Do Deloitte and PwC have Investment Banking Groups?
I'm doing summer leadership programs with Deloitte and PwC and I was wondering if they have M&A groups -- specifically, ones that you can join directly after college. If so, does anyone know what the actual group is called and what salary typically is? Thanks for your help!
The corporate finance departments at the Big 4 essentially offer MM boutique bank advisory services. Corporate Finance teams are licensed bankers who execute from pitch-book to closing on middle-and-upper market M&A deals.
Deloitte Corporate Finance
Deloitte Corporate Finance is pure middle market investment banking. They acquired McColl and Partners around 2014. Deal flow is good but these deals are generally less "sexy".
Deloitte Investment Banking Compensation
Salary will be in the neighborhood of 75k with 10k at signing, there is also 10% bonus. All in compensation is approximately 92k. These figures were proposed by one of our Certified Users.
PwC Investment Banking Compensation
Deal flow at PwC is comparable to other Big 4 firms. First year analysts on the Corporate Finance teams can expect to make around 90k in salary. If you add a bonus at 15% then the all in salary is roughly 105k. The salary information used to calculate the bonus was pulled from a reputable company review website.
Corporate Finance at Big 4 fims
Compensation and deal flow as described by @onemanwolfpack. He is a Certified User who previously worked as an associate in Corporate Finance at a U.S. Big 4 firm
Generally, comp is less than BB and most MMs. Base pay is broadly in line with street, but bonuses are in the 15-35% range. This can vary across the Big 4s and around the world (as the global Big 4 is actually a network of separate firms)
Normal "sweet spot" is deals $25 - 200mm, with occasional deals smaller and larger than that. We try to avoid pitching without a unique angle (i.e. selling to international buyers) cause we'll struggle to compete with a BB (obviously) or a MM with 50 recent tombstones in the industry. Most of our deal flow comes from internal referrals from audit and non-audit clients who have a smaller deal in a size/region where their traditional bankers are unwilling/uncapable to assist.
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Yes, all of the Big 4 have IB services. They generally call them Corporate Finance. Do a quick google search and you will find them.
There was a great Q&A thread not too long ago about Big 4 CF, here's the link: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/the-forgotten-ibd-big-4-corporate…
There is also M&A advisory, which is under the TAS umbrella.
Yes, the IBD groups are called Corporate Finance and M&A. The Transaction Services or Financial Advisory groups are more of assistance on M&A deals for fairness opinions, due diligence, etc.
From what I know the most common route to those groups are to do a few years in audit first and then transfer over. Though that doesn't mean that breaking in straight from undergrad is impossible or not uncommon.
Dealsize can be smaller but if you're in Europe, Big 4 Corp. Fin. is still quite well regarded.
salary is pretty standardized in Big4.. Maybe you make a bit more than audit or other groups but definitely not street-level pay.
some boutiques might even be able to pay more than big4. and yeah deals are really small, it works much better in Europe and Asia where there is not much of a boutique presence.. in the US the boutique market is saturated and so these big4 teams scrap the leftovers and are really small.
they do, but not to be an asshole (someone should point it out tho), the big 4 "IB" arms wont give you buy side opps like BBs, MMs or other strong boutiques. i went through recruitment for some and a lot of analysts told me that they were planning on lateraling to another MM or lower tier BB since the exit opps to buyside are almost non-existent and they were getting paid shit
Agreed.. Do only big 4 if there really is nothing else and you can somehow get yourself into one of these or you want a work life balance when you're 21-22. If not, I rather go to small boutique and try lateraling.. I think even small boutiques still generate PE interest more than big 4 and pay more.
Deloitte's IB arm is called Deloitte Corporate Finance, under Financial Advisory Services. Very active 'bank' but tiny deals. You'll find that some of these Big 4 IB arms actually lead league tables by volume in some countries
Yeah these big4 ib arms focus more on volume with tiny deals. That's why they are consistently on the top 10 league tables for volume
true but as a rising junior/senior/recent grad, you shouldnt really care about league tables
the proxy i went by for deciding between offers was really- 1) exit ops/street view of bank 2) how i fit into office culture/office location 3) do i like the vertical/product group
I know it's been a while. But perhaps those countries you mentioned, south america?
So you guys are saying that a no name Boutique investment bank will provide you with better exit opportunities into a decent MM I-bank or BB compared to Big4 TAS services, Advisory services like valuations etc. ?
Probably warrants mentioning here that Deloitte just bought McColl Partners, so I imagine that can only help them at this point.
Your question makes little sense.
First off, we aren't talking about TAS or advisory services. We are talking about investment banking in this thread.
Secondly, it's all about deal flow. If you get into a Big 4 M&A group that sees and works on relevant deals, you have a good chance to lateral to another MM IB or into MM PE. You aren't going to break into BB IB from Big 4 M&A/Corp Fin.
Yup. Big 4 M&A groups are going to beef up in the next decade. I think they'll become more formidable in MM deals.
The model is much better than most MM IB shops you see.
PEinvestor you're a smart guy and love throwing monkey shit around (and receive a lot I see) but I have to disagree with you on this one.
Big 4 M&A will never be as good as most MM firms (ex- Houlihan, Jefferies, HW, Piper, Stifel, Imperial, Raymond James etc.).
Instead of throwing MS at me again (which you def will) try and have an intelligent conversation with me to say why the 'mode' is 'much better' as you claim.
I know most ppl think Big 4 never stand a chance compared to MM. But what makes you think of that? any insight?
Wut? I don't see any MS in this thread. And judging someone by the amount of MS is quite pathetic I might add. It's virtual poop dude.
You aren't think about this right. The Big 4 model would be akin to a solid law firm with an IB arm. The model is much leaner. Referrals stem from the CPA or Consulting side of the firm. Think about it this way, a Big 4 group can survive with 5 MDs doing 10 deals per year. HW has 30 MDs, plus more VPs, Associates and Analysts, so HW would need to pull in 70 deals per year to stay on pace.
Last year HW closed 77 deals, probably its best year at 2.5 deals/MD. This year, HW has closed 7. They'll probably end up with 25-30 would be my guess, in an upside case. That's a deal or less per MD.
We have a guy from PWC Corp Fin and I know someone else from KPMG's group. The reason the Big 4 has struggled is mostly due to internal politics. Accounting firms are inherently conservative (and people here think WF is bad). And because of the way things work, audit partners are never willing to give up $100K in recurring revenue for a $1.5 million transaction fee, even though they obviously should. Lots of push back from tax team too from my understanding. There are obviously conflict of interest and legal issues as well.
But, Deloitte's acquisition won't be the last. These firms are beginning to realize where the real money is.
I'm new to this but I'd really like to find out where you get those figures.
Two questions: 1) Salaries for first years in Deloitte IB division 2) Exit opportunities after a couple years and MBA
they said it's hard for the MBA to get in these days w/o previous banking experiences.....
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