- Germanys 42% top tax bracket starts at €57k per year (If you earn over 250k an additional 3% "rich-tax" increases the tax rate to 45%) Not to mention other kinds of indirect taxes which push the effective tax rate over 50% (property tax, media tax...)
- You do not earn six figures like in the US in either IB/Consulting/PE at junior level
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Rents in major German cities are all >1k/month for one-room apartments; even for most bedrooms in shared flats
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Cost of living on average is higher than in the US
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Most jobs (including IB) expect a Masters degree most of the times. So you're >23 years old when you start your career
And that's just a few examples...
Am I missing something, or is everything career-wise worse in Germany compared to the US?
Don't forget most firms require 2-3 languages and prior IBD experience, AND for some damn reason want a CFA designation.
In Deutschland
For real tho. I speak two languages fluently and that's considered not enough. It is expected to have >3 summer analyst internships and even the CFA...
You get a LOT more for your taxes than in the US.
You don't earn that as an A1 in London either, despite the significantly higher COL. And no European city is as expensive as NYC
That's just untrue, unless you mean the US as a whole, and not the financial centers (NYC, SF, Chicago). As a German in SF/NYC/Chicago, I am shocked by how everything is so expensive here.
Education is free or nearly free and you never go back for a MBA, which costs Americans over half a million in direct and opportunity costs (assuming they worked in finance/consulting pre-MBA).
Not saying Germany or Europe is better than the US, but your argument is flawed because it doesn't account for the differences in environment. Once you factor those in, it's about the same
Don’t forget the chip on their shoulder for being down 0-2 against the USA.
Tbf, it was against the world not just the US. And it was close both times.
So I spent a few years in Germany (Frankfurt, Munich and elsewhere), and wanted to chime in based on my experiences
Taxes in the EU are generally higher, not just in Germany. But you also get more in return. free healthcare, free education, and other services like child care, a more robust social security framework and more. I can understand why some might like the idea, and some might not. I like the idea and concept, but they were also the reason why I left Germany (no kids, no need for any other services).
Plenty of people I know earn six figures. You just don't receive "crazy" six figures like in many other places. 120K in Munich is totally feasible. Benefits are also very good.
Rent is high in all key German cities, I agree on that. But rent is also lower than in NYC or London. You could work at HSBC in Düsseldorf and find decent apartments at good price points.
I agree on that, but many EU cities are expensive as well. Not just Germany.
Yes, the German Abitur and Bachelor/Master create slightly older applicants. It is not possible to get your high school degree at 18 and have your bachelors at 21 or so. It is just the culture and how it is done.
I think all points are valid and show the differences between very different countries and cultures. Also, I have met many Germans who didn't like the system and left for London or other places. Or they created their own company. You don't have to do it this way. I also left because I didn't like many things and I don't regret that decision.
There are also a few benefits if you work in Germany though:
- more stable employment, not always a "hire and fire" mentality
- friendly, professional work ethic
- on average, I worked fewer hours per week in Germany compared to English speaking countries
- if something happens (medical/personal) you should be on the safer side than in other places, benefits are pretty good
I don't think Germany is for everyone, you have to be the type of person who likes a more organized, structured way of life that isn't as big or exciting as London. You will encounter more "paper work" and bureaucracy in Germany, and there are more "rules or guidelines". But that is also how the system is trying to help the average guy. If you are not into "big gov", Germany might not be for you.
If a worker is in love with NYC, chances are high they won't like Munich or the lifestyle in Hessen. All of these comments are for EU immigrants who are fluent or near native in German and other languages (and, ideally, Caucasian). If you are from outside of the EU and don't speak German or any other languages... it might be a bigger issue. Some say it is a cold place - I'd say it takes a lot more time to create relationships. After-work drinks are less common and people separate work life and personal life more. I have friends who are POC in Germany and they will tell you a different story about how life in Germany might be...
Understand the frustration from OP and think that the replies indeed help to put things into perspective.
One additional negative: stereotype is that Germans a freakin machines so everyone is expected to work super hard
One additional positive: studies are long but opportunities to do internships at great places with little experience are abundant (much better prospects than Paris/Madrid/Milan from that perspective)
In addition to all the good comments by CB, I would like to add that if s**t really hits the fan, you're a lot better protected in Germany (and pretty much Europe as a whole) compared to the US. This eliminates a lot of stress (I lived in both continents, I just feel like in the US left-tail events can ruin you a lot more than in Europe).
It's also much safer generally and cities are way more pleasant. You can take your days off or enjoy your meals in peace and not being seen as being soft.
If you have a family or planning to, your costs will be a fraction of what you would have in the US. So if you're earning 120-150k in Germany, you can most likely support a family with a very decent lifestyle, which is significantly harder to accomplish in major US cities.
One big negative of living in Germany (or any other European country) as a foreigner is that you will probably never be perceived as "German". The US is still a relatively young nation and was built on immigration, so it is easier to blend in as a foreigner. This is important imo as a long-term consideration.
Your last point is super relevant for immigrants I have met in Germany. The vast majority of immigrants I met were of Turkish, Syrian, Russian, Polish, Czech, Hungarian, Italian, Lebanese, Crotian, Greek, Serbian, or Ukrainian descent (there are others too, just collecting my thoughts who I met). Their children were either very young when they came to Germany, or they were born and raised there. None of them saw themselves as "German"; integration into the German culture seems to be very difficult if you come from a different or hybrid cultural background.
This isn't an international melting pot like the US were all colors live and work next to each other. The entire nation is more cohesive and the "leading culture" is the German one. There is nothing wrong with it and this is just "how it is done" there, but if an expat or immigrant is looking for "the German dream", you might not find it in the culture.
Currently working in Germany but originally from an English speaking country. Looking at moving to the UK because of the crazy taxes. You only get your 'money's worth' if you have kids and intend to grow old and retire in the country.
All the great spas, lots of fun to be had there.
As a person from southern Europe, the biggest problem for me in Germany were... Germans and their mentality - a combination of stiff, distant and humorless atmosphere. Frankfurt is a city that has a provincial spirit and cannot be compared to London, which is characterized by diversity in every sense.
I (and many of us reading this) managed to enter a highly selective/demanding/paying industry in the early 20s, I am not interested in the low cost of living, the low crime rate, infrastructure, quality of public primary schools etc. With a desire for success, a target university, top internships in IB/PE, incoming FT and upper middle class parents who are well off to help me if any problem arises, it is realistic to say that I will not have financial problems in my life. Next step to focus on? Life is short and I should fill it with remarkable memories. The things that are important to me in this period of my life besides good health are developing a successful career and fun. The latter is very difficult to achieve in Germany.
In the eyes of a southern European, what I didn’t like was simply a culture in which enjoying life was seen as a sin. Classic German culture of renunciation of pleasure and obsessive saving. Germans, of course, have many positive traits. A lot of changes happen when you come out of the 20s and start planning family life, Germany is good at that aspect. However, in my 20s my priorities are different and the UK simply offers more.
Btw, I speak fluent German/I was exposed to that culture before, received FT offer in FFM, so I am not writing this post out of anger, I have not had problems of that nature.
This is just untrue and you clearly have no understanding of our culture. I would be happy to explain it to you over DMs, although it would have to wait tomorrow because my daily minute of leisure is up
>With a desire for success, a target university, top internships in IB/PE, incoming FT and upper middle class parents who are well off to help me if any problem arises, it is realistic to say that I will not have financial problems in my life.
>life is short and I should fill it with remarkable memories
no way Spaniards are THIS retarded lmfao
Well some countries in Europe have to work hard and save so that others (Spain, Greece etc) can continue to be nothing but a burden to the EU
1) Comparing German culture to Southern European culture isn't fair. These are different places and you can't expect people or their mentality to be the same. Germans can be surprisingly funny and relaxed, but it takes a different approach to see this side. You won't see this at the office. If you are into Fasching you'll see how they can indeed have fun.
2) Frankfurt doesn't have seem to have a lot of diversity because the entire country is less diverse than the UK or the US.
Here is a fun fact: Did you know that 26.0% of residents in Germany are either migrants or have a migration background? That is a very high number - the key difference to UK/London or the US would be that the majority of immigrants are non-visible minorities. There simply aren't many Africans, Asians or South Americans around. (source: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migrat…)
Since this is a career forum, another aspect should be looked at.
If you are a young, ambitious, extremely hard-working professional who is looking for the highest salary, quick promotions, low taxes and all of this packaged in exciting, cool/large and diverse cities with no big government - conservative Germany is not for you.
Like you said, the US or the UK would be a much better fit.
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