Consequences after being caught cheating

Hello,

I am not proud of what I have done but I think the US academic pushed me to focus too much on academics rather than the actual content.

Background: I am an international student and my undergrad was business, I had the chance to be accepted in an intensive computer science grad program for non-cs majors. However, I need to have at least a 3.00 GPA for each of classes if I want to stay in the program. I am currently taking 2 classes (discrete structures) and another programming class.

I need a minimum of 3.00 GPA for each class I am taking. I only have 2 classes right now but I am also working part-time, most of my classmates have a CS background but even for them, it's quite challenging.

I am doing pretty well in the discrete class but I struggle in the programming class. I have 1 project every week for the programming class since last week everything was fine. My last homework was super hard and even after going to TA office hours, I couldn't do it. I know this is totally stupid but I really don't want to retake the class next semester so I found someone on freelancer.com to do my homework.

Everything worked perfectly and I decided to submit it. I got an email from my professor this morning and she asked me to come to her office, I did not know why but I was sure she could not figure out I cheated. It turns out that the freelancer I hired just copied and paste the code from Github.

The meeting just lasted for a few seconds. She just said something like "you cheated, you copied your code from Git Hub and you'll get a 0 for that exam. You will also get an email from the academic integrity to tell you what's next for you."

She did not want to hear from me so I could not tell her that it was going to fast for me. I own my mistake, I take a risk by hiring someone else and what goes around comes around, that 0 may be hard to overcome but academic integrity is most serious. I am probably going to be convened by the academic integrity to hear from me.

I know I may be kicked out of the school for that, but how can I defend myself?

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Comments (149)

Dec 3, 2018

What is there to defend?

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Dec 3, 2018

while i agree there is nothing to defend...you are not disputing the facts....you can say that you found the solution on git hub...and you thought that was a good solution to the homework problem.

in the future, when you use copied work...i suggest you spend time to understand the copied material, and then rewrite it yourself so that you can create original work.

just google it...you're welcome

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Funniest
Dec 3, 2018

Exchange student cheats in college.

News at 11

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Dec 6, 2018

God this is so true. In my "basic" physics class we had a row of students just passing exams back and forth. I really wanted to turn them in, but I knew my grade wouldn't suffer for it. Almost none of them were in the exam, so I assume a TA saw them or someone else turned them in. Annoying. If you're going to cheat, at least be discreet.

Dec 10, 2018

This is just a racist comment. What does Huawei's CFO getting arrested have to do with some exchange students cheating. If you don't understand the dynamics behind the Huawei situation, then perhaps you should't be talking.

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Dec 10, 2018

There was no mention of race at all. I took it to mean that in certain countries (particularly countries that are growing very aggressively) there is a pressure to deliver on milestones/numbers that leads to cheating, both academic and financial. If race is all you see in the Huawei mention, maybe you're the racist.

Dec 11, 2018
Henry-Who:

This is just a racist comment. What does Huawei's CFO getting arrested have to do with some exchange students cheating. If you don't understand the dynamics behind the Huawei situation, then perhaps you should't be talking.

Thanks for getting my racist comment deleted. WSO is now a better place. Carry on.

Dec 10, 2018

As if Americans never cheat...

Dec 10, 2018
Rhinopithecus:

As if Americans never cheat...

Well, we understand the sociocultural dynamic better; what's forgivable if you get caught; what you isn't.

The same thing exists in China. People get sent to jail for ten years for petty theft; yet when people accidentally hit pedestrians, they back the car up and run over them for good measure to make sure there's no disability claim. China knows what it can get away with, and it's different from the US.

Basically, in the US the system's energies have mostly been devoted to preventing cheating, stealing, fraud, theft, deception, etc for the past few hundred years. (Really since England) In Eastern Europe, East Asia, and much of the world, the system's efforts have often been devoted to enforcing ideology. So, since that's what has been getting measured, that is the result for the population in the US.

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Dec 3, 2018

Make sure you never leave any high-quality clothes at their place because you won't be getting it back.

    • 24
Dec 5, 2018

Comment follows your username. 9.3/10

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Dec 5, 2018

this comment should be rated higher than mine

Dec 3, 2018
French35:

Hello,

I am not proud of what I have done but I think the US academic pushed me to focus too much on academics rather than the actual content.

Here's what you do:

  1. Stop blaming
  2. Take responsibility
  3. Move on with your life

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

If you read the whole post, OP does take responsibility.

Not defending OP's actions at all, but if you have nothing useful to say, why speak?

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Dec 5, 2018
PteroGonzalez:

If you read the whole post, OP does take responsibility.

Not defending OP's actions at all, but if you have nothing useful to say, why speak?

If you read the statement I quoted, he is not taking full responsibility for his actions. He's playing the blame game.

If hooked on phonics doesn't work for you, what does?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
Dec 5, 2018

Furthermore, you don't take 80% responsibility. You take 100%. You don't start half ass with 'but this' and 'but that'. Blaming the US Academic system. What a fucking joke. He started out not taking responsibility in his statement, so he is still playing the blame game. Until he departs from this completely, there is no moving on.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

ditto. take ownership, no matter what. even if it wasn't 100% your fault, you take ownership. it'll make you better long term for it

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Dec 5, 2018

LOL really? Sounds like someone took summer analyst orientation to heart a little too much. "Under-promise and over-deliver!" "Take ownership of everything!"

Chill out. OP knows he fucked up. People in his situation either (1) get kicked out of school or (2) get another chance. I think he's just asking how to get to door #2. He doesn't need the White Collar Marines to beat some character into him.

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Dec 5, 2018

Because this is an anonymous online forum so he can say whatever he pleases and you're not gonna do anything about it?

Dec 5, 2018

That goes for all of us. But most people don't find it worthwhile to post something that only cuts people down and doesn't have any use for anyone who reads it. As the SB categories suggest: be funny or be helpful or both.

Dec 5, 2018
PteroGonzalez:

if you have nothing useful to say, why speak?

Also, you remind me of a typical millennial. I say a few words, all nice and neat, and you think its not enough. Think of the depth of what I said in those bullet points and what it is going to take for him to accomplish these steps. He hasn't even gotten past step 1 yet. If caught for cheating he might get blacklisted from the school and other schools and number 3 will be very difficult.

All for a stupid ass assignment. I was elected to the Honor Court in undergrad and have prosecuted people for breaking the Honor Code and it is brutal, dude. There's a formal (private) hearing at the end with the verdict and the student and their parents and it is pretty much a sob session near the end. Sometimes the student sits there stone-faced and then after it ends, the parents just lose it. $120K scholarship? Gone. Want to transfer to another school? Nope. Blacklisted.

Because in this world, all it really comes down to is your honor. Your word. Its very simple, but if you think you can cut corners, you can crush your career or tear down your reputation in a second. Don't ever forget that. Also, he tarnished the reputation of the school. They had a requirement and he did not meet it. There are repercussions to breaking the honor code. It weakens the institution. It cannot be tolerated.

There are no excuses for Honor violations. Unless you had a gun to your head, you committed the act and its pretty cut and dry - if sufficient evidence is found to prove without a reasonable doubt that you committed the act. In one trial, a chick and her boyfriend broke up and he sent naked pictures of her to the whole school or something like that. Shortly after, she was accused of an Honor violation. It was something similar to your case - cheating on an assignment. Her defense was that this level of stress caused her to act out of character and commit the Honor violation. Do you think she was let off the hook because she was stressed out? No. Did something out of the ordinary happen to her? Yes. Is that a reason to commit an Honor violation? No.

There's never going to be a reason to commit an honor violation unless you have to do it because your life or a family member or close associate of yours is in lethal danger. That's a whole different story and most of those people work for intelligence agencies. As normal work people, we should not look to lying, cheating or stealing as an option in everyday life. We have enough food, we don't need to steal.

But this path has brought the OP to a road that should be clear to him now. The point that he can't cut corners. Not only is it a bad habit in life, its just bad for the soul. It builds up anxiety, you have to think about it constantly. All to save some time for an assignment? Its just not worth it.

The OP asked for help on how to handle the situation. In my mind, the act has already been done. The steps I outlined are to prepare for getting kicked out of the school. My alma mater wouldn't keep students in the school with that kind of evidence. He would be lucky if they gave him a second chance - I'm not sure what the school policy on cheating is.

So, OP, in the academic integrity board if you have it, own up. Don't fucking blame anyone or anything. Just own it and pray they give you another chance. Because if it was me, I wouldn't. But, in the trials I have been a part of, we didn't give people much chance to speak. Specific answers to questions during the trial and maybe final words after the verdict - that's it. I'd look into the specific processes of the academic integrity board for your school to prepare yourself.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

Wow. WSO already had it's entertaining moments, but didn't think I'd get to meet a guy who reminisces about the glory days of Honor Club or whatever it's called.

Most of us are able to go through life just, you know, not cheating and stuff. We don't go around yelling about it. Try taking yourself a little less seriously. You sound like Uncle Rico, except at least he gets to talk about football instead of Honor Club.

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Dec 5, 2018

Actually I just noticed your quote at the bottom and you sound like Aleksey Vayner too. A mix of Uncle Rico and Aleskey Vayner, now that is some special shit. Blow hard and blow often.

You mentioned your alma mater a few times . . West Point? Naval Academy? Or are those the places you just dreamed of 24/7?

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Dec 5, 2018
PteroGonzalez:

Actually I just noticed your quote at the bottom and you sound like Aleksey Vayner too. A mix of Uncle Rico and Aleskey Vayner, now that is some special shit. Blow hard and blow often.

First of all, honor the dead. He didn't die too long ago and it wasn't a pleasant death if I recall correctly. Not cool bro.

Second, Bruce Lee is the fucking man. I don't care what I sound like if I quote him. If more people would live by his words in this life, the world would be a better place. Even if it just got the lazy people off their ass and fixed the welfare state, it would be something. But, to make fun of Bruce Lee, you must not know him too well. Definitely not someone who practices martial arts / Muay Thai / BJJ.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018
PteroGonzalez:

You mentioned your alma mater a few times . . West Point? Naval Academy? Or are those the places you just dreamed of 24/7?

damn dude you want my whole fucking resume?

I'll show you some military background - heres what my family looks like:

Dad: Ivy undergrad, Navy Pilot
Sis: Annapolis, Navy Pilot
Bro: Annapolis, Navy SEAL
Me: The Citadel, USAF
Bro-in-law: Navy Helicopter Pilot

Satisfied?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

Do you kill your meals before eating them or just bite the head off of live chickens?

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Dec 5, 2018

in today's edition of "quit while you're behind"

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Dec 5, 2018

@PteroGonzalez

I think you should actually take some time to watch this movie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lords_of_Discipl...(film)
or read the book, by Pat Conroy:

https://www.amazon.com/Lords-Discipline-Novel-Pat-...
To lose your honor at the school is so disgraceful, that they used to 'drum out' cadets if they broke the honor code. They would have to leave campus with everyone lined up on both sides and they would be 'drummed out'. Literally. Shunned by everyone in the school. It almost seems like an Indian/tribal ritual. They were told to never mention his name again. He had no honor, therefore no place here. Never speak his name again. This act was one deemed so harsh, that they disestablished 'drumming out' for honor code violations and now the trials/result are mainly behind closed doors, but the outcome is still very severe.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

Because if you have no honor, what do you actually have?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 10, 2018

bro the citadel is for weird retards that are hardo enough to want a westpoint/annapolis/airforce academy experience but too dumb and/or weird to get it

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Dec 10, 2018
dveltman:

bro the citadel is for weird retards that are hardo enough to want a westpoint/annapolis/airforce academy experience but too dumb and/or weird to get it

Great points --- and such eloquence.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 10, 2018

Isn't everyone on here looking to get/give professional advice u out here jerkin yaself off lmao

Dec 10, 2018
dveltman:

Isn't everyone on here looking to get/give professional advice u out here jerkin yaself off lmao

I gave some points, was asked for more background. Gave more background and some additional information to paint the picture.

I'm not just pasting random shit, if I were, my post count here would be 100,000 because I am non-stop. You better be happy about that.

Cheers.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 10, 2018

PS - In retrospect though, I did seriously hijack this thread. I get very wrapped up into honor and it was quite a learning experience for me actually as I hadn't heard of all these lenient systems and was quite surprised that 'light cheating' is allowed at some schools.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DimGraciousGrub-size_restricted.gif

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

Appreciate the suggestions, it just seems like a lot of work to drill in a lesson that most people pick up easily enough. Cheating is bad. Got it.

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Dec 5, 2018
PteroGonzalez:

Appreciate the suggestions, it just seems like a lot of work to drill in a lesson that most people pick up easily enough. Cheating is bad. Got it.

Yeah.

Here's a pretty good article about it:

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-03/news/vw-416...
A Matter of Honor : Cheating. Lying. Stealing. With these kind of scandals dogging college campuses, it would seem integrity has fallen from favor. But in reality, codes of conduct are on the rise--and it's often the students who are pushing them.
April 03, 1994 |RUDY ABRAMSON | SPECIAL TO THE TIMES

"...After 30 years, Lt. Col. Mike Strickler, a VMI graduate now on the institute's staff, vividly remembers the spring morning when a classmate was drummed out for cheating, just 10 days before he was to graduate. During one year while Strickler was a cadet, six members of the regiment were drummed out. In another year, there were only two. He remembers them all.

He also remembers the 12-word code that every VMI "rat" memorizes the day he arrives: "A cadet will neither lie, cheat, steal nor tolerate those who do."

That code, said Danny Felton, one of about 225 fourth classmen due to graduate from the 155-year-old institute this spring, "is the cadet's most cherished possession."

Variations on this rule of conduct are embraced by 100 or so institutions of higher learning, in addition to the Army, Navy and Air Force academies and venerable military schools such as VMI and the Citadel. They range from small private schools such as Washington and Lee and Bryn Mawr to Princeton and Rice, and to the University of Maryland with 38,000 students.

At some, they are enshrined and forgotten in student handbooks; at others, they have become the cornerstone of academic integrity.

More often than not, honor systems have been installed at the urging of students, in many cases because of concern over cheating.

Although schools with viable honor systems remain a small minority, there is, says Samuel Sadler, vice president for student affairs at the College of William & Mary, "a decided movement" toward making codes a fixture on more campuses.

Typically, the codes explicitly forbid lying, cheating and stealing, and require students to take some action when they have knowledge of violations by their peers. Punishment is usually meted out by student tribunals. In return, the school administration allows unproctored examinations, with students sometimes taking the tests at a time and place of their choosing.

Nearly every week, Washington and Lee, whose campus adjoins that of VMI, receives inquiries or visits from other schools interested in its widely regarded system.

Students at Colgate University in Hamilton, N.Y., are expected to vote soon on adoption of a code. An honor system is under serious consideration at Georgetown University in Washington.

Other schools, such as Duke and Johns Hopkins, have taken steps to strengthen their codes, and others, including Stanford, are contemplating ways to enhance honor systems.

Last month, University of Virginia students turned out in extraordinary numbers for an honor code referendum, voting by a margin of 3 to 1 to retain a system that, for 152 years, has required permanent expulsion for an honor code conviction. Codes have been stiffened elsewhere, too.

So why should this 19th-Century creation--expanded, codified and preserved by military academies and old schools for men of the Southern gentry--now flourish? Especially now, in a generation that hates rules? Even in mega-universities where neither race, gender, history, culture, aspiration nor personal acquaintance provide unity?

The answer is evidently a sharpened concern over academic integrity--a subject brought dramatically to mind by the cheating scandal that has dogged the U.S. Naval Academy for more than a year.

Cheating, studies show, is pervasive. It involves students struggling for A's and admission to prestigious graduate schools as well as those flirting with academic failure.

A landmark survey of 6,000 students in 31 of the country's prestigious colleges and universities two years ago found that nearly 70% had cheated--if all manner of minor infractions were taken into account. The figures approached 80% for non-honor code schools and 60% for those with codes."

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

I totally get where you're coming from, but typically military schools don't have a lot of foreign exchange students, and my sense is that they'd probably be posting on flightsquadron or something rather than WSO. My guess is that unless this is Princeton, UVA, or Haverford, there's no honor code. There certainly wasn't one at UIUC (there was an academic integrity policy).

1.) What this kid is accused of is less serious than the truth. But he fessed up to us. He didn't have to. With us, he's admitted it, and he owns the problem.
2.) As an employer, I consider getting caught yanking code from GitHub to be more of a gray area-- and probably a lighter than darker gray-- than a black-and-white issue like cheating on an exam or hiring someone else to do your homework for you. Now, it's a lot lighter gray when you comment your code to provide attribution, but that's another past imperfect tense.
3.) The correct answer for this very particular situation-- where the private facts are much uglier than the public allegations-- is the same as the correct answer for getting stopped doing 60 in a 45 after being involved in a high-speed police chase half an hour earlier. You quietly check "I plead guilty" on the back of the speeding ticket, mail in your check for $255, take the insurance rate hit, and hope that's the last of it.

OP should thank his lucky stars and maybe start contributing to opensource projects on GitHub. Actually, that would be a cool way to spin this whole situation with employers in 2-3 years.

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Dec 5, 2018

I would say the vast majority of people do not demonstrate a moral standard when tested ever, at all, much less "easily."

@Isaiah_53_5 mad props

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Dec 5, 2018
Synergy_or_Syzygy:

I would say the vast majority of people do not demonstrate a moral standard when tested ever, at all, much less "easily."

@Isaiah_53_5 mad props

word.

I mean I grew up with this stuff. I flew from Panama to Annapolis twice in the 80s to see my brother and sister graduate there (I was living near the canal off of Ft. Clayton). My Dad was drinking buddies with John McCain when they were in flight school together in '58. Maybe I am used to what this sense of honor means as we use it in our military. I was around the DoD from the early 1980s growing up until about 2010. Just family, friends, the whole environment. What it means to serve and the way you live. It could be culturally different and especially East versus West. I definitely do see the trade of 'copying' and 'cheating' in places like China. It seems to be somewhat accepted over there. Accepted as long as you don't get sued by the real brand and get caught.

But, as @thebrofessor pointed out, indiscretions are inevitable and the main thing is to face them with honor, whatever they may be. I've gotten into all kinds of shit in my life, but the best thing to do is face the facts and deal with it. Even breaking the rules, that's one thing. But, lying about breaking the rules, is something completely different.

Anyway.

1980s Annapolis. Saw Ronald fucking Reagan give a diploma to my sibling one year. Then, years later, I received my diploma from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

1958 - The crew at Navy flight school - John McCain in the aviators

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 10, 2018

bro like what is this...show and tell lmao

Dec 10, 2018
dveltman:

bro like what is this...show and tell lmao

yeah bro

start taking notes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlKb-rxWsAAPtYa.jpg
get someeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 10, 2018

either way citadel is a weirdo play my guy, if youre gonna go to charleston, go to cofc

Dec 10, 2018
dveltman:

either way citadel is a weirdo play my guy, if youre gonna go to charleston, go to cofc

Yeah, I wouldn't have gotten into C of C and was actually rejected by the Assistant Dean at The Citadel. My grades in HS just were piss poor.

But, what would my grades have been like at C of C? Probably a 2.9 or 3.1 or some lame shit with lots of parties. The Citadel kept me under control and I finished with honors. I still got to go to all the C of C parties and meet the C of C girls. They love guys in uniform. But, was also in the surfer/skate crew so hung out in 'civies' a lot like a normal 'person'.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 10, 2018
Isaiah_53_5:

Yeah, I wouldn't have gotten into C of C and was actually rejected by the Assistant Dean at The Citadel. My grades in HS just were piss poor.

But, what would my grades have been like at C of C? Probably a 2.9 or 3.1 or some lame shit with lots of parties. The Citadel kept me under control and I finished with honors. I still got to go to all the C of C parties and meet the C of C girls. They love guys in uniform. But, was also in the surfer/skate crew so hung out in 'civies' a lot like a normal 'person'.

The difference between a Midwestern state school and Wall Street culture is huge.

The difference between The Citadel or Annapolis and Wall Street is even bigger.

You can't win this one bro. Just let it go.

-The Al Sharpton of State Schools.

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Dec 10, 2018
IlliniProgrammer:
Isaiah_53_5:

Yeah, I wouldn't have gotten into C of C and was actually rejected by the Assistant Dean at The Citadel. My grades in HS just were piss poor.

But, what would my grades have been like at C of C? Probably a 2.9 or 3.1 or some lame shit with lots of parties. The Citadel kept me under control and I finished with honors. I still got to go to all the C of C parties and meet the C of C girls. They love guys in uniform. But, was also in the surfer/skate crew so hung out in 'civies' a lot like a normal 'person'.

The difference between a Midwestern state school and Wall Street culture is huge.

The difference between The Citadel or Annapolis and Wall Street is even bigger.

You can't win this one bro. Just let it go.

-The Al Sharpton of State Schools.

lol ok thanks Illin, good to know

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
Dec 10, 2018

makes sense that youre out here writing paragraphs of useless spew to little kids tho, sounds like a citadel grad lmao

Dec 10, 2018
dveltman:

makes sense that youre out here writing paragraphs of useless spew to little kids tho, sounds like a citadel grad lmao

Yeah - 30% of my posts are probably in the career section. Believe it or not, I actually give a shit.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 6, 2018

read that book in high school it was epic

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Dec 10, 2018

The Lords of Discipline is one of the best books I've ever read. RIP to Pat Conroy -- his books are truly a gift.

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Dec 5, 2018
PteroGonzalez:

Wow. WSO already had it's entertaining moments, but didn't think I'd get to meet a guy who reminisces about the glory days of Honor Club or whatever it's called.

Most of us are able to go through life just, you know, not cheating and stuff. We don't go around yelling about it. Try taking yourself a little less seriously. You sound like Uncle Rico, except at least he gets to talk about football instead of Honor Club.

Life is about duty, honor, and country. I don't know what farmhill you grew up on, but these are the things that I value and I will defend them. If you want to talk about some club, have a turkey sandwich (turkey club). I didn't join a club. I was elected to the Honor Court at a military academy. Maybe you don't really know what honor means to a country or institution and feel jolly downplaying it. I do not take honor lightly.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

A Few Good Men. We all saw the movie dude. At least you changed a few words before pasting Jack's speech . . as OP should've done with his stolen code.

Dec 5, 2018

But in all seriousness:

  1. Thank you for your service, and your family as well
  2. Sorry about the A. Vayner remark, I thought it was safe territory given the fame level and 5+ years since passing, but I'll agree I got too close to the line.
  3. I don't think honor isn't worthwhile, I just think the mission here is to help a guy stay in school.
    • 1
Dec 6, 2018
PteroGonzalez:

But in all seriousness:

  1. Thank you for your service, and your family as well
  2. Sorry about the A. Vayner remark, I thought it was safe territory given the fame level and 5+ years since passing, but I'll agree I got too close to the line.
  3. I don't think honor isn't worthwhile, I just think the mission here is to help a guy stay in school.

+1. There's some honor in the kid's honesty with us, and the goal is to help him.

Nobody is advising him to lie. Everyone is advising him it's smart to take responsibility. And everyone is advising him that it would be stupid to try pulling stuff like this again, because he's probably going to get caught again. So this kid's best interests bend towards justice. And I think there's a way to get through to him that advances his objectives and your objectives, too.

    • 1
Dec 6, 2018

why was the girl punished when the guy was the one who sent out her pictures to the whole school? That sounds very unreasonable.

Dec 7, 2018
consultant120:

why was the girl punished when the guy was the one who sent out her pictures to the whole school? That sounds very unreasonable.

She was accused of an Honor Violation shortly after that for plagiarism or something.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018

Interesting. I think the degree of the violation should impact what the penalty is (and the penalty should be tiered). For example, hiring someone to take an exam/do an assignment, etc. sounds more intense than say, two kids collaborating on an assignment and turning in similar but not entirely similar work. Also, in the coding example, copying two lines of code in a 10k lines of code assignment, is not the same as copying 5k lines of code.

Our legal US justice system doesn't operate in absolutes and neither should schools.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018
consultant120:

Our legal US justice system doesn't operate in absolutes and neither should schools.

What are you talking about?

If you lie on the stand in the US justice system, you have perjured yourself. You either tell the truth or tell a lie.

You make the decision to cheat or you do not cheat.

If a school makes variations or degrees of cheating in their handbook, I think they have just weakened themselves. Variations of cheating? Degrees of cheating? This is stupid.

Just do the assignment or don't do the assignment. Get a fucking zero. If the handbook says you can't do X and you do X, it is your dumb ass who should be kicked out of the school. It is basically a contract with the school. What are absolutes? You do what is in the handbook/contract or you're fucking out.

Your statement basically endorses 'light cheating'. Oh, it was just a 'homework quiz'. A take home test that said clearly on the top not to work with others. Fuck all that bro - if you want to go to college - just do the actual work.

Are you actually trying to say that cheating is 'ok', unless its like a 'real big exam or something'?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
    • 1
Dec 7, 2018

I've met a lot of UVA students and am impressed with their mentality on the honor system and take home tests. I think a lot of it has to do with the culture in the school. The 'mentality' to cheat and what is 'ok' and what is not.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
    • 1
Dec 10, 2018

UVA's honor code was modeled after my high school's honor code. It was the best foundation I could have ever received.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018

Criminal activities have different consequences. Shoplifting a 5 dollar candy is different than someone breaking into a car and stealing it. Breaking into someones house at gunpoint while the owner is at home and threatening assault is treated differently than breaking in without a weapon. Different factors are considered by the judge/jury in the sentencing.

Cheating is similar to committing a crime. It's not the equivalent of lying. Lying would be to deny the cheating took place when speaking to the honor committee and not coming clean (perjuring oneself).

My statement is not endorsing cheating. It's suggesting that operating in absolutes doesn't make sense. The kid that ran a cheating ring, selling code to dozens of students over a semester and profiting off of it, is not the same as the kid who worked on a homework assignment together with a peer.

I'm sort of amused by how intensely you care about this. You must be a fun person to be around and work with.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018
consultant120:

Cheating is similar to committing a crime.

Similar?

lol

https://media.giphy.com/media/InsZHDRcaVIxW/giphy.gif

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Dec 7, 2018
consultant120:

You must be a fun person to be around and work with.

I don't know why people like to say this little ring at the end of their arguments. Does this make your argument stronger? Did it make you feel better about yourself to say this? Like you're perched upon this high rock of 'fun' and you know what 'fun' is and 'being cool' and working with people that are 'chill'. What the fuck does this even mean? Don't say this stuff, because it is stupid. It doesn't make you look 'cooler' or add to your argument, and to be honest its just quite lame. lol soooo lame brooooo

https://images.encyclopediadramatica.rs/thumb/4/4e/Cartman_lame_animated.gif/300px-Cartman_lame_animated.gif

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Dec 7, 2018

Well you haven't really made a counterpoint to my recent points, so still waiting on that.

Fact is you know you're operating in absolutes and believe yourself to be more conservative/ethical than other people - given your view on how all cheating is equal and should be punished by expulsion. Fortunately as I've pointed out, that's not how the real world works (hence the legal example).

UVA's policy btw, is that if even after being caught cheating, the student comes clean and admits to the wrong doing, they can be spared expulsion. So there is some flexibility, even in the most strict honor code environments.

Your take however, is even worse because you're suggesting that the act of cheating alone is worthy of being kicked out.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018
consultant120:

Well you haven't really made a counterpoint to my recent points, so still waiting on that.

Fact is you know you're operating in absolutes and believe yourself to be more conservative/ethical than other people - given your view on how all cheating is equal and should be punished by expulsion. Fortunately as I've pointed out, that's not how the real world works (hence the legal example).

UVA's policy btw, is that if even after being caught cheating, the student comes clean and admits to the wrong doing, they can be spared expulsion. So there is some flexibility, even in the most strict honor code environments.

Your take however, is even worse because you're suggesting that the act of cheating alone is worthy of being kicked out.

I don't know the school specific policy there, but yes I support someone being kicked out for 1 offense for cheating on an exam or something.

The absolute is that it should never come to that point. You should never have the decision point in your mind to cheat. It prevents it at the nub ... otherwise we would have complete erosion in our education system. Some that get caught have probably cheated 10 - 20 times anyway, as they try not to get caught. I've heard other schools have more lenient systems, but frankly I am not too familiar with them and am uninterested in them as I view more lenient systems as the initial stages of erosion in their institution.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 3
Dec 9, 2018

Only a sith deals in absolutes

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018
consultant120:

I'm sort of amused by how intensely you care about this.

I don't think you quite understand my perspective.

First semester senior year I took on 2 majors with a minor (that I created) in 3 languages as an honor student and an array of other responsibilities including Company XO and 2nd Batt. SG rep (if you went there, you know what I went through to get the latter). 23 total credit hours that semester.

To say the least, I was fucking booked. I spent late nights at honor trials that didn't cut into my time, but much worse, they cut into my sleep time. I spent many nights all night at a trial to go straight to PT to go straight to class like a Zombie. IB Recruiters dream. I just put it into beast mode and cranked out solid effort and productivity.

When you sacrifice sleep time, you better do it for a damn good reason. I wouldn't have been there if I didn't believe in it. I fought for the strength of our system and I didn't always win.

One case, a girl was caught for plagarism, a freshman cadet. Freshman female cadets are radioactive from a PC perspective. In many ways. The honor court found her guilty and voted to kick her out. We had a 1 star Army General who approved and the only person who could overturn was the president at that time.

We had an interim president at the time and I think he was under pressure in many ways and there was a threat of a story breaking in the local papers about mistreatment of this cadet. I don't know. But, that year they gave her 'leniency' and she had to take some fucking course (and 1 semester suspension possibly).

Before the president made this decision, he called the entire honor court into a room and had an open discussion about his upcoming decision. It was horseshit. We listened to him give some speech and no one said anything. Because we weren't supposed to say anything. It wasn't an open discussion, he had made his decision.

That wasn't good enough for me.

So I stood up in front of the president of our school and pleaded with him to reverse. I felt like a piece of me was leaving my body to see my beloved institution be chipped away of this honor that we had all fought so hard to keep.

But it wasn't enough. He went PC or whatever and now it looks like - yes - 'light cheating' is ok in some cases.

So yes, I care.

Oh yeah - GPA with the 23hrs that semester? 4.0/4.0. Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that on the screen in some hostel in December in Buenos Aires. Was so tired, went straight to Mar del Plata and got 3rd degree burns after passing out there the next day, all day. Was so tired...

Then, I met that chick from LA and we went to Uruguay...

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 4
Dec 7, 2018

+1 for the interesting story, although I still disagree with you.

I understand where you're coming from and that your core values have guided/shaped your perspective and life choices. I'm sure your values were shaped through your upbringing, environment, or even self-realization.

That being said, your opinion on the matter is still on one end of the extreme spectrum. If we were to draw a line, at one end would be the opinion that cheating is morally sound, and on the opposite end of the spectrum would be that 1 cheating (no matter to what extent for form) should be punishable by expulsion.

Due to your views being an extreme view, I think most people, even students, faculty members, universities, disagree with your viewpoint.

Humans are not perfect and make mistakes. People deserve second chances. Good actions outweigh the bad.

Giving a university the ability to expel a student for cheating on a HW assignment, permanently blacklist him from other universities for an honor code violation, ruin his/her future career, ruin the future of his/her children, and his/her family, is plain stupid.

That's basically giving too much power to institutions that themselves are far from perfect.

    • 3
Dec 7, 2018

Should universities be shut down when they fail to provide protection to girls on campus? When they fail to hire trained/qualified faculty members? Should universities be shut down when harassment happens on campus? When they accept donations from morally corrupt people?

If the institution itself is not perfect and above moral complications, then it should not pass absolute judgement on students.

Dec 7, 2018
consultant120:

That being said, your opinion on the matter is still on one end of the extreme spectrum.

Yes.

And with that being said both sides of the spectrum will ultimately end up influencing each other. Public opinion matters.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 7, 2018

^ when I was checking my grades at that hostel this dude I was talking to earlier walked by (he was like late 30s) - he was like 4.0 - that's good.

He was like "I work in finance" - I was like oh really (skeptical) you do? He was like yeah at Bear in NYC. I was like oh ok - kind of surprised. Then he said:

"interview question for you - how do you spell "Bear Stearns"? I was like umm... and spelled it out ... ... 's t e a r n s' etc. I thought there was going to be a bar joke at the end. There was no bar joke at the end. Then he was like "'aw some people actually miss that." lol what?

His friend worked for JPM and was headed down to Chile on an Antarctica trip. He was next to me in this hostel in our room. He said he worked at JPM all braggy initially so I acted like I'd never heard of that place. I'm sure he'd be the guy saying he worked in "high finance" - maybe with some Grey Poupon or something.

lol. I kept fucking with him about JPM and he would get so pissed. I acted like I hadn't heard of it - haha and was making up shit like -

"oh so you work at JT Merlin or something JJ.. what was it called?" "So you're like a bank teller or something? That's really cool, man."

He'd be on his blackberry on the bottom bunk of this hostel in Argentina - and I'd be like you get another email from that JT Merlin place? rofl - I think he was a VP or something.

< https://media.tenor.com/images/851c1bd7bb20791645b852263f7d05df/tenor.gif

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Dec 7, 2018
Isaiah_53_5:

^ when I was checking my grades at that hostel this dude I was talking to earlier walked by (he was like late 30s) - he was like 4.0 - that's good.

He was like "I work in finance" - I was like oh really (skeptical) you do? He was like yeah at Bear in NYC. I was like oh ok - kind of surprised. Then he said:

"interview question for you - how do you spell "Bear Stearns"? I was like umm... and spelled it out ... ... 's t e a r n s' etc. I thought there was going to be a bar joke at the end. There was no bar joke at the end. Then he was like "'aw some people actually miss that." lol what?

His friend worked for JPM and was headed down to Chile on an Antarctica trip. He was next to me in this hostel in our room. He said he worked at JPM all braggy initially so I acted like I'd never heard of that place. I'm sure he'd be the guy saying he worked in "high finance" - maybe with some Grey Poupon or something.

lol. I kept fucking with him about JPM and he would get so pissed. I acted like I hadn't heard of it - haha and was making up shit like -

"oh so you work at JT Merlin or something JJ.. what was it called?" "So you're like a bank teller or something? That's really cool, man."

He'd be on his blackberry on the bottom bunk of this hostel in Argentina - and I'd be like you get another email from that JT Merlin place? rofl - I think he was a VP or something.

< https://media.tenor.com/images/851c1bd7bb20791645b852263f7d05df/tenor.gif

I'm with my man Isaiah on this. Our financial service industry is a total joke as it is assumed that the market is a rigged casino.

Insider trading is rampant and only the 'really bad' insider trading is sought out and punished. There's no integrity, no honor, and no moral code despite what is published in the dusty employee handbook.

There needs to be a 1 strike policy. Otherwise you get firms like SAC and Galleon Group...
I'm shocked Steven is not in prison, but managing Point72. Anyone want to bet they show up in the papers within the next decade for insider trading?

I disliked the movie Wolf of Wall Street for the most part, but applauded the opening scene where Matthew McConaughey explains the how the role of a broker is to get the clients money out of their pocket into your pocket. The one truth of the whole movie. Having family members who were swindled by Jordan Belfort, whom is not making court mandated restitution somehow, I wouldn't bother to hit my brakes should I see that fool crossing 8th Ave.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018

I cut into that JPM dude hard that weekend. I didn't really know how much though until the second time I left Buenos Aires that winter.

I arrived at that hostel and there was this little clique or something and there were like 3 guys trying to land this 39 year old chick that was pretty hot that he was trying to mack or something. It was him, the Bear dude, the hostel owner and some creepsters. I really had no idea of any of this. So one night he was all talking her up and I was bagging on him about it like nah, she's not that hot (she was pretty hot) ... I only saw her briefly where we were staying (it was the same place), but then at the club just went to make out with her and then she said we should drink Champagne and go to Uruguay or something, which seemed like a pretty good idea at the time.

I still had to leave a lot of my bags at this hostel though and just paid for my spot the whole week I was gone (I had a flight to Miami out of Buenos Aires after Uruguay). When I was leaving, I had no idea that the hostel owner was pissed at me for 'getting' this chick and he cut the lock on my bag locker and threw my bags into some supply room (even though I paid him for the locker and bed for a week). I had to rummage in the back of the building to find my shit and then finally caught my flight back to Miami to go scuba diving in the Carribean.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Dec 10, 2018

the scary thing is i have worked an an investment banker for 30 years and every time we prepare a prospectus we go to edgar and find the prospectus for the last comp company to go public and we copy it. Every deal i have ever worked on Syndicate / Capital Markets is overly optimistic (some may even use the word "lie") to describe the level of demand.

Btw, i would hire a kid who cheated on a test and learned from his mistake. I would not hire someone who takes pride in taking away a kids $120K scholarship or setting up roadblocks to have a fresh start. Honor is important. But in the long run, compassion is a more important trait. Honorable, honest people make mistakes. Those with authoritarian complex's are terrible to work with or for.

Dec 10, 2018
lbkap:

the scary thing is i have worked an an investment banker for 30 years and every time we prepare a prospectus we go to edgar and find the prospectus for the last comp company to go public and we copy it.

Business and academics have different rules. I encountered the same thing when I started working in the corporate world.

lbkap:

Btw, i would hire a kid who cheated on a test and learned from his mistake. I would not hire someone who takes pride in taking away a kids $120K scholarship or setting up roadblocks to have a fresh start. Honor is important. But in the long run, compassion is a more important trait. Honorable, honest people make mistakes. Those with authoritarian complex's are terrible to work with or for.

Somehow you think people with honor are authoritarian?

lbkap:

Honor is important. But in the long run, compassion is a more important trait.

Without honor, there is no compassion.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Dec 10, 2018

one thing confused on your story about the guy sending an nude email of his ex, why is SHE the one get punished???

Dec 10, 2018
arianicathe.one:

one thing confused on your story about the guy sending an nude email of his ex, why is SHE the one get punished???

That was the defense's excuse for her plagiarizing. That she was stressed so wasn't thinking right - ie out of character when the HV was committed.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 4, 2018

This is like poetic justice. Cheater pays for someone to do their work. That someone cheats the cheater by providing garbage googled work. Cheater, not knowing the difference, hands it in.

Cheater got cheated.
School expelled a future felon.
Respect.

    • 4
Dec 5, 2018
WolfofWSO:

This is like poetic justice. Cheater pays for someone to do their work. That someone cheats the cheater by providing garbage googled work. Cheater, not knowing the difference, hands it in.

Cheater got cheated.
School expelled a future felon.
Respect.

It's like the drug buyer who gets robbed by the drug dealer. Can't ask for better justice.

Dec 4, 2018

You're fucked

    • 1
    • 1
Dec 4, 2018

I still have not heard from the academic integrity. I may have 2 options at the moment.
The first one, is to wait till the academic integrity contact me
Or I can try to persuade the teacher to punish me in a different way (such a give me extra work + a 0 for that HW)?

Dec 4, 2018

No, the only option available to you is the one you're not grasping. You say that you own your mistake but the comments after that are "how can I defend myself?" and "how can I get some punishment other than the one mandated by ethics/honor/integrity?"

It's not a matter of "taking risk" by hiring someone else. You broke what I'm sure your university's honor code is. You're sick over this only because you got caught and might have to face really tough punishment - not because of what you did.

    • 10
Dec 4, 2018

Exactly, throw yourself at the mercy of the court.

Going forward, work hard and do your work. If you're going through hell, keep going. Complaining about hours as a student is rich, are you even allowed to work in the US or do you study full time? When you are working on the job you will find yourself so much busier. Time to learn some life lessons.

Dec 5, 2018
MidasMulligan:

No, the only option available to you is the one you're not grasping. You say that you own your mistake but the comments after that are "how can I defend myself?" and "how can I get some punishment other than the one mandated by ethics/honor/integrity?"

It's not a matter of "taking risk" by hiring someone else. You broke what I'm sure your university's honor code is. You're sick over this only because you got caught and might have to face really tough punishment - not because of what you did.

Iyiyiyiyi. At UIUC there was no honor code; just an academic honesty policy that bars plagiarism like at just about every school. That is my assumption here.

What I will say is that this kid got lucky. The alleged facts and circumstances aren't as bad as the actual facts and circumstances-- in industry it's one thing to get caught borrowing code from GitHub or Stacktrace.com (doesn't everybody?); it's quite another to farm out homework assignments to freelancer.com.

In private, for the true situation, I'm gonna come down on this kid like a ton of bricks. Farming out homework for others to do isn't cheating on an exam, but it's just as black-and-white.

For the public allegations, for googling and copying the solution from GitHub or Stacktrace without attribution, pishposh. Doesn't every programmer in industry do this? If you want to work at IBM, unless it's for a real Aspergey guy (probably a PhD), or there's some crazy honor code involved that everyone else at your school follows (IE this happened at UVA or Princeton), plagiarizing Stacktrace or GitHub for a homework assignment is going to get you 1000 lashes with a wet noodle. It's like being the social chair of a fraternity and getting busted for underage drinking your sophomore year.

Keep your head down, quietly check the back of the speeding ticket for 60 in a 45, and just be glad they haven't charged you with the high speed car chase you're guilty of.

Be glad that you got caught in college, and got accused of less than what you actually did. If this had happened to you as an adult, you'd get fired at a minimum, possibly also sued by your former employer for civil fraud depending on how big an example their IT security department wanted to make of you, which would make your career situation a lot more challenging.

And, since you're the kind of guy who gets caught at this stuff, don't make this mistake again.

    • 4
Dec 7, 2018
IlliniProgrammer:

It's like being the social chair of a fraternity and getting busted for underage drinking your sophomore year.

This is the most UIUC example I could possibly think of

    • 1
Dec 7, 2018

LOL +1.

(For the record, however, the CS majors didn't have time to drink.)

Dec 5, 2018
French35:

I still have not heard from the academic integrity. I may have 2 options at the moment.
The first one, is to wait till the academic integrity contact me
Or I can try to persuade the teacher to punish me in a different way (such a give me extra work + a 0 for that HW)?

I think you should leave our country.

    • 6
Dec 5, 2018

Unless it was a closed-book take-home exam where the prof trusted everyone to follow the rules, I'm not pissed. At least OP is fessing up privately.

Let me give OP the same advice every lawyer gives their clients:

1.) Don't talk to anyone.
2.) Sit tight. Waiting is painful, but just STFU.

OP may have a better read, but prof probably doesn't want to deal with this. She has better things to do than deal with some pissant undergrad who she caught cheating. This is academic integrity's problem, and she doesn't want to think about this anymore.

    • 1
Dec 5, 2018

I won't give you some bullshit it's your fault deal with it advice. You cheated, so did I in undergrad, big deal nobody cares. What I would do is make sure it doesn't get sent to the honor council/dean of students. If you haven't fucked up before this hopefully should not be too big of a deal. If you are going to cheat in the future, be more discreet and do it only for subjective assignments.

Ty

    • 2
Dec 5, 2018

No; don't cheat.

I will say that there is a difference between more forgivable gray areas and clear black-and-white cheating. I was one of those students who'd hang out in the lightly-shaded gray areas-- homework study sessions and going as far as whiteboarding stuff, but I'd take a C or even an F before I cheated on an exam or broke a clear honor code. There were kids who knew they could easily get away with cheating on a take-home exam that specified no collaboration (something that was pretty clearly black and white); that was never me.

Unless this is UVA or Princeton and there is a clear honor code that every student follows, OP is accused of more of a gray area, at least as far as industry sees it. (To be sure, what he actually did was pretty black and white). Normally I'd fight it, but there's too much risk. Just take responsibility and plead guilty.

    • 1
Dec 5, 2018
French35:

I own my mistake.

No, you don't. You're one big pile of excuses. Lying to your teacher is bad enough. Don't start lying to yourself now too.

Most Helpful
Dec 5, 2018

piling on what everyone else is saying. indiscretions are inevitable in life. maybe you get a little too friendly with your girlfriend's sister at a party, maybe you fuck up a pending deal by leaking it, maybe you take a shortcut that's marginally legal. those will often get you just first order penalties. what fucks you in the arse forever is LYING.

clinton didn't get impeached because he got a hummer from a secretary, nixon didn't resign because of watergate, those things happened because of the cover up. if you come clean, they can't get you for the cover up. if I were you, I would be completely transparent, direct, and ask for forgiveness.

"I know I screwed up, I don't expect you to forget what happened, but I wanted to explain myself so you know I'm not hiding anything. I've been overwhelmed this semester because of [list a couple of reasons) and I've clearly not been managing my time well. when it came time to do this assignment, I was having a lot of difficulty doing it and started searching around the internet for solutions. In a moment of weakness, I did what I did. it was wrong, it was stupid, and it was unethical. I hope you see this as a mistake that won't be repeated. and again, while I can't expect you to forget, I would hope you give me a second chance. I'll gladly take the punishment of a 0 and retake the class or do whatever else the honor board requires."

    • 26
Dec 5, 2018

Look at that. An actual solution.

    • 1
Dec 5, 2018
thebrofessor:

piling on what everyone else is saying. indiscretions are inevitable in life. maybe you get a little too friendly with your girlfriend's sister at a party, maybe you fuck up a pending deal by leaking it, maybe you take a shortcut that's marginally legal. those will often get you just first order penalties. what fucks you in the arse forever is LYING.

clinton didn't get impeached because he got a hummer from a secretary, nixon didn't resign because of watergate, those things happened because of the cover up. if you come clean, they can't get you for the cover up. if I were you, I would be completely transparent, direct, and ask for forgiveness.

"I know I screwed up, I don't expect you to forget what happened, but I wanted to explain myself so you know I'm not hiding anything. I've been overwhelmed this semester because of [list a couple of reasons) and I've clearly not been managing my time well. when it came time to do this assignment, I was having a lot of difficulty doing it and started searching around the internet for solutions. In a moment of weakness, I did what I did. it was wrong, it was stupid, and it was unethical. I hope you see this as a mistake that won't be repeated. and again, while I can't expect you to forget, I would hope you give me a second chance. I'll gladly take the punishment of a 0 and retake the class or do whatever else the honor board requires."

"Sorry it's been so difficult for you this semester. If you would've spoke up, we could have helped you. Thanks for your transparency, but we have no choice but to terminate your admission. We wish you best."

    • 3
Dec 5, 2018

if that happens, you move on and try to pick up the pieces.

OP, this is life, there's no "reset" button, I sincerely hope you man up, accept responsibility, and become a better person as a result, everyone deserves a second chance (but not a third).

    • 1
    • 1
Dec 5, 2018

The OP owns 6 acres in the south of France. Maybe he can do something with the land.

Dec 5, 2018
iBankedUp:

"Sorry it's been so difficult for you this semester. If you would've spoke up, we could have helped you. Thanks for your transparency, but we have no choice but to terminate your admission. We wish you best."

This is what it pretty much may be. The academic integrity board could just be the entity that gives the judgment rather than weighing any last pleas for mercy.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018
thebrofessor:

piling on what everyone else is saying. indiscretions are inevitable in life. maybe you get a little too friendly with your girlfriend's sister at a party, maybe you fuck up a pending deal by leaking it, maybe you take a shortcut that's marginally legal. those will often get you just first order penalties. what fucks you in the arse forever is LYING.

This is key.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 5, 2018

Jesus can we please offer this guy some solutions? Owning up, feeling bad, blah blah comes AFTER you deal with getting the best possible decision you can out of the academic integrity group. Worst case is getting kicked out so you might as well do everything you can to avoid otherwise.

In the perspective of the academic integrity group, cheating on homework is likely on the lower end of severity in the realm of cases they deal with. The un-disputable fact is that you cheated on ONE homework assignment. The story you have to construct is that this is an exceptional case of desperation from an otherwise honest, hardworking student who has tried all other avenues to remedy the situation.

If you have any records of going to tutors or the TA office prior to the incident, collect them and have them ready so you can prove you've made reasonable efforts to learn the material via honest channels. If you have a good relationship with tutors, TA's, or other professors who can vouch for you and say you are honest, hardworking, and very much redeemable from this situation, ask them to write an email or contact the integrity office. Also, present a plan of rehabilitation and you need to seem GENUINE on this. IDK what kind of plan that would entail but if there are steps of improvement with accountability involved, it helps your case.

Hang in there. There are FAR WORSE cases of bad actors who have been able to redeem themselves through careful planning and clever storytelling. Know your audience, have a plan, act as genuine as possible. Good luck :)

Oh yeah, and obviously act as if you feel really bad about it and own up to the mistake. It helps if you really believe it but if not, practice your guilty face in the mirror a few times.

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Dec 5, 2018

Do not defend yourself. Your only strategy is to be contrite as possible.

If you are going to play risky games, play them well.

Dec 5, 2018

People like you is why Trump won.

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Dec 5, 2018

But... this guy acts in the same way that Trump does when it comes to business...

Dec 5, 2018

People like this guy rperesent 99% of college students. University's report student disciplinary figures every semester.

Dec 5, 2018

Everyone is so high and mighty on the internet lol. Let's be honest, we've all cheated at some point in our academic lives. What matters is whether it's habitual, then there's a problem that WILL catch up to you.

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Dec 5, 2018

I have a feeling that no one would piss on you if you were on fire.

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Dec 5, 2018

My mommy would, and my daddy did (but he set the fire in the first place) -_('<')_/- Consequences after being caught cheating

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Dec 5, 2018

I know you're probably trolling, but seriously bro?

also, WSO, let's not report this guy. do not flag his post. I want the forum to know that pieces of shit like this are out in the wild, and I want his comment to stay here forever in hopes that he reads it later and repents (something that would actually be christian, unlike your bigoted comments)

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Dec 5, 2018
thebrofessor:

I know you're probably trolling, but seriously bro? this ain't KKKoasis.

also, WSO, let's not report this guy. do not flag his post. I want the forum to know that pieces of shit like this are out in the wild, and I want his comment to stay here forever in hopes that he reads it later and repents (something that would actually be christian, unlike your bigoted comments)

x2

Fuck off back to InfoWars skinhead trash.

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Dec 5, 2018

:C No Bully - I am Jewish :'C

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Dec 5, 2018

Hello

Just would like you to open your mind a little bit. I know you are a bit of a bigot but we are going to play open-mindedness session here for a second, so I just want to ask you to consider the fact that there were 5 Sb's on that comment as opposed to 9 MSs when the comment was removed. (In other words a positive 6 Sb's according to the incentive system on WSO, which is designed to encourage intelligent conversation)

No this is not KKKOasis, but don't think for a second that punishing migrants who cheat the system is an unpopular opinion. And I agree with you, not for my sake but for everyone's.
This post should have stayed up. It is clear immigration in America is a topic many people want to discuss. Other people want to pretend like they are good people for having the 'right' opinion (that would be you.) Even the ZIOshills for unlimited immigration are reversing their tone. From Hillary to Leaders across the UN the elite are reversing their policy. Despite censorship, they know We the People have had enough.

Also, the comment was only shoah'ed due to racist/antisemitic mods peysah-cuting me bee cause I am Jewish :C (oy vey!!!!)

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Dec 5, 2018
TheStory:

a bunch of trolly bs

TheBrofessor is probably one of the most positive contributors on WSO. This is a case where I think everyone agrees on the facts about OP's situation but we disagree on the law.

On the public allegations, almost every programmer in industry has at some point in their careers copied and pasted stuff from Stacktrace.com or other stuff they've googled. A lot of them are even proud to own that. Why reinvent the wheel? They are going to regard the university's handling of this whole situation as fairly aspergery.

On the private disclosures, OP completely fucked up, but nobody is accusing him of that, yet.

As for you, I disagree with TheBrofessor, but I'd side with him before I'd side with you. He and I both hire kids from WSO; we know how we'd see this situation in 2-3 years. All you have to offer is trolling, and rather poor trolling at that.

This kid is going to be ok, provided the actual truth doesn't come out.

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Dec 5, 2018

Children, Welcome to Shill and gaslight 101. Lesson 1 is how to spot a logical fallacy.

See if you can identify each of the 12 used in the paragraphs above.

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Dec 5, 2018
TheStory:

Children, Welcome to Shill and gaslight 101. Lesson 1 is how to spot a logical fallacy.

See if you can identify each of the 12 used in the paragraphs above.

Ok, Socrates. Just dont corrupt the youth.

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Dec 5, 2018

want to succ my hemloch or my boipucc?

Dec 5, 2018

I'll settle for parodying you for walking on air and contemplating the sun at The Thinkery.

Dude I know you think you know what's right, and that you think everyone else is HILARIOUSLY wrong.

But the guy you started trolling, unlike an obnoxious troll like me, is generally an ordinary fellow who normally tries to do the right thing. And that's not a very fun mark for a troll.

There's no point in trolling unless you have a point to make, and in this case, it's better to just be direct than to play Socrates. Do you have a point to make in this conversation, about whether and to what degree copying from Stacktrace or GitHub constitutes plagiarism in programming?

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Dec 6, 2018

Yes. My point was removed.

This immigrant should go back where he came from, and thank his pagan god we didn't decide to lynch him first.

Dec 6, 2018

In all seriousness, OP is from France. He doesn't worship a pagan god. He is also smarter and more cultured than Americans except for the fact that he smokes 3 packs of cigarettes a day, doesn't shower, and uses a reusable toilet tissue.

Dec 6, 2018

Again, why not just tell the immigrant that if he can't follow the rules, he should get the fuck out of the country? That's just enough to trigger a bunch of liberals without making it an actual race issue.

Also it was Charles Martel who won the Battle of Tours.

Your trolling is weak sauce, bro. I rate it a 2.5/10.

Dec 6, 2018

I am not really trolling at this point. I make it a racial issue because it is a racial issue. Battle of Vienna was won by the Winged Hussars / Polish-Lithuanian King 900 years later. Most French today have African mud in their veins, if not being straight up 'Syrian Refuggees' (Read: Niggerians)

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Dec 5, 2018

Wow, I just visited your profile, and realized how much you like to edit your posts. This isn't about cheating on homework. This is about the fact that you try to convince people you're a bigot (actually maybe you are one), then edit your posts later to make it about something else.

Look:

It's one thing to say that the fact that African Americans have trouble getting into college doesn't mean the college admissions process is biased.

It's one thing to say that liberalism has gone overboard.

It's another thing to say to "Take your cheating, thieving, lying, dirty brown ass back to whatever land you came from" to some dude who's clearly French. (Which can be confirmed by hovering over the posts in your post history on your profile)

Hey everyone. Visit TheStory's profile to see what he originally wrote for his posts. What an asshole!

One last thing. This post will get taken down if you delete or edit all of your posts in this thread and remove all of your trolling against TheBrofessor. Unlike you, I'm not an asshole.

Have a good one, and Merry Christmas!!!! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

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Dec 6, 2018

Pretty sure I said yellow, not brown. But either way works. Yellow is just better because it also means hes a pussy.

Dec 6, 2018

But no bully, I'm Jewish :'C

Dec 9, 2018

You just spewed all that and you're Jewish?

Man you're gonna be in for a bad time should you find a group of like minded individuals to hang out with in the real world...

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Dec 10, 2018

This is how all of us are, so I have plenty of like-minded people to discuss these things with. We just can't speak it out loud in public because our own people will reject us if we do and the goyim will learn to hate us as well.

After that its just a short trip to the holo-coaster (Oy vey!)

Dec 6, 2018

Also, I am a racist, not a bigot. If you weren't bigot you would probably be a racist too. I don't think I edit my posts in order to subvert (even though I am Jewish), but I may edit them to improve clarity?

Dec 10, 2018

How come you are such a good person with good opinions? Did you get all A's in your liberal arts degree? Can I have good opinions too?

Rereading this I noticed why you are confused. I didn't edit anything. Mods removed them. Looks to me like you are the one shilling/being dishonest (Which is a surprise given that I am the Jew here, not you). I stand by everything I say, including this:

Gas the Goyim. Make Gentiles where big yellow crosses!

Dec 5, 2018
TheStory:

Hello thebrofaggot.

I see what you did there, v clever and original.

+1 SB

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Dec 5, 2018

smile

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Dec 5, 2018

If this is your first (caught) offense, I doubt you'll get expelled. Suspended? Maybe. But I'd be very surprised if they gave you the boot. Own up to it and ask what you can do to prove yourself. Most importantly, just stop cheating. Even if you don't get caught, you're increasingly becoming a shittier person at every cheat iteration. Don't be a weasel.

If this is not your first offense then I have no sympathy.

Good luck and move on. Dusting yourself off after getting down in the dirt is a crucial part of life. I hope you become a better/more productive person as a result of this.

Dec 5, 2018

Look, you can't hire people to do your homework for you. I take a pretty lenient view on homework collaboration, but you have to submit your own solution.

Also are you sure this was homework or was it a take-home exam? Was it open-book? Cheating on a closed-book exam sounds more serious.

There would be some ways to defend yourself or at least mitigate this if you had just found and copied it off of GitHub, but there's too much risk when you hired someone else to do it for you. This is like getting a 15 mph over speeding ticket half an hour after you got away from a high speed chase. Just check the box on the back of the speeding ticket and mail the check in.

I say just smile, plead guilty or whatever and eat it-- and move on with your life. It's a frigging homework assignment. At least it wasn't an exam. This won't destroy your life and it will really irritate the people who want you to suffer for it. (If you get caught cheating on an exam, or in some incredibly clear black-and-white area as an interviewer, I don't want to work with you.)

Consider yourself lucky. (1) copying from GitHub on a homework isn't as bad as hiring someone else to do your homework (2) you're a kid (3) you didn't get caught selling drugs, which is what a lot of college kids get caught doing (4) academics aren't as ruthless as corporations, FINRA, or the SEC.

If you can get caught doing stuff like this, you will get caught again. The US takes cheating a lot more seriously than most countries besides maybe Northern Europe. So don't do it.

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Dec 5, 2018

Tell them it was not you but the freelancer who copied from Por..I mean Github

Should solve everything

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Dec 5, 2018

Exactly. There's too much risk. Just eat it and treat this as a nice plea bargain.

Now, as the resident forum troll, there is part of me that's pissed off by how the prof handled this whole situation if all she did was find your solution on Github. As someone from industry, people routinely google and copy and paste public stuff from Stacktrace and open-source projects all the time. The really smart ones just import the libraries. It's more maintainable, and you get a lot more credit for reusing code than you do than building stuff from scratch.

If you ask a coding question for a homework problem and the answer is easily available online (probably because you took the question from an open source dev), it's not right to run around calling it plagiarism, unless you want people to start asking where you got the original question/problem from.

But... if I were a prof, and I knew you were farming out your homework assignments, but also that the answer was copied from GitHub, this is how I'd handle the situation, do you a favor and kinda sorta bail you out. (And to be sure, there are some ways to figure this stuff out). There's too much risk to fighting it, and in this case a lot more downside than upside.

Nobody from industry is going to string up a college kid for plagiarizing the answer to a homework assignment from an open-source project. On the other hand, the prof is technically right from the perspective of academia, and you probably deserve to get called out for this on some level.

Personally, I'd smile, say thank you, and move on. (And always kinda wonder how she caught you-- whether it was plagiarism detection software or whether she got tipped off by someone from freelancer.com. If it was freelancer.com, she did you a huge favor. )

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Dec 5, 2018

Admit to it. Trust me. If u battle, the integrity office will burry you. They want to see if you're sorry and u won't don't again. If you act like a typical defensive snowflake that "knows his rights" and attempt to defend with a lawyer or personal friend of family with power/money they will have no problem kicking you out, not refunding your money and finding another exchange student to collect money from. Millions of kids waiting for a chance to have like you do. Don't fuck it up

Dec 5, 2018

lol you took the risk and fucked up, just hope you don't get kicked out.

for some reason all the kids at my college who were exchange students cheated. the saudis were the worst followed by the chinese.

back to the rice patties

Dec 5, 2018

Maybe you should go back to France and farm the 6 acres of land you inherited.

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/what-should...
I think culturally, foreigners don't understand how seriously plagiarism/cheating is taken in the US higher education system. Conversely, I think Americans don't understand how lightly cheating is taken in other countries.

Dec 5, 2018
Gibbs:

I think culturally, foreigners don't understand how seriously plagiarism/cheating is taken in the US higher education system. Conversely, I think Americans don't understand how lightly cheating is taken in other countries.

And then everyone abroad wonders why people want to invest and keep their intellectual property here, or at least in Protestant Europe.

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Dec 6, 2018
IlliniProgrammer:
Gibbs:

I think culturally, foreigners don't understand how seriously plagiarism/cheating is taken in the US higher education system. Conversely, I think Americans don't understand how lightly cheating is taken in other countries.

And then everyone abroad wonders why people want to invest and keep their intellectual property here, or at least in Protestant Europe.

I know what you mean and agree with you. But Bavaria is mostly Catholic.

Dec 6, 2018

Go with ''I'm a moron, I should have never done that, I will take whatever punishment you decide to inflict on me''.

Dec 6, 2018

But aren't you the original author of the code on Git Hub? Strange that they would accuse you of plagiarizing your own work...

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Dec 9, 2018

Are you a gillet jaune OP? "US academic system pushed me too hard..."

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Dec 9, 2018

My advice is to be a man, and be honest about it. Tell them you've learned your lesson, and will do whatever it takes/face any punishment to stay in the program, and improve your performance. It's a lot better to be straight as opposed to cry how you were overwhelmed by the rigor and effed by the consultant. It's school, you're there to learn.

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Dec 9, 2018

My university had this five-page "honor code" they (allegedly) made us read every term, outlining what was defined as violation of academic integrity. A group of guys in my class got busted for forging hours and signatures on a volunteering slip, and actually got off after making a huge case that the fineprint never said anything about forgery (unbelievable). So have a look at your school's "academic integrity" booklet and see if you can style the situation into a smart-ass loophole. Remember, to succeed in life it's more important to be "smart", not intelligent.

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Dec 9, 2018
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Dec 10, 2018
Dec 9, 2018
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Dec 9, 2018
Dec 10, 2018

Corp. Fin. Analyst currently working two finance jobs (and a teaching gig and trying to save my music production solo career). I love avocado's. And yes Cape Town is the most beautiful place in the world. Don't believe me, come thru and find out.

Dec 10, 2018

GunningForGroupHead

Dec 10, 2018
Dec 10, 2018

GunningForGroupHead