Escalating to HR?
Has anyone here ever successfully escalated things to HR? I’ve had some very poor experiences at my bank:
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Verbal abuse / threatening (realize this is pretty commonplace so not too sure I’ll have any grounds with this)
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Sexual harassment by someone I used to work closely with who is senior to me by a few levels
I know this is vague, so I can provide some more detail by PM if necessary. I don’t want anyone to be fired, and I don’t want anyone to treat me differently or to ruin someone’s life, but I’m miserable as a result of what has happened and am just wondering if there is a way to navigate things. Ideally, this won’t involve HR as they’re likely not my friend here. If anyone has any solutions having experienced something similar or has had successful interactions with HR - please let me know!
I have never gone to HR (luck of the draw) but agree with you looking at them rather sus. I'm sorry you're in this situation and I see no one else has replied so I guess I'll post some unorganized thoughts:
Admittedly the second point is something that I did. I'll admit that it sucked having to walk away from the company I was interning at, but some of the analysts I worked with were fairly verbally abusive with me. I recruited for a different industry entirely and am enjoying, so I guess I got what I wanted at the end of the day.
I never escalated things to HR, just never thought anything would happen.
So wait -- in the one day since you posted this, you already lateraled to a different job/firm? It sounds like you were asking about being stuck at a horrible place, and asking what could you do. So... you're not at the bad place anymore?
I don’t think it is worth it honestly. At a previous finance job, I was sexually harassed in a very blunt way by my direct boss and a “lawyer” who worked on the same floor. Cost benefit if you escalate while you don’t even work there, HR job will be to protect the company. Unless you file a lawsuit (which my friend did), your chances are slim to none. My friend sued her boss and she ended up not being able to get a decent job because her boss called every single reputable firm in the industry.
Recruit elsewhere but at the same time stand up for yourself even if the person is senior. Ask people to repeat what they said, it always throws them off and look firmly and say could you please not address me this way? Happy to update if you have any comments. Try to put everything in writing as a backup too.
Unfortunately the laws in America are still not there yet when it comes to things like this. At my previous bank, my friend’s associate straight up sexually harassed and she told HR and her team knew about it and noone did anything. Not saying your team is like that but my advice to you would be stand your ground, fuck any job don’t let anyone mistreat you and try to go elsewhere asap. Good luck.
Which city are you in or group? Maybe I can help you find something else.
your friends' boss called every single reputable firm in the industry and effectively blacklisted her from ever getting a job again in finance? oh my god
If you are a straight, white, male... HR is not your friend. On the flip side, if you're LGBTQ, a woman, black, latino, muslim, or any other protected group, HR will bend over backwards for your so as to not risk a headline or lawsuit.
Agree with all except muslim, HR does not care about that UNLESS it was religious related discrimination
Not sure who's throwing MS here. This is exactly how it works in 2021.
User name checks out.
Eh not true in my experience where I've seen powerful men protected and women/minorities (along with white dudes) bulldozed back when I was in a highly toxic consulting environment. Remember HR is there to protect the company, NOT the employees, regardless of their skin color or gender.
correct, HR does not care about the employees, but in the political and social climate we live in, the minorities and protected groups (which I am one of) are courted so as to protect the firm.
PM me if you like. I had a situation that I tried escalating to HR, and, as the above posters mentioned, they will probably go into defense mode and not help you at all. I believe there are certain buzzwords (discrimination, harassment, etc) where it stops being a matter for HR to do the right thing and instead gets flipped over to the employment law team. This teams job seems to be to defend the bank at all costs, which in a bizarre way means blindly defending actions of the accused. I think they’re also very mindful of your lack of resources and cost of litigation and know that the risk/reward of pursuing certain things further won’t necessarily be in your interest
HR’s job is to protect senior leadership and the company in general. They are not your friend. You best case scenario is that someone gets fired which I have seen before, but it was a painful process as she was a senior woman in IB. The entire analyst and associate group (excluding me) went to HR as a group.
As a result, I became the only person working with her for a year…horrible experience as she was a mean person. That said, I am glad I did it. I did not want my name tied to any of the nonsense that went on over that year with HR.
Yeah, the only time I've seen HR work for employees was in a similar situation where literally everyone one woman managed (10+ people) banded together and went to HR talking about how badly she sucked and ended up getting fired.
Begin to CYA. Write down EVERYTHING and save it in a cloud drive. Doesn't have to be recordings, just notes on what's happened that can possibly be cross-referenced to help your case.
Whether you go to HR or not is on you. Assuming you're at a big firm, they will have anti-retribution policies in place, but it's often easy to figure out who gone to HR. Use your best judgement on your group and how much you value your career.
I would quit, frankly and drop the bombshell in the exit interview and say you're thinking about disclosing your experience publicly....and sit back and watch the chaos.
I'm sorry but this is completely dumb - just plain terrible advice. A company is only liable for these types of things if you can document that they knew about it (ie you reported it to HR) and that there was a failure to act on their part. "Dropping the bombshell" on your way out just makes you look like a coward and a clown.
If you think reporting it to HR while continuing to work there is a completely risk-free strategy, I suggest you read the majority of the posts above which clearly speak to the downside risks.
this is good advice.. just resign
Have been in a similar situation as OP and felt this was my only avenue so I’ll echo it. Wouldn’t threaten to disclose publicly as that opens up legal issues.
regardless of what the HR system or policies say - it’s rare for an employee who reports anything successfully to have a normal career afterwards or stay much longer at the firm - word spreads and you’ll get tagged as “dangerous” if you stay
best case is you’ll get paid a settlement or sum to “look elsewhere” but I don’t think it’s common and wouldn’t go down that route unless I had an offer in hand to leave.
TLDR; not fair but you’re better off leaving or lateraling
OP here - thank you all for the kind words and help! This is greatly appreciated as I don’t feel comfortable reaching out to people who work closely with me for support.
As of plans now, I’ll definitely document everything in as much detail as possible and try to gather some sort of paper trail.
I am currently in process of looking for other jobs outside of IB (I could’ve probably stayed but the few months I’ve been on the desk have been so miserable with assholes that I don’t even want to try another group or bank) and will probably (as the above poster mentioned) bring up a long list of people stepping out of line towards me in my exit interview so HR can deal with things however they choose to.
Thank you all again - this helped me a ton.
This is risky and I don't recommend it. You don't have to give any details as to why you're leaving, and doing so only will burn bridges at the firm you're about to leave, without giving you any advantages. Even if you think you're leaving IB, finance is a small world and much more well connected than you think. People across verticals in finance know each other, and often the senior positions of less demanding careers (AM, Corp Fin, etc.) are held by people who previously worked in IB. The last thing you need is the senior of the firm you're moving to have worked or know some of the people from the list you give to HR.
OP here - this makes sense, appreciate the feedback here. I do hate the idea that people will continue to be this abusive and toxic at my current firm to people junior to then with no repercussions, but realize it’s a losing battle dealing with HR. I also hate the idea of people thinking I couldn’t handle the job when the reality is I was pushed to the brink by people, but am less concerned about that.
I think it's a mistake to give up on IB (which I imagined you worked pretty hard to attain) because you hate the culture of your current group. Don't let a few assholes dictate your future path; I know plenty of juniors in IB who like/love the culture of their group, and whose groups make the work that much more tolerable. There are a lot of great banks/groups in IB out there with good/great cultures -- you should consider doing some research and go find one.
Those are good considerations! To be honest, I expected to leave and saw IB as a stepping stone to something more permanent so things are just being expedited. I don’t see a point personally in lateraling to another firm with the designs to leave after I finish my analyst stint, but if I intended to stay, 100% would look to lateral.
HR is not your friend! You will get more f**ked this way. If you have an industry mentor you trust, maybe share with them but still be EXTREMELY CAREFUL!! At my previous firm, I felt discriminated again and I just took it up the ass because I had no choice.
Here is my story. I joined a boutique CRE firm that focused on acquiring value add investments and also had a brokerage arm. They brought me on for acquisitions & strategy which also included revamping their tools and training staff. The owners wanted stretch returns, meaning market gave 13-14% IRR and they wanted 16% IRR with out stretching assumptions or taking on more risk through higher leverage or assuming faster growth. Fast forward to COVID, they cut my base pay in half and told me to join the brokerage team or leave the company. These a**holes took covid funds and cut my base pay. Even worse, my first lead as a commercial broker, I asked the owner/boss for help and he said the account wasn't a lead. Fast forward to 3 months later, that became the owners lead. Even after, I got my first client to sign up with the firm and then they began to make verbal treats to fire me. They then told me in November 2020 my role would transition to fulltime brokerage which I agreed to because I didn't want to be unemployed. These jerks gave me my new brokerage contract on December 27th and said I had to get a $2 million insurance policy and a brokerage contract that was materially different from other brokers at the firm. I had no choice but to sign the document because if I didn't, I would be fired. I couldn't talk to lawyers (holidays and I had to sign before December 31st) and the contract stated I couldn't show it to anyone. It was painful and miserable because I was told I would make $350K plus through $100K plus base and bonuses through acquisition and carry. Well, my pay had gone to ZERO and my contract was essentially a BAIT & SWITCH. I networked like hell and turned down a couple of jobs. Once they made me a fulltime broker, I had a couple of groups reach out saying I did a great job in my consultative approach and these guys closed my costar account (aka bloomberg for CRE). I found out through the costar rep than my employer. Fortunately, I landed a bad ass job in early 2021 at one of the best CRE firms in my market. When I resigned, the owner asked what shop I was going to and if I was going to be instate, I didn't say a damn word and left on good terms. 2 weeks later, he sent me a text congratulating me, telling me he would have been happy for me if I shared what firm I was going to, again I just said thanks and played it cool. If I could compare firms, it would be going from BB&T to Goldman/Evercore type shop over night. No, I was not a diversity hire! The guy I replaced was a white guy who got fired after 7-8 weeks from a top-5 real estate MBA program in the country. I just worked for guys who were a**holes at best and racist a**holes at worst. Not all black or diversity candidates diversity candidates as some of you would like to think!!
The new firm has been great! I crushed it early!! Got a 20% raise within 6-months and they got me involved to teach CRE FINANCE at the top university in the state I am in. Again, the a-holes I worked for previously reached out to find out what I was up to (it's a small industry in CRE), I gave them nothing!!
They owed me promote/carry on a deal I helped acquire while at the firm, and the clown said he had an update on a new deal they were acquiring and they wanted to give me shares. Knowing they were jerks, I told them I wanted a buyout in the deal I was involved in. They refused at first and that's when I put in writing how they treated me! I am hoping to get completely bought out by end of the year. If they don't buy me out, I have a couple of lawyers lined up to f**k them because they took COVID funds and my contract was different from all their white employees.
To get back to your comment, the company had an HR department but she worked in-line with what the owners wanted. Even when I asked for the 7-8 updates to my contract during my two year period at this toxic firm, HR was involved and she only sent things piece mill or followed up with sh*t from the owners.
NEVER TRUST HR!!
The best solution is to jump ship and lateral. Don't waste your time trying to document. As others have mentioned even if you report to HR, it's unlikely that action will be taken against the senior. But let's say you have a really compelling case and HR suspends/terminates the senior employee. If that senior employee is fired, your potential career in that company will be a tossup. If he's universally hated and low-performing, there won't be too much resentment against you, but If he performs well and/or is liked in the office and he's only been harassing you in particular because you're attractive, many people in the remainder of the team will feel resentment against you and will see you as a liability to work around. This doesn't even factor in all the connections that senior guy will have on the street, and you bet he will tell his friends about you and to toss out your resume if they see it. So now you've burned bridges with many people in your own team as well as people who you don't even know across the street. I know it sounds cliche but finance really is a small world and you'll end up running into people who you never thought you'd run into down the road if you stay.
If you lateral you can just give a generic vague answer as to why you left old opportunity (didn't fit with company culture, looking for a new opportunity, etc.). and that's the end of the story.
OP here - these are interesting considerations. It’s highly likely people will resent me as this person has been here far far longer than I have and doesn’t seem to have a pattern of this sort of behavior.
If I do jump ship, will it reflect poorly on me if I don’t provide reasons why? I’ve only been on the desk for 7-8 months. If I do leave, I want to leave in the most seamless way possible, as I already expect to face backlash from seniors and other team members I work closely to.
No. Your fellow teammates will probably assume you didn't want to put up with the hours. Not everyone is expected to make it to the 2 year mark.
That makes it easier for you, not harder because it's easy for a firm to find replacements for junior level employees. Your slot will probably be filled before HR even gets around to putting an application online. Your coworkers will have several kids aggressively networking looking to break in. Once you leave, they'll take your place.
I doubt you are going to get a ton of backlash. They might be upset the day you quit, but once your spot is filled in a few weeks, they could care the less about you leaving. That's much different than trying to leave a list to HR and making yourself easy to remember for the wrong reasons.
What exactly do you mean by "will it reflect poorly on me if I don't provide reasons why?"? Provide reasons to whom? Keep in mind the next time you look for a job (i.e. your third job), likely no one is going to care why you left your first company.
Similarly, not sure how much backlash you can realistically face from your current team. Like if you're leaving, what are they gonna do? Fire you?
Honestly, it does feel kinda shitty to me that someone can get away with nasty shit like this. It's a difficult situation, and this thread has been pretty discouraging regarding going to HR (I'm a little less bearish on that option, but also I work in the tech world now where these things are likely taken somewhat more seriously, though still not 100%). At the end of the day, do what is best for you and your career.
Never report anyone for harassment, it’s a low reward high risk scenario. You don’t want your reputation to be of someone who will report people because it could make firms see you as a risk
Copy that from above. HR doesn't care about its employees and will always protect the firm. I would document emails if you have any / behavior / hire your own attorney. They will only charge you if they can win the case.
The responses by those people in here with clearly less than 3 years work experience can be easily seen. HR protects minorities these ppl have no idea.
First you never goto HR unless your goal is to get paid for “stress leave”. Next, the only way you play minority card is you stfu do your work and get results. That way when the “quota is needed to be fit”, everyone says man XYZ is great and a “minority” easy hire decision.
When you leave you can simply say “i did not fit with the culture of the group.” This is only after you secure your next job. Yes majority of people will assume could not hack work/hours. But your probably not first person to leave so lots of folks will be like yah their culture is shit.
So again unless you want stress leave pay (dont expect top bonus) do not goto HR.
For supposedly being a "PM" your writing skills are somewhat lacking...
just respond back. somebody says shit to you, tell them they're acting unprofessional and they should watch their language. somebody is sexually harassing you, tell them you're not interested. if they continue, tell them it's unprofessional and if they don't stop you'll report them.
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