Doing things SOLELY to improve your b-school app / resume

The volunteering is good, if you actually do it because you are helping people(regardless of motivation).

The marathon thing is stupid, that's like saying you can bench press 300 pounds, you haven't contributed anything to the world or society it just shows you most likely aren't a fatty.

Volunteering for resume-padding just doesn't sit right with me; it's basically an acceptable form of deceit/mis-representing yourself, right?

Unless the message that the candidate is trying to convey is "I'll put up with any bullshit to meet my goals", which actually can be a valid "strong character point".

I'm a firm believer that you should do things you enjoy and care about and if that helps you get into a top school, more power to you. But I've always been opposed to doing something just for the sake of getting in. Unfortunately, top MBA admissions has become such fluff that it incentivizes people to do this sort of thing.

Just to play devil's advocate - let's say you just graduated college, and you see that in your career path it is standard for somebody to get an MBA from a top program after 3 - 5 years in the work force. Doing your research, you see that you will likely need a good amount of extracurriculars to be considered competitive for these programs. What do you do? You look for extracurriculars you can do to make your application competitive.

I don't see anything wrong with that. I can definitely see why it gives some people a queasy stomach when they see it happening, but look at it from the applicant's perspective. They want to pay school X over $100,000 to teach them some material for 2 years, but school X tells them they won't accept their money as payment for tuition unless they do extracurriculars. So they do extracurriculars. They don't want to have to have to do it, but the schools demand it to be competitive.

If everyone were to stop resume-padding at once, then perfect. If not, those same slackers who put college clubs they don't attend on their resume or volunteering experience they were forced into are going to end up having the most attractive resume.

I see this as a similar argument to steroids - completely unethical, but if you don't have the talent, want to stand out, and see others doing the same thing.... You just hope you don't get caught.

Its important to recognize it exists, and do our best to call people out when in that position of power.

In the marathon example, I don't think the OP was doing it for the sole purpose of embellishing his resume. He just wanted to know if it would help.

Is it disingenuous to volunteer at a soup kitchen bimonthly so you can put it on your b school app? Perhaps, but that's just the nature of these things. I think people joining clubs and student government positions they don't give a shit about is just as hollow and pathetic. At least some good is coming from it though

David Aames:

"which gym is best for networking?"

Guilty.

But seriously, I think OP is being a bit harsh. People do what they need to do in order to be successful. If you want to work for MBB, and you missed the cut in undergrad, you need a top MBA. In order to obtain a top MBA, you need great work experience, grades, GMAT, and..... extracurriculars. Whether you have a passion for volunteering or not, it is more or less necessary in order to round out a clean resume. I'm sure there are dozens of applicants that exaggerate volunteer experience, or worse, blatantly lie about volunteer experience, in order to gain an edge. From that perspective, I'd say the people who are actually going out and benefiting society are miles above those who fabricate experience.

I volunteer a significant portion of my limited free time to a non-profit that helps place skilled immigrants / refugees from third world countries into jobs here in the US. Its a phenomenal organization and hits close to home, as my parents were both immigrants with no direction or understanding of the US job market when they immigrated. I truly feel like I'm making a difference and fully plan to stay with the organization and donate for life, whether I get into a top MBA or not. That being said, I'm really selling myself short by not placing it on my resume and bringing it up in interviews. What does that accomplish? It's just the way admissions works, and as long as adcoms place importance on volunteer work, you're going to see people do what it takes to succeed. No shame in that.

I think SlikRick does it the right way, and, ironically, cuts a lot of slack to those who don't. If only there were some kind of "volunteering" background verification system or app.

I get what you're saying, but I also strongly believe that everyone has to have that "edge". And for top b-school apps, having great ECs is the edge that everyone needs to sharpen before applying.

on a similar note... "Frankly, Wharton Wants Candor - B-School Asks Applicants to 'Be Genuine,' and Would-Be Students Quickly Seek Tips to Learn How" http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014241278873240964045783566219345293…

Reminds me of this: http://gurlgoestoafrica.tumblr.com/

Are you not familiar with Brady4MVP?

i'm they guy who wrote the Marathon post.

i don't want to distract from the point of this thread, but FYI i wasn't planning on doing a marathon "solely to improve" my b-school app. i enjoy long-distance running and have done 10ks and half-marathons just for fun and fitness. i was simply wondering if by putting in some extra work and doing a full marathon i could spin my hobby into a resume opportunity.

superficial? you're god damned right it is. and that's just real talk niggah.

David Aames:

The marathon example above isn't so bad, he/she runs anyways, why not do a marathon and put it on the application...ok fine do that if you want, imo not going to help but I guess I don't see it hurting.

nvm, didn't read this part.

The guy who posted that said he already ran a half-marathon, so clearly he has already been running for some time now, and I doubt he's just doing it just for his business school application.

Didn't even read the other comments. Personally, I feel that in no way should someone who is volunteering just to boost their resume be given the same honor/respect as someone who does it because they care. That being said, doing any community service, regardless of the motive, benefits society. Furthermore, someone who is doing it for their resume could just lie and not help at all. Thats the worst of all. So if your doing community service to boost your resume like myself, power on!!

I completely understand people's frustration on this topic; both from the perspective of those who do EC's because they truly care and from the viewpoint of those who are simply annoyed that such people exist and do these things.

However, let me offer a possible positive perspective: it's not necessarily an easy thing to undertake the kinds of EC's that impress b-school admissions. Such EC's are usually pretty high commitment in terms of time and energy. It's can be pretty hard to stick to such things if you're not really passionate about them or care about them. As such, a fair amount of the "fakers" out there end of not being able to follow through.

Now I understand that it's very possible that people can be passionate, or at least really focused, on their end goal (ie: top b-school acceptance) and therefore they can be compelled to do these "mid-point" goals. In addition, people can always twist, inflate, or even outright lie on these things too. But based on my past obervations of seeing people not following through on things they aren't truly desirious of, I do think at least a sizable amount of those simply in it for the resume boost end up taking themselves out of the equation by their lack of passion.

I think it's stupid schools require it in the first place. Having these "soft" restrictions doesn't make sure their student body is well rounded and interesting. It just makes sure their student body is full of people who know how to game the system and pretend they do all this stuff. Why not cut the theatrics and just judge on merit and essays?

how do you weigh the merits of a job? or creating something?

essays would give the better writers an upper hand

I know a ton of people that spend months on end studying for some stupid test, in the hopes that they can get 10 points higher, solely for the purpose of getting into bschool.

The material tested isn't interesting, it isn't transferrable in any way and does not have a positive effect on anyone around them. Are you really telling me that spending 300 hours volunteering somewhere is that much worse than 300 hours of pointless studying?

What's wrong with volunteering solely for b-school application? We spend many hours doing things solely for admission purpose already; does the GMAT ring a bell? If instead, we can spend just as much time but on something that can have a positive impact on society, I see that as win-win.

Examples from our daily lives are countless. For example, I don't particularly enjoy going to the gym, but I have to in order to stay in shape. I am going to the gym "solely" to get in better health instead of doing it because I like working out itself. On the other hand there are people that genuinely enjoys working out and therefore they are more likely to get better "results". I don't see a problem.

I don't think there is anything wrong with doing things because you want to be a more interesting person. I do take issue with doing things to obtain prestige.

Prestige is a side-effect of being interesting and being good at what you do. As other posters have alluded to, you don't cure your heart disease by running a marathon and getting to a healthy BMI. You cure your heart disease by eating healthier.

Prestige will not solve your problems.

Being an applicant myself i dont see the harm in doing things for the sake of admissions as long as it really adds value to it. Being someone who always was involved in 3-4 projects/EC activities including village developments i always had a rear eye on the benefit my involvement could help me with my career...and whats wrong with that...i f not for anything,

1) It helps the NGO i am being a volunteer at 2) if not anything, being involved in projects outside your work really does add value to your own profile/personality and helps you gain skillset you never thought you will through these activities.

and once you understand this, you go back being part of such activities for with due time people discover new things about themselves and that for me is a greater take away than anything else...even a seat at harvard!

I am going to comment more on the side of joining extra curricular organizations and clubs.

I get livid when I see people join organizations or take on roles on campus just because it looks good on their resume. I hate that ulterior motive. Obviously I realize that making one's resume as fantastic as possible is great, but doing things in life to obtain some other goal is crap.

The worst is when people lie about what organizations they are in. There was once a student on my campus who went through OCR for I-banking, and he put on his resume that he was part of my fraternity (when he was not). Turns out the recruiter interviewing him was actually an alumni of the chapter and he quickly found out the student was bsing. That guy didn't even make it through 3 minutes of the interview, and I'm sure word quickly spread around to blackball this kid.

I am also in several other organizations, and it is extremely easy to tell who's doing it because they are actually interested versus the ones who are in it for the sole purpose of resume building. I, including everyone else, look down upon these kids because they usually are never seen except when there are meetings.

Bottom line, don't lie. Don't fake your interests. Join organizations you actually give two shits about because if the conversation comes up in an interview and you can't properly talk about it...you're screwed. Plus the fact that no one will like you as a person and won't want to be friends with you anyways.

~ GrandJury

The ECs are bullshit, it's just a hoop that you have to jump through. It's the same for med school. They want you to do research and to volunteer, so most people do exactly that to get the necessary boxes checked. I don't get annoyed with people volunteering so that they can check the box for the ad comm. They didn't create a system that gives you extra points for this. What disgusts me is how it is held against people in finance/consulting because they have so little time. Also the hard on for non-profit folks is awful. I've known my fair share, there are two groups the true believers, who I like and the dilettantes that I don't. The true believers work at less sexy causes usually i.e. alleviating poverty in the rural south, live on their shitty pay and truly are down for the cause. The dilettantes are having mommy and daddy float the boat, the causes tend to be sexier and they tend to care less.

If anyone is wondering. Golf is the second best way to network.

I honestly go back and forth on this topic, but in general, I don't mind if people do things solely for resume padding purposes. As pointed out above, people frequently work very hard at things they aren't interested in to advance. College is the perfect example. I voluntarily took advanced calculus (I know in the grand scheme of things this isn't difficult). Do I ever plan on using any of those concepts again? No. Do I find calculus particularly interesting and exciting? Not at all. However I took the course and worked hard to achieve an A in order to maintain a high G.P.A. I think extracurriculars are often viewed differently because people assume that they "should" be fun, but they can certainly be an avenue of broadening one's perspective as a means in itself.

What does annoy me is when people overly embellish their accomplishments both inside and outside of work. I've had some pretty meaningful involvement and success in my career but I'm sure they got diluted by stories of people who "saved an African village from starvation" when all they really did was donate a few cans of tuna fish to Red Cross.

Volunteerism motivated by personal gain is still providing benefit to society, so on a karmic level- who gives a rat's ass why you're doing it? - (insert Nike slogan) On a comic level, you're only fooling yourself if you think admissions committees and interviewers can't see through the BS. Is running a marathon to benefit an orphan disease a good thing? Yes. Will it get you into business school? No. What you need to do is tie it into something else in your life that illustrates an ongoing commitment to the communities you live and work in.