Comments (9)

Feb 22, 2021 - 5:07pm

NA in S&T - Equities

Anyone know anything about the roles below?

Also does anyone have any insight with Citadel's culture?  Doesn't seem like the environment where they try to build you up (from a junior perspective). 

Citadel has a lot of terrific rank-and-file people and it is not a bad place to start a career- don't get me wrong.  But I'm going to nudge you in the direction of a DRW, Optiver, or TMG right now.

If you have time, read up on the IEX's recently approved D-limit order type.  IMO, this is the future of trading and it allows everyone to compete on a more level playing field.

  • Analyst 3+ in HF - EquityHedge
Feb 25, 2021 - 8:32pm

Curious why Optiver? They don't have a strong quant group and haven't been able to compete in US as effectively. Also, who is TMG?



Mar 3, 2021 - 4:31am

Hi illiniprogrammer, just curious why would you nudge in the direction of DRW/Optiver/TMG besides the IEX thing?  And would you recommend taking a graduate role at these shops over citsec if my long term goal (though unclear) has to do with jumping to multimanager hedge funds? I'll be interning at one of these places. My rationale was citsec role seemed more execution focused whereas I wanted to get a taste of research as well. Really appreciate any insights you could offer in advance! Thanks

  • Junior Trader in PropTrad
Feb 22, 2021 - 8:02pm

Citadel Securities is really trying to distance itself from the awful culture of Citadel LLC, so I must give them credit where credit is due. I don't think it's as rough of a place to be as the hedge fund, and is closer to the other quant prop shops in culture (still on the harsher side I believe).

The Systematic Trader role will be on desks trading products that are likely more researcher focused, and the role could involve some more execution side stuff. Less ability to contribute to alpha. Might be more research heavy on some desks and have good upside potential in those cases. More coding, less live decision making.

The Semi-Systematic role will be dealing with more complex products requiring live discretionary trader decision making such as the large Equity Options effort CitSec is building out recently. This role will be more like being a trader at a firm like SIG or Optiver imo.

  • Works at Citadel Investment Group
Feb 24, 2021 - 12:22am

It'll vary from team to team. In general, definitely not as bad as everyone seems to think, but pretty intense as it is as most hedge funds. The thing is, Citadel is more of a pure hedge fund (on the HF side obviously, not talking about securities) than companies like 2sig, DE Shaw, that try to strike a balance between a hedge fund and tech company, so it will be intense. But overall, I think people exaggerate how bad it is. I work in GFI and average ~60 hours/week (there's no concept of face time, just obviously be there during active market hours and get your work done), and have never been reamed out by my boss or anything like that.

  • Works at Citadel Investment Group
Feb 24, 2021 - 1:53pm

I don't work in GQS, but my understanding is generally that the difference comes from quants being direct P&L generators (i.e. within their group some people see the alpha process from start to (mostly) finish) vs at a place like DE or 2sig most researchers only see a small part of the process and so aren't directly linked to P&L. This is just my understanding - like I said, I don't work in GQS, but this is what I would guess from my experience in GFI.

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