What is the deal with GS ER?
Hi Everyone,
As someone trying to break into ER, I'm really curious to know why GS ER does not target II votes. They have a ton of reputable analysts and pay above the street to my knowledge, so it seems like they would fare very well if they did. Although the process is less than objective, it is still the primary research rankings that people are looking at.
Is it because they are Goldman and they figure they don't need rankings for the buyside to use their research? Or is it out of fear that if they did target votes they would not come out near the top?
I'd definitely be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.
Well JMHO but the II rankings are bullshit. It's not like I pull out II and look at their list to determine which analysts I want to call. Also, as you referenced, the II rankings are heavily gamed. Still, a lot of SS analysts and team leads are evaluated based upon these rankings, so they have to play the game.
Yeah so similar to what has been said, they don't believe II is a fair/objective measure. They instead like to tout Starmine as a better/more objective measure (which, no coincidence, they do well in). Also, they are ultimately much more interested in ranking top 3/5 among their top tier clients than chasing smaller clients for votes.
They would not rank anywhere near the top imo. I can only speak for my coverage, but they have not had a good analyst for over three years. They're on their third analyst as guys keep leaving for the buyside. They barely roll out new coverage and then leave, and they basically are adding zero value at that stage vs the guys at JP / Barclays / Evercore ISI / RBC etc that have been covering the same companies for 7-15 years.
Research at GS basically only exists to support banking ops, whereas other firms take their ER product much more seriously.
Oh yeah, and the $20 oil call isn't helping them either.
That report cracked me up. I find a bunch of their research was done just to create a headline for Bloomberg instead of actually trying to add value.
This. GS has a different business model where ER primarily exists to support banking. You talk the party line, don't rock the boat, and everyone gets paid.
As for II, it's a game for sure, but it correlates highly with broker votes (read: commissions). Higher rankings also theoretically means more banking business (e.g. sponsors want to have top analysts cover their IPOs). There are also different approaches to getting ranked because clients all value different things. Some analysts are corporate access machines, some are deep in the winds/have great models, while others might be higher level/PM-focused. Your platform also matters. It's going to be easier to get ranked at a bulge bracket than a middle-market/boutique because you have a sales force to hawk your product.
Goldman research hasn't been relevant since...ever
Seriously I think GS ER is absolute crap. I have access to a few of the research houses and the worst by far is GS.
Goldman ER (Originally Posted: 05/03/2007)
May be having an interview with GS Equity Research. Does anyone know the strongest research teams at Goldman?
Also, how does the Goldman research stack up to other firms?
pretty shit - in the UK that is - It's probably 8th behind the bulge and some strong boutiques.
I'm in NYC - not the UK (thankfully)
Anyone have any knowledge of GS equity research in NYC?
Anthony Noto...Media/Tech
Anthony Noto...Media/Tech
food/beverages - lucy cheng? she's pretty top notch
Overall their research isn't that highly regarded. WSJ just came out with their recent research analyst rankings - GS wasn't that high on the list, all things considered.
Nonetheless, don't hesitate to grab any opportunity you might be offered. It's Goldman.
the problem with GS ER is that you have a shit research team and probably just as crap sales guys. I may have an offer here, but I'm pretty hesitant b/c they're so crap.
Goldman doesn't care about their research anymore, like many of the BB, so while you are an analyst at Goldman, the IM world wont respect you as you would think a goldman analyst would be, down the road. But its not a bad gig, know a few guys there.
the best places for research are the independent house s - the hedge funds have given the finger to most of the bulge and all the money is being made in start ups. It'll probably end up that a BB will buy out these independents at some point so who knows what could happen there.
The biggest determinant of the quality of a franchise is the person, not the house. That’s why analysts get paid big bucks to move – in the hope that they bring their franchises with them. The only place that I feel the house plays a slightly bigger role in the franchise is UBS (and that’s not to say that they are better or worse).
The question should really be how you approach the decision of who to work under to get the best training as an analyst. This is not straightforward – the best analyst may not be the best teacher (like the best tennis players do not make the best coaches). If you only have one offer then suck it and see – you’ll get better training and experience than you would get sitting at home. If you are weighing up different options, then your decision should come down to which analyst you feel most comfortable with.
GS Equity Research Management Analyst Position (Originally Posted: 06/28/2009)
Has anybody heard of this position at GS? It seems to entail a lot of bitch work for the firm's directors of research. Is this feeling true? Do you get to work with any divisions outside of ER? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Please see the job posting below. Thanks.
Summary Global Investment Research forms a vital link between the Firm's Business Divisions by providing analyses that significantly impact markets, companies, industries, economies and currencies worldwide in three main areas: economics, portfolio strategy, and securities analysis. Our research analysts are some of the most highly regarded on the Street and earn their reputation by: rigorously analyzing the performance of companies and industry sectors; developing key investment ideas that are used by buy-side firms to structure portfolios and the Goldman Sachs sales force in their interaction with investing clients; providing valuable insight on market-moving events to the firm's traders and their clients and playing a key role in advising corporate clients on financing and M&A opportunities.
Principal Responsibilities • Work closely with the Directors of Research and Investment Review Committee to drive tactical research ideas as well as thematic cross sector industry pieces. • Leverage proprietary databases to draw investment conclusions from departmental company data. • Interpret and help develop single stock/sector recommendations based on market, economic and political events • Participate in Investment Review Committees on a selected basis. Help create and track stock selection strategies. • Draft meaningful sections of cross departmental reports and develop presentations for marketing use to external and internal clients. • Position relates to North American and Latin American equities.
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I have never heard of this position, but I know the chinese walls at Goldman are high, so you'll likely have little interaction outside of ER and your sales coverage. In terms of the position itself, it looks like it may be good. Ask if the job actually publishes, and how it relates to the buyside. If you have nothing else, this could be a good foot in the door to an associate position for ER.
Got accepted GS ER Full-Time ! What shall I do ? Good enough for M7 ? (Originally Posted: 10/15/2016)
I have been accepted for equity research at Goldman Sachs.
However, due to incoming regulations and changes I am not sure about the job security in ER.
I would only stay there for the short term , because I would like to do an MBA down the line.
Is M7 feasible with everything else in line, and what is the likelihood of job cuts at GS ER in the near term ?
First world problems... Congrats!
Yes there is job security in ER as you need ER even in economic downturns and yes, ER at GS is very feasable for M7.
Since you seem to have experience in the field , is it common to switch to L/S hedge funds before respectively after the MBA experience ?
You should be fine. GS ER doesn't strike me as the next place to die.
Which office?
NYC
If I were you I would focus on actually starting and doing a good job at GS. Don't take your eye off the ball...
I value your comment, and I am aware that my questions can be considered as daft, since I have not worked one full day yet.
However, if you could comment a bit on exit opps specifically in terms of B-School L/S HF , would be highly appreciated.
B-school: you would be eligible for a M7 school but it's not an automatic. The top programs are flooded by applications from people with excellent resumes. I don't think ER experience necessarily makes you a shoe-in for a top program so don't take this for granted.
Hedge funds: yes you would be a good candidate. However, these positions are always competitive.
In either case, how you perform at your job and the experience you get from that is really important. Having GS or another big name on your resume is great, but it only distinguishes your resume from the pile, it doesn't guarantee anything.
Assuming you do a solid job for 3-4 years, it's all good.
Dude nice! A finance director I worked with at a F500 internship was at GSER for eight years and said plenty of people exit to hedge funds. If you get into one Id reckon it'd make you a lot more competitive for bschool.
Don't worry at all. I deal with them often - good franchise, they produce good work, they work hard but you'll learn a lot, and you definitely don't need to worry about it disappearing within the next 3 years. Go for it.
You will be fine. Don't worry too much about your b-school if it is only happening in 3-5 years from now. I am at an M7 - you would be surprised how many people come from shops I have never heard of.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you do know that GS is ranked 14th or 16th on II? Even Cowen has more ranked analysts than GIR. GS says they have a "non-II" model which is a another way to say "our trading arm is the strongest so we don't feel the need to raise our budget to get better research talent".
For your reference, for ER you want to be at JPM, Evercore ISI, MS, or BAML. You will be at a disadvantage to bankers for M7 btw.
Appreciate that insight a lot, thanks !
Dude, II is a joke. GS one of many shops that does not lobby for II votes.
Broker votes are all that matter and GS is top 5 at most hedge and mutual funds.
GS doesn't care about II.
Thanks for all the input guys , was all very helpful.
sign with GS, your exits will be solid. Go in there and learn how to do all complex model structures: LBO, SOTP, M&A, segmentation, install base forward, macro model, etc... you will be more than a shoe in for HFs..
And GS does not have a II model, they hire analysts to lead up specific sectors.. not all sectors are profitable. BAML, others have a more holistic model, which is why they are all the way up in the rankings... note this does not mean they are the best. GS tailors to HFs, that is good because all the work you do is in some way actionable and a pitch, which is what you would be doing at a HF anyway....
GS Equity Research (Originally Posted: 02/16/2011)
How much does a first year equity research analyst make at GS or any other BB? signing bonus, salary, and bonus. this kid is telling me he is making 85k salary as a first year out of undergrad and i refuse to believe him.
I would say $85 all in is indeed within the realm of belief.
The realm of belief?
I think $85K all in is not too far off a first yr.
and would that be total compensation for the first year?
why is that impossible to believe weezy f baby? thats all-in and hes getting taxed out the wazoo if he lives in New York so its not really that much.
I forgot to say "please say the baby"
In London it's around 73k salary + 10k sign on for the first year, so it does sound feasible. This is the same across most bulge brackets and across all FO divisions (IBD, research, sales and trading). Bonuses do differ, though.
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