D for Dilemma and D for...
Dilemma !
Hello guys, I am in need of some serious advice/street insight that could help me make a reasonable choice/decision.
I am considering a FT MBA at U Delaware with an intended Finance major. I was too late to apply for any of those 'top' schools so I put in MBA apps for 2 universities that were still accepting applications -the other one was out west. I was leaning more towards going in for an MS instead to give myself another shot at an MBA at a later date.
However I've been offered a spot at UDelaware with substantial funding that would definitely be a big financial contribution towards my budget.
Now I am confused as to whether I should accept the offer or not. I am in no way considering a 'Gekko styled' job post MBA but definitely looking for a reasonably good paying job. I do have about 4 years of banking/analyst experience in the middle markets lending area.
Could the more experienced minds on here please shed some light and maybe offer some insights into the pros and cons of doing an MBA at UDel.
My thoughts were:
1.) I have the funding which is an obvious attraction.
2.) The location in Newark is ideal -not quite in NYC and so not that expensive to be a FT student. At an ideal distance from DC, Baltimore, Philly, NJ and NYC.
3.) I am hoping it is still a better name than say a private university in the suburban NYC.
4.) I am hell bent upon going back to university FT for graduate studies this Fall. Hence cannot wait and reapply until next Fall.
5.) Ofcourse Joe Biden is an alumnus -so maybe that'll help.
I am just unsure because I am aware that I wouldn't be able to do another MBA from anywhere better should I join here.
Could you please provide some constructive feedback thoughts about Delaware and its reach out in the job market?
TNA, I realize you are quite a 'go to' person when it comes to such matters. Would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.
Thanks guys
Fellow Monkey
If you are honestly competitive for a Top Tier School next year I think it would be a huge mistake to go to U Delaware. Even if you are not interested in IBD/S&T/PE/HF, the doors that open for you coming out of a top school are immense.
Why exactly are you "hell bent" on going back to school this fall rather than next? If it is unavoidable family or professional exigencies that are forcing your hand that is one thing, but if you just really, really want to go right just now, then you should seriously, seriously reconsider. If you are competitive for a top 20ish school then UofD would be a big mistake. What is it you are hoping a UoD MBA will help you do?
What is the net cost in terms of tuition for Delaware? And what is their placement rate and average salary upon graduation.
I would not spend more than $60K on tuition for an MBA from a state school. Exceptions maybe being Haas, Darden, Ross, and McCombs, and then only lifting the expense by $20K.
Seriously though, if you can get into UofD this year, you can get into UVA next year.
Thanks guys,
I am strongly towards joining the program this fall is as I have been on a career break primarily to pursue a non-corporate/working experience. Ive travelled for a little while, gotten involved with sports and have undertaken some technical courses to upskill my on-the job skills.
There is 1 year in between this Fall and next Fall and I really don't want to extend my career break any longer than what I already have -hence considering this current Fall.
Financially, the cost would be under 40k and i may be able to reduce it further to should I succeed in getting 2nd year funding.
So all in all : 1.) A relatively good public school (i assume) 2.) A quieter town/college experience unlike a commercial centre in say NY or Chicago. 3.)Financial benefit. 4.) Close to financial centers as I previously mentioned.
These reasons were some that I was using to lure myself into this experience.
I dont think I am Ivy League material - but I can make it to top 10-30 programs. But 1 year is hell of a time in life that I really don't want to use to go back to work etc.
Any suggestions about Delaware, the job scene/reputation etc etc. I hear alot about Delaware's corporate presence although major banks seem to have non -front office roles. But perhaps it could still lead to openings in middle market or somewhere around those lines?
Still welcome your thoughts and suggestions (perhaps anything other than waiting for yet another year!!)
According to this....you're better off going to Texas Christian University's MBA program.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools…
Yeah, I would hold off on this plan unless you have a job lined up that requires this MBA. Aim for UVA or McCombs next year.
Thanks Robin - thats comforting !!! But really do rankings matter that much? Surely I wouldn't say that putting aside the rankings would allow Harvard = Delaware, but in practical terms - isn't it really what you learn at university that ultimately provides you access to the workplace opportunities? Ofcourse theres many things in between.
Gee I am trying hard to convince everyone including myself to accept the bone!
Yeah, I'm starting to notice.
I don't see a whole lot of value here at $40K, especially after factoring in living expenses. Also you are giving up the opportunity to get an MBA at a better school. If you go to UVA, you will be able to land a job at an F500 firm; a few UVA MBA grads even wind up in banking.
I don't see the same opportunity out of Delaware. Don't do this. At least not with this mindset. $40K is a lot of money to pay back.
There are other things besides going to a sub-par MBA that you can do in order to end the career break you're talking about - like, ya know, get a job.
Thanks Illini - See that 40k value may reduce should I be able to maintain a certain level of GPA and all that stuff so it may even reduce to half perhaps. The university does have an internship program like other school ofcourse not as robust but from what I hear most major banks have presence in Wilmington, DE where they traditionally had their credit card businesses set up etc. Anyway - Philly has a good financial base and I would assume that an hours drive wouldn't be much for job hunting?.
I am comparing this program with those from Temple University or Hofstra (NYC), Pace (NYC) or RIT (Rochester) and I think Delaware may still have atleast a little more respect than these quoted above given its history etc.
I also have been admitted to an MS Finance program and an MS Accounting program (with flexibility to blend it with finance) although both these programs cost the same as the MBA program and are a year in duration so will be an increased workload stress.
I am also currently waiting on 2 more Masters (not MBA) programs both in the mid-west, just in case I need to give up on this 'prized offer' in the last minute.
You have a job. Be happy. Keep earning money rather than going into debt this year, and go to UVA next year.
I was being sarcastic, but really think about the long-run, that University of Delaware merit will follow you for life. If it means going to a better school with better opportunities in the long run, then its yea its well worth sticking it out for just one more year.
Thank you Robin - I did smell sarcasm in your response.
And Illini - thanks for your efforts too. Maybe i'll rethink about this offer perhaps. As for the MS programs, one of the MS programs is infact at Kelley School of Business just not at their Bloomington campus. But I sense that won't be a huge factor for someone with some field experience like myself. The only thing that comes into play is the money part. I'd be paying almost the same for an MS in Accounting that I would should i join this MBA.
Do you guys think Pace/Hofstra/RIT/Bentley would be a better option than Delaware given their locations. Ofcourse none are any more reputed but their locations might help?
Hofstra says there grads get recruited well enough in the local market averaging 65k (ofcourse alot of it would be due to guys with little or no experience. Pace talks similar. RIT i don't have much data on besides its a 6 hour drive to NYC so not as convenient to get to for an internship etc.
Delaware said they had 65% of their class placed which is ofcourse low but partly because they aren't a major FT campus so many kids are already employed + some FT students are international needing sponsorships which aren't easy to come by in these difficult times.
Ive read reviews about undergrads for Delaware and apart from it coming across as a party central, they seem to have had generally good views about campus recruiting.
UVa seems competitive in a sense that it appears to recruit international students a fair lot to 'diversify' its class and many of them are from India/China with stellar GMAT/GPA with technical backgrounds. I spoke with VCU -Virginia Commonwealth Uni but there careers services weren't able to convince me to join the university.
Perhaps its only sensible to complete a masters for now and try for an MBA at a later date.
No, the most sensible thing to do is avoid taking on student debt, especially as we head back into a recession in the US. If you can get a free master's degree and live for free that year, that's great. Otherwise, don't do it.
UofD has a 65% placement rate for their MBA program. In other words, of people who quit their jobs to go to U of D, 35% wound up not getting even their old jobs back. Think about that.
I think the minimum for you should be UVA FT with in-state tuition. Or you can do a part-time MBA if it would help you advance in your career.
Commodities prices are going down following demand. You typically don't see that in a healthy growing economy. Demand and prices tend to go up as the economy grows and Federal Reserve action- rate hikes- finally causes prices to come back down.
I think what's going on here is that when the velocity of money dropped in 2008, we needed to print all of this money simply to avoid deflation. Now we are seeing all of these assets leave Europe and park themselves in US Dollars and even currency in safe deposit boxes. So that money that's supposed to be out there in the economy changing hands is hiding in bank vaults and bomb shelters instead. So this is further reducing effective money supply.
As more and more cash gets parked out of risk, the fed needs to print more money. Instead, they're just keeping rates low and trying to indirectly print money. As the velocity of money decreases, the effect if the fed does nothing is an interest rate hike.
2008 was a classic Malthusian recession. We ran out of oil ($140/barrel), copper, and a number of other resources and consumers ran out of money trying to pay for everything. Now in 2012, things look different. Commodities prices are coming down. People just don't want to spend money. Keynesianism is a much better explanation of what's happening today, as much as the public hates it. And as more and more money gets stuffed under the mattress and as more acorns get buried out in the woods for the next 2008-style recession, the effective interest rate goes up. People are perfectly happy to save money and stick it in the bank even if interest rates are 0%. So there is nothing the fed can do.
So now we're back to the Keynesian cycle of the federal reserve raising interest rates to cause a recession- only in this case, it's really consumers and investors and the fed has lost control since they can't just print $200 Billion and go out and buy stuff. Commodities prices are falling and the economy is cooling. Once asset prices come down and volatility comes down, investors will take 9% yields over 0% yields in cash, and money will move back into investment and grow the economy.
Bottom line, I am seeing a lot of signs of deflation, which is being driven by fearful investors. This is going to take us into recession, and we will only get out once the fed starts printing money or dividend/earnings yields go up and volatility comes down.
Its good you talk about recession. Although I agree 2008 and the following year or two was tougher for those already in the workforce as well as those in the que for a job and that recent times haven't been fantastic, I do believe that alot of this 'unemployment' is realistically concentrated to unskilled/low skilled workers in certain industries. Ofcourse some sections of financial industry were hard hit and that generally employers have been cautious, but there are two additional perspectives to it. I've known individuals and in some cases those are non-residents (who presumably need visas) that have joined workforce during these tumultuous years + should I join the university, I won't be entering the job market for atleast 1.5-2 years (Say year end 2014 early 2015) And although I have never been an owner of the crystal ball, I believe things may change a fair bit beyond the WH results in Nov 2012. European debt situation would perhaps have resolved for the better. Ofcourse things could go haywire and I'd be crying by a river. But that could happen anyday should an employer decide to downsize -bad economy or not.
As for the student debt - I paid off my undergrad over a few years and I think a 10-20k debt may not be as bad considering that debt is a reality we face everyday. Going to a top 10-20 may only increase the debt higher with no guarantees of landing a job irrespective of the state of the economy.
I guess mine maybe a unique situation in that I am a firm believer of education being a complimentary factor in professional success and the more you delay it the more you delay success in your career. Ofcourse success may never come but thats another story. I am not 18 and I am not 23 so time is a also factor considering that every year that passes by the competition only gets tougher.
Just to reflect back - I am on a career break pursuing opportunities outside of a corporate setup meaning I am no longer in the workforce. And the reason for this break was essentially to reequip myself academically and seek something better.
If you have four years of F500 work experience, a lot of savings, and an MBA from an MBA business schools ">M7 school or a truly brilliant startup idea, you can take a "career break". As it stands right now, it looks like you got laid off to both MBA programs and employers and the larger this gap gets in your resume, the more explaining you will have to do about it for a longer period in your career.
Stop trying to justify these mistakes. Four years ago, I went from being a quant developer in a front office group to back-office IT when my firm was one of the three major banks that capitulated in 2008. I spent the next two years trying to justify staying where I was- that I was loyal, that I was tenacious- while everyone else was leaving. But staying where I was compounded the mistake. The best career move I have made in my life was dropping those justifications and making an internal transfer to being a desk developer.
You took a career break. That was probably a mistake. Don't compound the mistake by getting an MBA that doesn't help you. Unless U of D is going to cover your living expenses and you can't find a job elsewhere, I can't recommend going to some middle-tier state school for a middle-tier graduate business/finance/accounting degree.
Ok Illini - i think I have your point understood. Lets hope that the better sense and good luck prevails. Thanks for sharing your thoughts/experiences
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