county, california, is literally going to be a dream. amazing hours, great connections, and people who will care more about you and give you solid advice than Citi. and lets be honest, it'll be more interesting work. get a tan at the beach and hook up with hot girls every night. so many people would kill for ANY type of job, much less a gig at PIMCO

in all honesty.. PIMCO will just give you a higher quality of life (as a function of your environment, stress, hours worked, and compensation based on what you have to do)

again, do what you want to, not what other people tell you to do

Feb 25, 2011

Out of curiosity: how would BlackRock PAG (portfolio analytics group) compare with either of these two?

Feb 25, 2011

Don't confuse PAG and PMG. PMG is the desirable front office group. PAG is a very technology focused group that gives you not much transferable skills, and pretty much middle/back office. You will be compiling risk analytics report most of the time.

Feb 25, 2011

Agreed with What-to-do. PAG is tech intensive, and no more relevant to buyside work than the product role. That said, I know that many ex-PAG go onto investment management within BlackRock. However, this is more a carrot for PAG analysts than any definite career path.

I would not say PIMCO has such short hours; it's less than banking, but not a 9-5. IB will work you hard, but that is part of what makes it so valuable. Again, IBD will give you a better pathway into buyside investing than product. I would even say IBD would give you a better chance to get into PM at PIMCO than product. Really, nearly any job will give you a better quality of life than an analyst. Southern California is nice, but NYC isn't horrible by any means, especially if you have some cash.

And, lifesgreatmystery, I don't think you can comment on the people at PIMCO vs Citi. The cultures will come down to the 5-10 people you work with regularly.

There are certainly other means into buyside finance, but I would recommend research, trading, or AM at a smaller firm, not product.

Feb 25, 2011

yea i mean im not saying you dont learn anything in IBD, just sayin you dont HAVE to do that.

warren buffet started in sales...steve jobs didn't finish college... you don't HAVE to fit into the mold of anything.

basically, you only have one summer for SA and i think wasting it slaving away at Citi IBD is a shame. why not hit up orange county and get some hot cali girls? corporate finance is just so boring.

PIMCO will def have better work culture, as is most the case when you compare private to public companies (its not even a fair comparison..)

Feb 25, 2011

Life, you realize IBD is not the same as corporate finance (as in F500 FP&A, business analyst type stuff), right?

Actually algorithm, I noticed you said that you were interested in HF in an previous post.

Probably the most common routes into hedge funds are trading and research, with people specializing in whatever product or industry they covered while trading/researching.

Ex-bankers make up the next largest group; they generally go to fundamental or global macro funds.

You also have quants and programmers, but I am guessing neither of those descriptions apply to you.

Finally, you have the "did something else" crowd, generally coming from bschool. Now, people that worked in buyside firms in non-investment roles make up a disproportionate number of this group, but that is because a) they were likely interested to begin with, and b) had the opportunity to network while working. Not because the skills they picked up were particularly relevant.

Banking is certainly not the only way, or even the most common way, into HFs. But, it provides you with a solid financial foundation on which to build upon in any number of industries. If you go through the analyst program, any future employer immediately knows what that entailed; after two years, you have the option to go to the buyside, likely at a more senior level than if you started there.

Analyst life sucks, no doubt about it. However, there is a good reason why so many ivy-league grads beg to work 100+ hour weeks. It is a powerful brand.

You could certainly get into PM after working in product, but it would come down to your ability to network and sell yourself. It would also be more difficult to go to another firm, as all your contacts would be at PIMCO, and you wouldn't have a highly technical skill set to leverage.

Edit: Also, I don't think you can generalize culture on public vs. private. I stick with my assertion that the 5-10 guys you work with directly will define your experience with the firm's culture. Also consider: Moelis LA (private) vs Google (public).

Feb 25, 2011

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Feb 25, 2011