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Comments (55)

Apr 18, 2021 - 2:10pm

No it's his own shop- very smart and entrepreneurial guy, basically figured out a niche product that he knew extremely well and hence didn't feel the need for a ton of overhead, which is why he was able to earn so much. But like you said, extreme outlier that no one should expect to recreate

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  • NA in IB-M&A
Apr 18, 2021 - 1:13pm

These sorts of threads are stupid. Just pure mental masturbation thinking "oh yes, this could be me one day." The reality of crazy comp example is just what the name implies - they are outliers, and very unlikely to happen. If you want to make real money, be creative and take risks- aka pretty much the opposite of what this site advocates.

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  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
Apr 19, 2021 - 8:57am

These sorts of threads are stupid. Just pure mental masturbation thinking "oh yes, this could be me one day." The reality of crazy comp example is just what the name implies - they are outliers, and very unlikely to happen. If you want to make real money, be creative and take risks- aka pretty much the opposite of what this site advocates.

Masturbation is perfectly healthy and can actually help reduce your risk of developing prostate cancer!

  • Analyst 1 in RE - Comm
Apr 19, 2021 - 1:37pm

Hey man I enjoy a little mental hand job once in a while so politely, fuck off

  • Principal in PE - LBOs
Apr 21, 2021 - 10:20am

Heard from a friend a PE guy in his late 20s bringing in $6m

My college roommate, when he was 32 had a $11mm payday. He developed a crippling pill habit. He had so much money that he rolled up fifty dollar bills and used them to snort ground up hundred dollar bills. The ink from the bills gave him agonizing headaches, which he would self-medicate with Advil. Liver went to shit. Died at the age of 36, but it was one hell of a ride.

Apr 18, 2021 - 7:47pm

In that vein do you know what happened to Nunzio Tartaglia or Gerry Bamberger? It seems like Muller's PDT is an extremely successful continuation of Morgan Stanley's pairs trading / stat arb programme from the 80s.

Apr 19, 2021 - 4:06am

100mm/year over 10 years for a team of quants where the firm gets a larger split of p&l than at a fund?

I would agree the head guy got paid close to 9 figures, probably a little less, in aggregate - but likely works out to just under 10mm/year comp.

However, at funds there are instances of people basically doing this in 1 year.

  • Managing Director in S&T - Other
Apr 18, 2021 - 1:57pm

Stupid thread and waste of time. If we talking pre-tax, know more than handful of people under 35 going to make more than $5mm this year in commodities. Have way crazier stories but ehh lets keep somewhat reach for you since said analyst/PM level.

Comp is really not that hard to figure out...choose a #, find a %, get an AUM, find liquidity = # achieved.

  • Principal in PE - LBOs
Apr 21, 2021 - 10:18am

Stupid thread and waste of time. If we talking pre-tax, know more than handful of people under 35 going to make more than $5mm this year in commodities. Have way crazier stories but ehh lets keep somewhat reach for you since said analyst/PM level.

Comp is really not that hard to figure out...choose a #, find a %, get an AUM, find liquidity = # achieved.

Who are the handful of people you know of making >$5mm in commodities? The 5 co-heads of FICC that GS appointed to increase their diversity/under-represented minorities score?

  • Investment Manager in HF - Other
Apr 18, 2021 - 3:42pm

Agree that in general these posts won't be that useful, but sharing one story, not because the numbers are crazy but because I don't normally see firms give more than actually required. 

So I knew someone who is relatively senior at a HF, the fund had a fine year, and based on their contributions and contract the total comp should have been ~$2.5mm for the year (basically if you took the base + bonus and PnL split). Well this person had also been involved with a bunch of other stuff (client work, fundraising type stuff, etc) that wasn't necessarily captured by the standard agreement. So on bonus day they got an additional ~$3mm if I remember correctly, for ~$5.5mm year. Don't normally see surprises like this to the upside. 

Apr 19, 2021 - 3:37am

Not an anomaly at all.  The classic quote is, "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face"  - very few people can consistently take and consistently dodge punches yet everyone thinks they can going in.

Many get weeded out in periods of stress if they show emotional weakness or volatile trading - it's a huge liability for managers.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Apr 19, 2021 - 7:51am

Before u edited ur post, I remember it said like u know a handful of mid 8 figure earners under the age of 35 (maybe not a handful but like 4 or 5 lol)-- what kinds of funds did these guys work at? Was it just the Tiger Globals, Lone Pines, Vikings, Coatues of the world or also top non tiger shops? Also was this L/S to begin with?

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  • Principal in PE - LBOs
Apr 21, 2021 - 12:19am

I personally know a 27 year old Harvard guy who graduated early and so had almost a decade of experience by his late 20s - far and away best VERIFIED comp datapoint I've seen, but take it with a grain of salt since these examples are the exemption rather than the norm. People on WSO tend to look at a case like this and impute it as a likely outcome. It is not a likely outcome. So with those caveats out of the way... 

He was a wunderkind from a young age, and after skipping a bunch of grades, he tested at a handful of magnet/G&T schools. Think Stuyvesant, etc. Well, he crushed all these exams. Had his pick, and this is at like 12 years old, so a good 2-3 years ahead of his peers. Graduates near top of his class, goes on to Harvard at 16, graduates in 3 yeas and is a 19 year old investment banking analyst at MS. Moves to MF PE, now legally allowed to drink, he decided the HF world is the place to go if you want to be a real hitter with a liquid net worth, not cash poor and unrealized carry rich.

For some reason went to a non-descript single manager fund with like $1-2bn AUM. But must have been legit because after 2 years he left to go to a top tiger cub a la Lone Pine. Here's where a lot of luck came in. He was initially a consumer analyst that began to pick up more consumer-tech/FinTech names. Then transitioned fully to tech, which is obviously where you want to be in the HF and especially the Tiger Cub HF world.

Timing was just right because he had 3 or so years of tech investing at a Tiger Cub under his belt when he was finally experienced and credible enough to have positions of his own (how you get rich in this business) with real wood behind the bat. Leading into 2017 he has a pretty good year, makes ~$5mm.

Then comes 2018, somehow skates through the end of the year carnage relatively unscathed and puts on some monster bets in the end of 2018/beginning of 2019 at the lows. Spring loaded to go bananas. I think you guys can already see where this is going. You may even know the guy I'm talking about. He puts on multiple billions of dollars in net long exposure in stocks that ended up being up 30-50% by year-end. He generated well $1-2bn P&L, over $250-300mm performance fee contribution in a year where the fund also crushed it.

This fucking bad ass walks in on comp day thinking maybe he'll make at least $20-30mm. Obviously super nervous. I mean this is a 27 year old thinking he may be about to join the 8 digit club. Fuck you money by 27 year old standards, or any standards by that matter. When he goes in to get his comp number, his mind is racing, super nervous... he's running through all these scenarios in his mind... what if they fuck him. How's he going to respond? Keep cool, and lawyer up? Keep cool, and quit while giving them the finger? Freak the fuck out. No, wait, thats impossible, he crushed it. They will light him up and it will be glorious. Squirmy wormies in his stomach turn into soon to be euphoric butterflies. He starts imagining all the things he's going to buy. All the haters he's going to flex on. He showed them. Fucking losers, nobodies. He gets a bit ahead of himself on these latter day dreams, ends up getting fully erect. Raging hard on. That's right, a throbbing aching erection right before one of the most important moments of his life. Now this is where things take a turn - the universe works in mysterious ways, and God always has a plan for you if you give Him the glory. Just as he sits down in the chair opposite the founder's desk to get his comp #, he realized he sat on something, the last analyst (purposefully) left a broker swag GS golf ball on the chair, and it happens to lodge directly in between his cheeks. He can't jump up now, he's locked eyes with the founder. He has to commit... he sits down fully, letting the weight of his body press the golf ball into his rectum. The nerves made him sweaty, the butt cheeks are extra slippery. You guessed what comes next... his butt hole completely swallows the golf ball in slow motion, right through his chinos. Between the unplanned hard on and the even more unplanned prostate stimulation from the golf ball planted by this colleague saboteur, he has the "this has never happened to me before" premature ejaculation we all dread in moments like this.  Except its a full on explosion. The force of the geyser rips through his boxers and busts open his chinos and a pile of splooge unfurls onto his founder's desk, covering the founder comp cheat sheet. A few aftershock spurt all over his pants as he flinches and cowers in shame. He knows what's going to come next - obviously, he gets fired on the spot. If you could just ejaculate all over your boss' desk and still keep your job, then everyone would do it. Here's the kicker. Right after it happens, he's mortified, embarrassed, humiliated. Appologizing profusely, he clumsily tries to mop up the piles of splooge off the founders desk and papers. As he's using the blade of his hand to squeegee the seemingly cold dead jelly fish off the desk, he catches a glimpse of his smudged name printed on the paper he's trying to clean off. He was set to make $150mm. The biggest single payday (outside of the founder) in the history of the firm.

27 years old, $150 million dollars. Let that sink in. Yeah, those are the outcomes the real hitters are playing for. You're either out there swinging for the fences, or you're... well, who cares what you're doing if you're not doing that. $150 MILLION DOLLARS!

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Apr 21, 2021 - 11:06am

MVP of this thread, no debate. killing it lmao. But like lowkey the first part is somewhat believable -- 5 sticks at a tiger cub and then 20 in a sick year is realistic. Golf ball part had me weak lol

Apr 22, 2021 - 7:35pm

I laughed so hard reading this I had to step away to take a piss before finishing because of how risky it was getting.

Array

  • VP in S&T - FI
Apr 21, 2021 - 7:25pm

i know the owner of a hedge fund that made 2 billion in 2020....not the fund...he personally took out $2 billion...only made $700 million in 2019.

he's pretty famous....everybody on this board should know his name....not Ken Griffin or Stevie Cohen..but...

Apr 22, 2021 - 10:32am

Thats dope good for that guy and his group head for recognizing his efforts

Go all the way

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Restr
Apr 25, 2021 - 1:06pm

Just posted this in another thread, but I see a lot of BS here about comp so I'm reposting it here for you freshman to see. Here are the "steps". 

1. Grind your ass off in highschool to get to a target & stop jerking off 8 times a day, grind harder in college, get to a top BB/EB/MF PE group, grind even harder and get looks from top HFs. Zero sex life, work 18 hour days minimum, follow the markets for fun, but try to come off as a chill dude for recruiting/interview purposes

2. Become an analyst at a $7bn+ L/S  HF. You know the type, Tiger cubs + top notch non tiger cubs. Tiger Global, Lone Pine, D1, Whale Rock, Eminence, Darsana, Coatue, Viking, Altimeter type shops. This should put you at ~$300-500k base

3. Continue the grind and work the hardest here. If the fund has a monster year, you want to be a hard working analyst who put in the work and contributed to some of the monster year

4. IF you actually perform + fund has sick year + you have been there for 2+ years, you will make $2-3m. Confirmed from many sources, in some cases as high as $5 but that is by no means a proxy for how much you can make working as an analyst at one of these funds. $2-3+m in a really good fund with a phenomenal year is realistic 100%, and you could be 28-29 at this stage. NOW, notice how I said L/S. Credit/distressed guys are stingy as fuck - I know a distressed analyst who put on a trade that made ~200m for the fund (fund was like $7bn AUM), and he only got paid $900k. That's a lot, but it's fair to say he was underpaid and he left for a L/S fund. 

5. Stay at this L/S fund for > 5 years, maybe you're like 32-33 now, maybe you joined when you were 26. Keep pushing and contributing to fund outperformance, and as long as the boss is not racist or discriminatory in some way, you will make PM/Partner where you can reasonably expect to make low 7 figures in a year, and higher/8 figures in blockbuster year. Do this for a few years, maybe catch the next tech wave, put your earnings back in the fund, and you could probably be worth $20-30m by the time you're 37-40, if not higher. Then you go off an start your own fund. 

Now this is the story for maybe 1-3 people out of 100 in this business. Maybe. Incredibly difficult, requires the right fund at the right time + the right boss, self determination/drive, and you actually have to be good at what you do. It's the dream for many, but it's a lot easier said than done. Finito. 

  • Works at 137 Ventures
Apr 26, 2021 - 9:28pm

Hi you mentioned L/S - better chance of making money than in credit. How about MM vs SM for L/S? I notice that MM has stricter risk control so maybe harder to make more money there?

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 26, 2021 - 9:45pm

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  • Intern in IB-M&A
May 2, 2021 - 2:36am

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