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Comments (17)

Feb 22, 2021 - 5:07pm

NA in S&T - Equities

Anyone know anything about the roles below?

Also does anyone have any insight with Citadel's culture?  Doesn't seem like the environment where they try to build you up (from a junior perspective). 

Citadel has a lot of terrific rank-and-file people and it is not a bad place to start a career- don't get me wrong.  But I'm going to nudge you in the direction of a DRW, Optiver, or TMG right now.

If you have time, read up on the IEX's recently approved D-limit order type.  IMO, this is the future of trading and it allows everyone to compete on a more level playing field.

  • Analyst 3+ in HF - EquityHedge
Feb 25, 2021 - 8:32pm

Curious why Optiver? They don't have a strong quant group and haven't been able to compete in US as effectively. Also, who is TMG?

Jun 7, 2021 - 9:20pm

Because Optiver absolutely crushed it in 2020 in terms of PnL.

And because Optiver is absolutely a leader in those strategies that they do.

A 5B a year revenue company and growing, using their profits to re-invest in various areas to compete with existing leaders.

Mar 3, 2021 - 4:31am

Hi illiniprogrammer, just curious why would you nudge in the direction of DRW/Optiver/TMG besides the IEX thing?  And would you recommend taking a graduate role at these shops over citsec if my long term goal (though unclear) has to do with jumping to multimanager hedge funds? I'll be interning at one of these places. My rationale was citsec role seemed more execution focused whereas I wanted to get a taste of research as well. Really appreciate any insights you could offer in advance! Thanks

Mar 4, 2021 - 8:36pm

felixgarrix

Hi illiniprogrammer, just curious why would you nudge in the direction of DRW/Optiver/TMG besides the IEX thing?  And would you recommend taking a graduate role at these shops over citsec if my long term goal (though unclear) has to do with jumping to multimanager hedge funds? I'll be interning at one of these places. My rationale was citsec role seemed more execution focused whereas I wanted to get a taste of research as well. Really appreciate any insights you could offer in advance! Thanks

LaSalle Street is higher sharpe, lower capacity than the hedge fund world, but the same can be said of Citadel Securities.  The difference is that you'll learn more and there will be more opportunities at the other shops.  And a lot of stuff does carry over into longer-term systematic strategies.  They need guys working on faster strategies at the hedge funds, too.

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Jun 7, 2021 - 9:19pm

LoL @ D-limit order being the future of trading.

So, you have a company founded by a mediocre performer at some mediocre bank, who openly admits in his book that he did not know enough about the industry of trading.

And then you have an exchange founded by this mediocre professional that has been in operation for years, and can not crack more than 3% of consolidated volume.

And you expect that a crappy order type "invented" by this exchange is going to be the future of all trading?

  • Junior Trader in PropTrad
Feb 22, 2021 - 8:02pm

Citadel Securities is really trying to distance itself from the awful culture of Citadel LLC, so I must give them credit where credit is due. I don't think it's as rough of a place to be as the hedge fund, and is closer to the other quant prop shops in culture (still on the harsher side I believe).
 

The Systematic Trader role will be on desks trading products that are likely more researcher focused, and the role could involve some more execution side stuff. Less ability to contribute to alpha. Might be more research heavy on some desks and have good upside potential in those cases. More coding, less live decision making.
 

The Semi-Systematic role will be dealing with more complex products requiring live discretionary trader decision making such as the large Equity Options effort CitSec is building out recently. This role will be more like being a trader at a firm like SIG or Optiver imo.

  • Works at Citadel Investment Group
Feb 24, 2021 - 12:22am

It'll vary from team to team. In general, definitely not as bad as everyone seems to think, but pretty intense as it is as most hedge funds. The thing is, Citadel is more of a pure hedge fund (on the HF side obviously, not talking about securities) than companies like 2sig, DE Shaw, that try to strike a balance between a hedge fund and tech company, so it will be intense. But overall, I think people exaggerate how bad it is. I work in GFI and average ~60 hours/week (there's no concept of face time, just obviously be there during active market hours and get your work done), and have never been reamed out by my boss or anything like that.

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