Family Offices vs MFs
Hey guys,
I'm currently a second year analyst at an EB (Evercore / PJT / CVP) and looking to make the jump to PE. I've had a few interviews, mainly with MFs, and have a few upcoming with large family offices (think Soros, Dell, etc.). Obviously, this forum is full with info on the MFs, but I can't seem to track down much information related to these large family offices. Generally speaking, can someone provide additional insight into FOs, specifically in terms of exit opportunities, pay, culture, and ~prestige~? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Also, as I am looking at both MFs and FOs, how would you compare the two opportunities? Obviously a very vague question, but what are the main benefits of one opportunity over the other? Do the two offer similar opportunities in the long run?
Thanks everyone for your help!
Not really educated on the topic, but would assume a family office would have better WLB? Potentially worse career progression as well since its owned specifically for someone else. Would to love hear more from someone who is more in tune with this.
Large, established FOs are so slept on. At those shops, you get paid very well to do interesting principal investing with great WLB.
Thank you! This is a very personal question, but do you think the WLB outweighs the potential sacrifice in prestige (and, in turn, career progression)? I'm trying to wrap my head around if pursuing FO in lieu of MF is worth it.
Totally worth it man, especially for a place like MSD or Wildcat. You get much more autonomy and get paid very well. Just ask Gregg Lemkau why he left GS for MSD.
Also interested in this. How would your exit ops / career progression at an MSD compare to that at a KKR?
Bump can someone comp MSD and the MFs
Prestige is so unbelievably overrated. Most people in the real world, not on this forum, do not care that you work at a MF. They certainly don't know whether WSO thinks it's a Tier 1, Tier 2, etc. MF. Most people's knowledge of investment firms is basically just the meme:
Solve for the highest paycheck, the best WLB, some mix of the two... but solving for prestige is a wild goose chase because 99% of people don't know and don't care. The only ones who care are in your analyst class with you, and they probably won't care in another year or two either.
Worked at a family office before. Comp is alright, WLB is next level, career progression is capped as you will never be a family member. I’d treat on a case by case basis
Job security is also at the whim of the family. Overnight you could be fired because of some external factor.
Extremely true. After I left, the firm decided to do less direct investments on a whim. Rendered two roles obsolete real quick
Would you say this is true for large institutional family offices, like Wildcat?
Couldn’t say! Don’t personally have experience somewhere that big / anything anecdotal for you
What makes you say Wildcat is institutionalized? It’s like 10 guys subletting some office space in TPG’s office. They run a slice of Bondermans net worth, a bunch is in RE and public markets (FI and equities) and a sliver is in PE. From an asset allocation standpoint, he’s already massively over exposed to PE, so he’s not exactly running his own $4bn sleeve of PE on the side.
More broadly, the FO mandate is ‘stay rich’ not ‘get rich’. So it’s typically (even tho there is no typical in FO world) not dramatically over-allocated to direct investing and not much of a slugging mentality.
WLB for sure better. Economic model varies. Some are decent but pretty uninspiring comp-wise, others can be very attractive if you have ability to put a lot of capital to work (even at a jr level) and get paid off AUM you put to work and performance. Lots of unknowable family drama/infighting and sometimes the FO staff is just viewed as part of the help.
Unlike actual PE world, being at a $2-3bn FO is actually pretty scaled. Unlike managing institutional capital, there’s slim to no tail outcomes.
Also have to think about more practical outcomes like “what happens when Soros dies in like 3 years or Bonderman dies in like 7 years?” Etc. So from that perspective none of these places are institutions.
Pretty sure Lemkau was hired at MSD to turn it into an actual alternative asset manager.
I think Pritzkers, Mousse Partner, JAB are up there.
You can always marry into the family.
Yep. See Standard Industries
The ultimate exit opp
Really depends on the FO. Pretty standard information on MFs on this forum but there's a difference in being at Soros Fund Management and a no-name type of FO which may have a singular type of mandate. On one hand FOs could offer you a diverse experience with good upward mobility without the need for an MBA or whatever, but there are also some which could feel trapping given how narrow the investment mandate could be.
Do you happen to know particular FOs that have a strong WLB, while having a more institutional investment structure?
Soros is pretty institutionalized. WLB is pretty darn good but it depends on who your PM is mostly. Comp runs into the 7 figures so that’s not terrible.
MSD I’m sure is more institutionalized as well. Especially since they’re opening up to third party money (MSD partners vs capital. Idk how the whole thing works)
Isn't Soros a HF?
FO in the sense that it only runs money belonging to soros (and employees). but yes, it runs HF-like strategies. from what i understand, it consists of trading pods and placing money with external managers
Interesting topic. Can anyone provide some more info MSD? Curious
Any info?
i work at a $4B family office doing private company direct investing. happy to answer any questions anyone might have.
Hi, how many YOE and can you provide information on total comp and breakdown for Associate and Senior Associate? Thanks.
I’ve for 2.5 YOE. We do standard hiring like most funds so Asc1 come in with 2-3 years of work experience. As an associate you make $160 your first six months (summer you start thru Dec), $175 then $190. Definitely a discount but WLB is amazing.
How do you see the longevity of your role if you wanted to stay and progression?
Always wanted to work at a FO for the best of what it can be, but the politics and such make a strong deterrent. Are there capital lock ups typically? What’s gonna happen if there’s too much political issue and how to diligence for that when joining a firm?
Any red flags at your current firm that you would stay clear of at the next // what are things you’ve realized once actually working at the firm vs the marketing they had toward you before joining?
Also are you in a popular geography (nyc/CA) or smaller city? Southern (warm) or no?
Sample set isn’t big since our classes tend to be 1 person in a year and we don’t hire every year but only one person has gotten pushed out and that was due to very poor performance. They’ve never implied that I’ll have to leave and in fact generally talk about my long term career. We will see how that actually plays out.
At the associate level at least no politics I’ve seen outside of standard office politics. Part of our diligence is about reputation though and we don’t invest in anything that could look bad in the news (e.g., for profit education, consumer lending, etc.)
EDIT: I thought about this more and I will add that there is one person at the top of our family office and there are some politics in the fact that they have final say on everything (since its their money). So everything is catered to one person and it specifically tailored to them. They’re generally amicable and open minded, but it’s still something to consider. If you don’t agree with their investment profile / them in general you won’t have a good time.
No real red flags. I guess two things I’d call out are (a) like someone mentioned the goal is to stay rich not get rich so with how hot the deal market has been we lose in a lot of processes since we don’t HAVE to deploy capital and we don’t want to pay crazy multiples which can be frustrating and (b) the volume is a lot lower so you’re getting fewer reps and I’d say in general family offices can be less technical in my opinion (no IC with 10 people grinding you down with questions and asking for a bunch of follow up analysis). Work life balance has been great though. This is a fund by fund thing, but at mine unnecessary work is pretty limited and everyone from MD to associate splits up work and I rarely every work late or on the weekends.
I’m in a “second tier city” (e.g., Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, etc.)
I'm at a $1B family office outside of New York, happy to answer detailed questions
Voluptas delectus similique aut ut. Aut voluptas architecto velit est sunt. Laudantium delectus minima unde ab placeat voluptas aut. Aut suscipit rerum aliquam animi quisquam expedita.
Nihil quod ea animi est nihil soluta. Delectus voluptatem voluptatum autem laboriosam. Odio qui nemo est dolorem dolorum asperiores. Sequi qui non officiis quia provident.
Deserunt dolor et perferendis doloribus dolorum ut. Consequatur vel facere dolorum. Asperiores error doloremque corporis harum vero.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Qui eos repellendus pariatur omnis. Repellat ipsam ad enim eos nihil placeat voluptatem. Recusandae vitae expedita eaque labore quia sunt. Aut unde ea amet reprehenderit.
Reiciendis voluptate vel quia dicta minus libero. Voluptatem voluptatem dolores dolorem et maxime.
Impedit enim voluptates et quaerat accusamus. Assumenda doloremque accusamus aspernatur ex architecto tempore sed. Est est facilis dolore sed. Rerum adipisci veniam ab sequi. Tempora suscipit qui fugiat doloribus.
Harum modi aut doloremque quasi. Nisi voluptas nesciunt autem voluptatem assumenda et nemo. Error velit in fugiat culpa eaque tempora rem et. Eum modi excepturi voluptatibus vero iure eaque. Maxime velit tempora laborum suscipit deleniti iusto veritatis. Et ab dicta ullam.