Alright, so about a month ago I posted on tips on prepping for the S&T internship, with the promise of providing some additional tips on what to do during the internship to maximize your chances of an offer. These are some general tips I would consider the most important, and hopefully other users can chime in with any advice or things they were able to do to convert, because lets face it, as an intern your one and only goal is to get that FT offer.
- STEALTH
If you have followed my advice, chances are you know your shit when it comes to technicals. Now the most important part is not actually having the knowledge, but letting people know you have it without coming across as a complete tool. This is not as hard as it sounds, as you will get tons of opportunities to show yourself (ie. open outcry trading games where you can own noobs by arbing the shit out of them when their prices are out of whack, presentations you will have to do, trade ideas you generate, helping other interns, intern exams etc). The hardest part is waiting for opportunities and not forcing it. Keep in mind though that this isnt black and white, and heavily depends on the desk. On my first rotation the manager told me I should do stuff like send out a daily log of stuff I did each day to her, yet when I tried it on another rotation the manager hated it cuz he thought I was trying to show off, Adapt (see point 3).
Under stealth also falls the idea of being uber competitive. Dont be an asshole to other interns. Noone likes someone who is competitive with their own teammates, no matter how badly you want to show off your killer instinct.
- TALK TO PEOPLE - ALL OF THEM
The worst thing you can do is to sit at your desk all day working and only have contact with a couple people or just your desk. Its a big floor, get out there and meet people. These people know what they are talking about and I guarantee that you will learn more about the business by talking to people then sitting at your desk. If you have projects to do, rather stay later or come in on weekends to get it done, rather than sacrifice time networking. You want as many people to vouch for you as possible, because guess what, at the end all the big MDs sit down together and go through the interns one by one and if noone knows you, then you are probably not getting an offer.
Talking to people is also a great way to see whats happening in the market. One of the biggest hinderances for interns is if they get a Bloomberg, because they get attached and it becomes too easy to follow the markets on the screen, instead of talking to people. This also connects with point number 1, the more people you talk to, the more opportunities you will get.
One piece of advice on going up to people. Chances are they will be busy most of the time. The best strategy I found was to plan a day ahead of time. Therefore on Monday I would go to four different people, and each one I would say if there is any time they are least busy and I could come sit with them for a bit, then you agree upon a specific time. This way you have almost like appointments for each day and its much more specific foir the people as well. It also shows you are considering their workload.
- READ THE SITUATION
This relates to point number 1, but needs to be talked about in a general sense. This is rule number 1 of survival as an intern. Make sure to read the situation before you act. Not all people are the same, and not all desks are the same. Just because you didnt have to go get lunch for one desk, doesnt mean you arent responsible for food on another desk.
4.BECOME A GO TO GUY
I dont mean just for the desk you are working on, but for other interns. If you are really good at VBA or Excel, then you will find that if you open up yourself other interns will come to you for help. Having other interns come to your desk asking for your help/opinion gets noticed, adn sends a strong message. I remember at one point one intern was the VBA guru and anotehr manager actually sent their interns to go ask this intern for help. Thats the kind of recognition you want.
- DO NOT MESS UP LUNCH ORDERS
Trust me. Mess up one and it will set you back a huge amount of progress.
- IF YOU WANT IT, GO GET IT
If you think you would enjopy a particular desk, go up to them and try to get a rotation with them, simple as that. Authentic initiative is always aprreciated.
I probably missed out tons of stuff so if any of you guys have tips or tricks make sure to add them on.
Great post! I will be starting my ST internship this summer and I was wondering what is the right balance between working on your project and shadowing traders? How often should you shadow, for how long, and what time during the day is best?
Thanks!
I'd recommend spending almost all of your time shadowing if you can. The projects are mostly something HR puts together to make it feel like something was accomplished over the 3 months. They can tip people in your favor I suppose, but most of your credibility will be made (or lost) from sitting with us, having conversations, asking intelligent questions, and being extremely reliable.
great stuff. what is open outcry, exactly?
You shout out buy or sell of a certain product. The host will normally say market conditions and you have to either sell or buy or sell a certain quantity. Atleast, that's how we played.
is there anyway to practice these open outcrys/ market making simulations?
I describe one of the games on my site, but honestly all you need is a couple of people and a deck of cards. There are so many ways you can play as long as you have:
-some uncertainty -market makers -a final payoff level where everything is settled -assymetric info
Also get good at quick mental maths, it helps.
I'm surprised nobody has made some sort of basic simulator where people can go and practice making markets or you can just make markets vs the computer
I don't know too many kids going into ST but maybe I can turn this into a drinking game lol
1 is so underrated. Always knew it was important, but wish I could've done better this past year...
From what I've understood, a desk becomes very close to each other. Everyone looks our for one another and the banter between traders is incredible. How true is this and how can an intern fit in?
Also, I've heard lots of suggestions about how interns should behave when socialising with Traders at a bar / club. What do you recommend?
First part is very true. If you don't get along with your desk, it's not going to be a very fun experience, unless you're just making a ton of money or something... but when things aren't going so well those tensions are likely to boil over with conflicting personalities.
Desk banter is a lot of fun, some people participate more than others (me being on the more more side), but having a sense of humor and willing to take a lot of sht is very important. To a certain extent, there is not a whole lot you can do necessarily, but on the same note if you're having to force it to fit in, it's probably not the desk for you.
At a bar/club, just be cool mostly. That sounds really stupid, but don't try to hard nor be a drag. Once again, if you're a good fit with the people on the desk you'll likely have a good time with them.
Banter depends on desk (in my experience the nerdier the desk the less banter). But its just like hanging out with mates, as in less political correctness required.
What about taking days off during your internship? Family events or etc...like a day or two over the course of 10 weeks? is this frowned upon? or is it dependent on how chill your desk is
Unless it's a wedding or funeral I wouldn't really do it.
So for my gig it's 3 rotations through 3 different desks. In terms of strategy, if you get a verbal offer from the first desk and you want to go there, should you go sit with the first desk more during your 2nd and third rotations? If you don't get along with your first desk or second desk, should you try to spend your third rotation in a group that is desperate for interns?
Work hard on each desk, impress everyone.
It's unlikely you would know that until the end. You may have a sense, but nothing set in stone. After all, they probably have 2 more rotations of interns to come through so they don't want to jump the gun.
Be careful about spending too much time away from the desk you are assigned. Definitely go back and visit the desks you like, but it's kind of poor form to ditch your current desk entirely unless you've talked to HR or something.
See this is what was starting to confuse me--I hear all the time about going out and networking with many traders, but I always thought if you were out with other desks all day long, then why would you even be placed onto specific rotations?
By networking do you mean specifically with the various traders on that specific rotation? i.e. if you get onto a flow derivatives desk over the course of the day try to sit with some people on the index vol desk, some people on the single stock vol, etc. for the 3 weeks that you are there(in my case each rotation is 3 weeks)?
YOu will generally find that a lot of time you will have nothing to do on your desk, as in everyone is busy and cant set u anything, so this is the time you go out and network.
Par-100, market making drinking game.
that would be awesome thanks derivstrading!
hey ambition--heres a market making sim if you wanna fuck around a bit
http://live.marketsims.com/TSDemo/
[quote=leveRAGE.]hey ambition--heres a market making sim if you wanna fuck around a bit
http://live.marketsims.com/TSDemo/[/quote]
That is actually a fairly good one to get you thinking about bid ask and moving your spreads, but the only problem in it is that you really want to do it with other people and assymetric info.
The one im gonna make in excel is going to be more geared towards getting students to practice the arbs that will come up in the open outcry game with options but to the best method is to get some people together who are really willing to learn and just play the game.
This is one to play: http://www.leveredhedge.com/articles/on-the-job-articles/how-to-dominat…-trading-game/
there are many other ways so you can get creative. And change it up so that you need to stay on your toes.
I've seen this one before... we actually hosted the trader's trophy at our school but this one isn't comparable to market making simulations done at internships because the spreads are too tight. it's all automated instead of having other ppl give the bid asks and have you hit or lift. The actual trader's trophy was sick because you made markets with other people
Just a quick question guys. What if you are assigned to one desk. I am going to be interning on one desk for the entire summer for my bank. I am also going be to the only intern for my desk (my boss really liked me and decided to hire me on as an intern). Do I still the follow the rules above?
I was about to say exception, but then again you still need to try and get out there and network with people, the more people you get to know, the better you are for the future. In your case you might have less opportunities to do so, but you can simply go to your boss and say if you can spend a little of each day with other people to get exposure/network/get to know people. Chances are he will really like the initiative, if he doesnt then no harm is really done.
very good point about the assymetric info. I think your excel simulation will be extremely helpful. I wish I could access that leveredhedge article for free lol
S&T - How to impress during an internship? (Originally Posted: 02/16/2013)
Hi,
I'll be doing a year-long placement in sales starting in the summer and I was wondering if anyone had any tips (or even links to tips) for me. I've not been told yet whether this will be in Equities or FI but I can express a preference, does anyone have any thoughts on which I should pick and why?
Is there anything I should learn before the internship? I was thinking about basic VBA/macros. Are there any books I should read?
Also, I've not really received that much information about the role. Do you think I'll mostly be fetching coffees and lunch? Not that I have a problem with this.
Thanks!
Ill be doing a post on this later today
How to secure a FT offer as a SA analyst for S&T? (Originally Posted: 02/12/2010)
This may have been covered previously, but since the search feature is gone, and times have changed in the last few years I figure I'll make a post for all us soon to be SA analysts.
For those that have secured a FT position after being a SA (at the same bank), please share:
1) What you did (get in an hour early? leave an hour late? etc) 2) How the decision is made (who did you have to impress) 3) Any advice or tips for incoming SA this summer 4) What are some absolute things you should NOT do
1) Got in before almost everyone (by a few mins, usually), almost always the last to leave unless I was told I wasn't needed. 2) Solely the group head's decision...but if nobody else in the group liked you, you probably wouldn't get an offer. 3) The obvious stuff. Double-check your work, have a positive attitude and don't assume (or act like) you know more than anyone about anything. If you're getting slammed with different projects from different people, let them know you're really busy and ask them what should be prioritized. If people go out for beers, join them. If VPs keep handing you drinks, put them down like a champ. Basically, be a likeable person to be around but be serious about your work and make sure people think that you are. 4) The opposite of everything above.
Standing out at at Internship (Originally Posted: 02/17/2011)
I have 3 short trading internships at RBS, UBS and CS in London. I will be being assessed for a longer summer internship for next year and I was wondering how I can prepare to stand out. What would you recommend? Extensive knowledge of current financial affairs, knowledge of trading techniques, technical knowldge? Will be so grateful for any help!
Edit: Is it true that be an attractive female is very advantageous is terms of securing internships/grad offers on the floor, given the 'laddy' nature? I'm not saying im going to do anything below board (or belt) but might as well make an effort if it helps...
Hahah did you just refer to Spring Weeks as internships?! Here's what to do - show interest and some basic knowledge, network your ass off on the trading floor (after trading hours), don't disturb anyone or get in anyone's way and get their coffee orders right.
The value that you can add will be minimal. Concentrate on being very well liked, enthusiastic and eager to learn. Don't get the hump when you're given menial tasks.
As people mentioned, you just have to balance being eager to learn and not being annoying. You want to be well liked, so go out of your way to meet everyone but don't ask too many questions and ask smart questions.
Swallow...
Hahah. To be honest, it does help a LOT!
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