Goal: best school possible obviously, realistic is top public like UCLA, UNC, UT-Austin, etc., some private schools like NYU or USC
GPA: 3.0, UNC undergrad economics
Background: 4 years wealth management, 2 years mid-office energy, now Army Officer (long story), already have my CFA Charter from before I joined the military
On to the GMAT...
Took it in July: 650, Verbal 37/82%, Quant 43/47%
Took it again today: 660, Verbal 41/93%, Quant 39/35%
Surprised I did so poorly on quant since I thought I did better. Originally used the Manhattan GMAT guides. This time I mostly worked practice questions on the Official Guide, which seemed easier but helped me learn some of the tricks like with data sufficiency. Verbal, I literally just do a couple days going over the Manhattan GMAT sentence correction guide and that's it. Verbal has always been a natural strong skill of mine.
I'm very confident in my verbal abilities, but quant is getting frustrating. I know 660 isn't like I completely shit the bed or anything, but especially with a low GPA, it's not exactly hitting it out of the park either. I'm hoping my background, including CFA Charter and military experience, is a plus.
I'm taking a break for now since I was getting burnt out with the practice questions, but wondering your advice on really going for that 700+, maybe after a couple months of a break before hitting the books again, or sending it at 660. Any recommendation on good quant study material would be appreciated as well. Obviously something isn't working so open to feedback.
If you keep tanking the maths, do GRE. Easier maths and almost all schools accept it.
But does "accept" mean "treat equally"? I don't know the answer to that. But I'd ask a few student adcoms at target schools for the inside scoop there. I don't know anyone who took GRE to get into b-school.
Virtually ALL admissions committees at top MBA programs are test agnostic; meaning they don't have a preference between GMAT and GRE.
The one outlier is INSEAD who expects applicants to take the GMAT.
Pick the test on which you will perform best.
Julian - Schools are looking to the standardized test as one indicator of your ability to handle the quantitative rigor of the program. The CFA Charter will give them some confidence but a 700+ score will make them a lot more comfortable given the soft UG GPA.
Your military background could give you a bit of wiggle room in terms of test scores.
Two years ago we worked with a veteran who had
d
Nothing to add except GMAT quant sucks. Backwards thinking and a high bar. Hang in there
https://blog.militarytobusiness.com/2018/11/average-military-applicant-…
take the course on gmatquantum.com and try again. The course helped to boost my quant score significantly and isn't too expensive.
Hi Julian,
I'm unfamiliar with the course that Frank recommended, but I suggest you consider a tutor. (no I don't own a tutoring company.) We've seen clients make significant improvements after working with a tutor.
Another option, as the Pharma Guy mentioned, is to try the GRE. Most programs accept both, prefer none, and advise that you take the test that you will do better on.
As to overall "chances," you are somewhat hard to predict since you have some elements that are really strong (military, CFA, work experience ) and some that really aren't (GMAT, GPA). Ideally it makes sense to move the GMAT from the second category to the first. :-) . If you can, you'll be that much more competitive at your target programs. If you can't, you're not out of the running, but a weaker candidate.
I understand that you're planning to apply next year. If that's correct, you still have the time to try to turn a negative into a positive and it makes sense to do so.
As it happens I'm giving the webinar Round 3 vs Next Year on Wednesday January 16, if that's something of interest to you.
Best, Linda
I have no affiliation with GMAT Quantum, just always looking to spread the word as the founder Dabral isn't active on here but the course single-handedly got my quant practice scores from a 40 to a 49 in a few weeks. Even if you decide not to take the course, the free white board answers to the OG problems he provides are awesome.
OP I also wouldn't neglect continuing to study for verbal as the real key to high GMAT scores for native english speakers is a 99% verbal. Figure out your weakest area and hone in there. For many it is SC which I think is the most "studyable".
Also if I remember correctly, there are some schools that will take your best verbal and best quant score to calculate your GMAT score, Linda Abraham would know better which schools do this, but in your case a Q43/V41 is ~690.
Same. I have only heard good things about Dabral and GMAT Quantum. He also help/tutor GRE at ‘Quantum Grad Prep’
That's an impressive improvement Frank Slaughtery . congrats!
I believe that INSEAD and Tuck use your highest verbal and quant scores when they evaluate your application.
Take the GMAT again. You can definitely improve quant with practice. 700+ will open a lot of doors.
I would definitely take the GMAT again. Try the Economist GMAT program - when I used it they offered a 50pt increase or your money back. With your scores now you'd probably be limited to the 10-20 ranked schools, but with an increase to 700+ you open up your options. You also have a unique background which could help.
Keep in mind as a vet you're competing against other vets, not really against other applicants. adcoms can't really distill or differentiate military accomplishments, so they'll give the edge to the princeton ROTC grad with a 700+/3.5 GPA every time. I also think that the current climate/lack of deployments in the military is leading to a lot more officers getting out and applying to schools, making it more competitive.
PM me with specific questions if you want, I'm military officer who just went through the application process.
If GRE is an option I would go for it. I got a 710 on the GMAT with 59% on the quant (so 99%+ on verbal) and the only school I got into did not ask for a split.
Meanwhile on the GRE I got an 800 on the quant part so go figure.
What is it that makes the GRE quant so much easier? Took the GMAT a few years back right after graduating college and ended up with a nearly identical score to OP so will need to retake either the GMAT or GRE, but now study while working in PE so need to make sure I find the easiest path forward...
Since your GPA is quite low, I strongly recommend you to retake the GMAT!
Echoing what others have said: you're much closer to a 700 than you feel like you are. I spent 8 years as an army officer before applying and matriculate in 2017. My undergrad GPA was stronger (3.6) but I had no relevant business experience or qualifications like the CFA. I took it twice and got a 660 both times, then used magoosh's online videos and question bank with like 6k questions with video explanations and got a 710. That was 5 weeks of buckling down after studying for 4 months and my score popped 50 pts. I'm a second year a non H/S/W M7 school right now. I've never taken the GRE but would advise against changing course right now.
I'd like to respectfully disagree with badmonkey's comment above that adcom's don't differentiate military accomplishments. Look at the vet groups at any top 10 programs and you'll see they're significantly overweight on special ops, rangers, aviators, and generally all combat arms backgrounds vs less sexy military roles. I know at my school our vets group is very involved in working with admissions to distill what a veteran's resume is saying, and I know many other competitive schools have vets groups that do the same. Might not be true everywhere, but in my experience it does hold weight.
Don't get discouraged, you're almost there even if it doesn't feel like it.
With your background, a 700+ GMAT will give you the keys to the kingdom. If you really can't crack it, take a shot at the GRE and see if you fare better there. Keep grinding man, you're closer than you think you are. You passed all 3 levels of the CFA for Chrissakes, I have to believe you have the drive, discipline, and intellectual horsepower to get the score you need.
Hi Julian,
Solid job on the 660 and really great work on the verbal. I'd go at the GMAT again (no GRE yet). You're doing well and likely closer to the 700+ than it looks especially considering that GMAT quant is MUCH easier to improve than verbal. That your verbal score is fantastic is an indication of solid reasoning skills which should be working to your advantage on the quant as well. I'd consider a few things:
A break isn't a bad idea. Refresh. Reset. And get back to the GMAT with some new energy.
Don't obsess about the quant. It will come. To hit 40+ on verbal means you've got great critical thinking skills. You just need to get them to work for you on the quant as well. To add, the more you can treat quant questions as you would critical reasoning questions the better.
Stick to mostly official GMAT questions for quant practice and make sure to keep and error log. For Official questions it looks like you still have plenty of options: the GMAT Official Practice Questions (question bank), Exam Packs (extra tests 3-6), and GMAT Focus (Official Quant Quizzes). I'd add the links but not allowed.
On the non-official side, 2-3 weeks before your test you could mix in MGMAT CATS (quant only) and Atlantic GMAT Quant Review Quizzes along with full Official CATs and GMAT Focus. It can help to take a whole bunch of quant cats in the few weeks before a test to really bombproof yourself.
Why not go for more on verbal? If you can get a 41 without much work then with a bit of a push you can likely get to a 44 (or higher). With that the 700+ is much easier. Also, the verbal work will keep you from getting too dug in on the quant side. I'd do LSAT questions for the GMAT verbal practice. LSAT Critical Reasoning and Reading Comprehensions make for great practice. LSAT verbal is a bit tougher than GMAT verbal so really gets you ready for upper level questions.
Again, you've done well and have what I would consider a good breakdown for seeing a meaty amount of additional improvement. Hope this is helpful. Follow up with any questions. Happy studies!
-Andrew
Update: I've read everyone's comments and appreciate your feedback. Re-tested today:
Total: 650, 73% Verbal: 34, 71% Quant: 46, 58%
I could say that staying flat at 650 is frustrating but that's putting it mildly. I am very pleased with the improvement in the quant score, but slipping on verbal feels like getting punched in the jaw especially since that is normally my moneymaker.
At this point, I'm thinking about giving it one more go and after that, I may need to just go with what I got. I need to shift back to other priorities that I'm working on and can't just be studying for the test forever. That said - if quant holds, and if verbal was just a screwup today, this could work. From my previous 2 attempts, I got a 37 and 41 on verbal. I found an online calculator, and if I combined the 37 with today's quant score, that's 680. If I combined the 41 with today's quant score, that's 710. This may be worth one more go, but after that, I may just need to call it good.
Hi Julian,
That is frustrating.
A couple of schools (Tuck, I believe, and INSEAD) will evaluate your app based on the highest individual scores, but most schools don't do that. However, they see all scores.
Basically I agree with you. If you think you just messed up today and therefore can improve the verbal without blowing the quant, go for it and see if you can't do better overall. A client did that this year with the GRE. He had a very similar second exam experience to yours, and the third time was the charm for him. He's now in at programs he almost didn't apply to.
And if it doesn't work, apply with what you've got. You still have a decent chance at your target programs. I also want to mention that Rotman will waive the GMAT for CFA charter holders.
Good luck with it!
Wow, I legitimately didn't know that about the CFA Program. I did a search and apparently so do some Executive MBA programs in the US, but I'm not at EMBA level yet. Some regular MBA programs also apparently waive their finance core curriculum classes with a CFA Charter.
I think my way forward is: get the Manhattan Verbal guide and study it "by the book." I've had success winging it really with verbal in the past, normally a pretty natural skill, but not leaving it to chance this time. Review my existing material for quant. I am happy with boosting the previously low scores. After that though, going to send it. Take a practice test in 3-ish weeks, and then set a date for a real one.
As of now, realistically, I think UT Austin, UCLA, or a comparable top public school is a good fit. I'd say UNC but already did that for undergrad and kind of want to explore something different and in a bigger city. I like big city life for the networking and also fun activities.
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