Got an offer to join a BB but in their SF office. They have people in the group all over the US but they said for the analysts, it's important for them to be together in the office in SF. My dream has always been to end up in NYC. They said maybe they could make an exception for New York but I dont know if I should push them on that. This is like a too good to be true offer for me, but from what I've heard, San Francisco isn't the best place to be right now. Maybe I'm wrong, but i've heard that theres shit and needles and people living in tents everywhere. Every big city is going to have a lot of that but I've heard SF's situation is notoriously bad.
I want to take this offer but I'd appreciate if someone could make moving to SF sound more exciting and appealing. Or if I shouldn't move there please let me know too.
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As someone who did their SA in San Francisco, it’s pretty great man. You will not be living where the ‘problems’ are. Not any different in NYC, if not better, in that regard. SF is unlike any place I’ve ever lived and think it was a great life experience. Only downfall is CoL, but if you were going to NYC you already had to swallow that pill and they are pretty similar lol.
TLDR; Where your life will take place in SF isn’t the same place the headlines are about, so don’t fret.
Go there, get some experience, transfer or lateral to NYC.
I appreciate this, thank you
No problem, would HIGHLY recommend you check out living in the north beach area. Beautiful, fun, away from problems, and close to financial district.
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I lived in SF in four locations over about 3 years. Some are better than others, but overall the general society is very degrading. Trash and homelessness/drugs are pretty much everywhere besides Pacific Heights and most of Mission Bay, where the new GS Warriors arena is.
Will you be in "different neighbourhoods" as a member of the banking elite? Not really. Now if you desire to, you can obviously uber from one 'elite' place to another and not interact with the street level culture. That will get expensive and at the end of the day, you want to keep as much of that paycheck as possible to maximize your computer coin stacks.
The advice here, is absolutely take this, especially if you feel its something that is too good for your profile. This is probably happening because people who have a choice would never work in SF (assuming they are logical human beings).
You also need to live near your office, you're going to be working a lot, you want to get as much knowledge and make as many positive relationships in as little time as possible and PTFO, ideally 1.5-2 years for first stint will set you on good path. So this probably means financial district, which on the street level sucks pretty hard (especially on weekends when regular workers are staying in the burbs). Even most restaurants close in FiDi on the weekends because the trouble they have to go through dealing with the crackies is not worth the reward of the little business from regular people that it would attract. BUT, because you want a 5 minute maximum walk from home to office, man up and do live in a shitbox apartment in FiDi, and work ALL THE TIME for a year and a half.
Make sure you go on a walk (or at least bike) through Tenderloin a few times while you're down there. I actually think its important to see the epicenter with your own eyes, and try to somehow understand it on a human level.
NYC is a great goal, but you should be shooting for remote work. No matter where you are physically, don't forget to maximize how much internet coin you can stack with every paycheck.
I disagree with so much here. To each their own, but it’s not a problem to live 20 min from the office. It’s really not a big deal. There’s other stuff I question or disagree with here, but no need to dig in.
It’s really not as bad as people make it out to be…obviously there’s very shitty parts of SF but these spots are avoidable and there’s some really pleasant areas to spend time in.
If your choice right now is BB offer in SF or nothing, definitely take the offer and not worth it to gamble on trying to get to a different city. Personally really dislike living here, but there are some redeeming qualities at least.
North Beach is a great area to be as others have said if you're working in FiDi.
I was born and raised on the West Coast, and to me, SF/Bay Area offers the best of both the Pacific Northwest and SoCal. The proximity to shockingly beautiful nature (giant redwoods, Yosemite, Pebble Beach, other beaches), a multitude of world-class outdoor activities nearby (biking on Mt Tam, skiing at Tahoe), and a pretty good restaurant and bar scene with excellent walkability has given me excellent QOL.
Yeah it's dirty in some places in the city but I agree that it's totally avoidable, and it is definitely NOT worse than NYC.
As someone who grew up in a city very close to SF (30 minutes away), I won't lie to you, the city is overhyped and quite honestly not all of that. Its shine fades as soon as you see shit on the sidewalk right next to the homeless guy who just overdosed on heroin or the homeless lady popping a squat right outside your house. Or when you have a Palestine/communism/Fidel Castro protest in the financial district blocking all traffic. But I do have to say, the food is amazing. Also, housing is a pain in the ass, when I was growing up my parents were very well off, but you would never be able to tell due to the crazy cost of living. I'm not saying this so you won't accept your offer, but just as a warning on what to expect. Forget about owning a car either. If there are any Bay Area people here though...fuck SI and go Padres.
First and foremost, congrats on the offer. It sounds like an unbelievable one and I hope you are psyched.
Chiming in here on the positives and negatives Im familiar with.
From what I understand, SF has a horrendous homelessness problem. My roommate travels there regularly for work and he says its the worst out of any city he has ever been to. Lots of drug addicts and sometimes you will be unfortunate enough to encounter a dead person on your walk to work. It has happened to some of my friends. I think (and Idk if Ive ever said this before) what you're hearing from the press regarding the tents and needles is pretty spot on.
Another drawback is the rent, which you already know about. My God is it expensive, with very few ways of reducing your rent price (even with multiple roommates it is still not inexpensive).
On the plus side, the food scene is unreal in San Fran, with so many Michelin star restaurants you would have a hard time hitting them all in a year, unless you went to one literally every weekend. So many other fire restaurants without Michelin stars as well.
Lastly, and maybe most importantly, every city but NYC gets shit on here at WSO. Actually, maybe even NYC gets a bad rap. At the end of the day, you got a sick offer in one of the biggest banking cities in the US, so be hyped about it and try and make it work. Unless you are comparing it with another solid offer from NYC or another T2/T3 city, it sounds like it is time to ignore the negatives of San Fran and focus on the positives.
Finally, if you hate it, you can always try to switch offices internally or shop around for a different offer citing location as your primary reason for jumping ship. No one can knock you for that.
This is super helpful, thank you. I am very psyched about the offer and feel like it would be stupid to decline.
Agree with most everything you said. The homelessness issue is really only a problem in the FiDi/Union Square/Tenderloin/SoMa so it makes sense you have heard of your friends experiencing the bodies on the way to work . It's kinda bad in the Mission but it is improving.
Very little to almost no homeless in Marina, Russian Hill, Telegraph Hill, Pac Heights/Noe, which is where most of the nightlife is. The city looks way better now than it did in peak COVID.
Dang that's crazy re: your friends' stories about the homeless problem. I lived in SF for 3 years pre-COVID and 4+ years in Denver and I would say the homeless problem is worse in Denver. In Denver there are a lot of what we called "HBCs" homeless by choice and these are some of the most entitled and terrible human beings in existence. They are rather aggressive/hostile when approaching you/asking you for money and will say snide and rude things to your face when you try to ignore them. In 3 years of SF, I only saw feces on the ground once and no corpses. Also, wasn't approached half as much as in Denver.
lmao what's up with the SI hate. Almost everyone I know hates SI, but the kids I've met at school have been chill.
"Entitled little shits" just about sums them up. They are by far the most annoying people I have ever come across.
How much truth is there to people actually taking a good old fashioned shit on the street in broad daylight. It’s funny but absurd and scary to read if this regularly happens and not a one-off event
I live in SF and there hasn't been a single day in the past 6 months that I didn't see human fece on the sidewalk at some point during the day
If the offer really is that good, then take it.
I always wanted to live in both NYC and SF. They way the cookie crumbled it was SF first. Wish it had been NYC first then SF because Cali living is soooo easy. Usually amazing weather, wine country, Tahoe and other great activities are fairly easily accessible. NYC is still the best imo, but SF has a lot of great qualities.
The girls and vibes are much lower than NYC though.
Forgot to mention weather in my original reply, but holllllllyyyy shit is this a big one. Case in point, it is February 10th, and here in the Marina I am working on my rooftop in shorts/tshirt in 75deg F weather. It hardly ever gets hotter than 85, and rarely colder than 50. *Chef's kiss*
Thank you for adding this color! I was going to go on for a bit about how amazing SF weather was but figured anyone who hasn't been would throw MS at me. Most tourists come during July-August which are usually the only heavy foggy and cold months. Furthermore, the fog will burn off by around 2pm. Otherwise it really is like 64 and sunny everyday :)
Dating scene requirements:
- she wants to go on an international trip every weekend
- she wants to bring her boyfriend
- goes by she/they
Good if you like asian women
who are super liberal
San Francisco is a shit city and in constant decline.
Goodluck.
I'm from Spain and moved to SF 3 years ago. I live in the suburbs in a mainly white upper class city, but I spend quite some time in the city.
Pros:
- Surf is great (the main reason I'm still here)
- Weather is generaly good and mild. No hot summers and no cold winters although the fog can get annoying, especially in summer.
- Food is really good
- Really nice sightseeing places
- If you have a car, you have dozens of places to go for weekend or one day trips. From mountains (Tahoe, Yosemite) to beaches (Monterey, Santa Cruz...) to small towns (Carmel by the Sea, Capitola...)
Cons:
- Girls are literally dogshit. If you ever see an 8 here, it's a 4 in NYC and a 5.5 everywhere else
- Most clubs close at 2. There are some "afters" from 2 to 4, but not many
- Clown town. Lot's of blue hair, crazy genders and entitled nerds that get triggered if you don't call them by their correct pronoun. I just called them by the pronoun mother nature gave them, fuck them all.
- Most of the city is dirty as hell; even if you live in the nice neighbourhoods
- Very expensive in general, especially rent and groceries
- Drug addicts and crazy homeless people all around. There's more in downtown, but you see them pretty much everywhere
My recommendation: the "whiter" the neighbourhood (including asians), the better. It's just statistics, not racism. Follow the science. If you live in one of the safer neighbourhoods, you will still see the problems discussed above but less frequently.
Cuantas veces te han llamado Latinx? Y te utilizan como ejemplo de los amigos ''diversos y inclusivos''?
Trabajo en otra ciudad y siempre soy el wey que escogen para actividades de diversidad
Jajajaj por suerte ninguna. Soy rubio y de piel clara y todos mis co-workers somos de España.
El día que me llamen Latinx les escupo en la cara.
I've lived in both SF and NYC and they are very different but I loved SF and would 100% move back if I felt I could stomach the COL. Moved there right after college and had some of the best years of my life. It's really a great city, but yes it has downsides like any other place.
To anyone calling it dirty or pointing to the homelessness... trust me NYC is just as bad or worse. I like NYC but it's not this mecca that people make it out to be.
NYC is much the same with shit, needles, and homeless everywhere, it's just spread out more and not as concentrated as in SF so it's just less noticeable in NYC.
As someone who lives in SF, I agree with almost every point but only add that every problem is magnified because geographically its actually a small city. Its like 50 square miles compared to NYs 300, and unlike NY where parts of Jersey are essentially part of NY there are other cities in the Bay that are pretty far and separate by nature. Its not one big blob, so you see way more homeless even if the number per capita is less or the same as NY. I thought NY was magical when I visited my banks branch there and I realized after that I only spent time in Midtown so I thought it was sick, vs. SF its all blended together.
In terms of dating SF is dogshit (on top of the pile of human shit you'll see on a daily basis). You'll always be one step behind by some startup bro working normal hours and making twice what you make. The 70% male to 30% female ratio doesn't help either.
However SF has great food, is still a big city with tons of amenities, and if you're the outdoors type there's a plethora of places to go to. But on a day to day basis even the unproblematic areas have a host of problems you don't really see in other large cities.
Assuming this is your best offer in the near-term pipeline, just take it. I'm not the biggest SF fan as I've expressed before but having that budge name and experience for a year could open up opportunities in NY you may not have now. Whether it's internal mobility or lateraling or doing buyside/industry recruiting, this role will arguably set you up for better odds for landing an NYC job (again, if this is all you have in the near-term pipeline)
If you move there could be more food options in SF so you can chill out on that Indian buffet.
Thank god, otherwise I'd be contributing to the shit on the street problem
I would take it if it's the best offer. There's always mobility down the road if you want to switch groups or exit into buy side, etc.
SF is not comparable to NY (personal opinion), but it's still a great city if you live in the better neighborhoods and the deal exposure (assuming TMT coverage group) will be worth it.
What are your goals? If it is a notable BB, good desk, good position, etc., then I don't see why you couldn't internally lateral to a New York office or leverage the experience after a couple of years and go to NYC. SF isn't really all that bad at all. Sure there are areas that are less than desirable and the South Park 'smelling your own farts' / holier than thou people exist in some parts, but--frankly--manhattan has those types as well.
In terms of a bad situation, do you mean the image problem that's been in the news? CoL? COVID? Maybe a combo of those?
But... if you really have your heart set on NYC (I can understand, lived here all my life before moving to Westchester NY), then perhaps the route to go is showing how you'd add value to that office (e.g., your business connections are in NYC, could 'plug-and-play' into the role without having to move/do a ton of life-admin) and talk up how you fit with the culture there or something beyond 'I just want to be in NYC'.
Just my two cents.
I’ve been living in SF for 17 years. Couple tips:
I worked in SF briefly, and have traveled there frequently.
Hope this gives you some color. SF is a great city, but like any, you have to know her secrets before you can really have some fun.
Fuck... I looked at NEMA but given its proximity to the Tenderloin and some of the homeless spillover there being worse compared to other areas a little further out, I passed on it. The building also had terrible reviews on Google and isn't rent-controlled, which is meaningful right now as the sentiment seems to be that the housing pricing in SF at the moment is a "steal" relative to what it was pre-Covid and throughout the first half of 2020. Maybe it would have been worth it though given the social easing you mentioned.
Fwiw, I think any of the new buildings up will have that vibe. Lots of young high earners in one place… happens in nyc all the time.
nobody is hunting in Marin or Lamorinda unless you're hunting for late 30s to early 40s MILFs.
Make some friends at St. Mary's. :)
Honestly, idk what people are bench-marking to when they talk about SFs social problems. I'm in DC and have seen 2 dead bodies in two years of living here (one in Downtown, one in another "hip" part of town where many young people go out). Violence, homelessness, etc. are huge problems in every major city right now. The big, liberal cities, where the banks are located, do have an especially bad problem because they've instituted policies that shy away from punishing degeneracy to deter it, but the idea that you don't have to deal with shit shows in NYC, DC, LA, etc. is a total myth. Have you been reading the headlines about what's going on in the Subways of NYC lately? The entire Mid-Atlantic is rat infested too. Grass in always greener.
+1
Moved to SF recently for work and the headlines had me unnerved before moving. I've only been here for ~6 months but in that time it seems the media, social media and podcasts like All-In have over-exaggerated how bad things are in SF relative to other large cities. I lived in plenty of large cities and what I've seen so far is not unique to SF. The COL also isn't different from NYC. You can argue whether you get more of an experience in NYC than SF for the price but that's going to vary from person to person. My experience has also been in a covid-stricken SF, so I imagine the city can only improve from what I've seen of it so far but I need to reiterate it's not any worse than the likes of NYC, Boston, Chicago or LA at the moment.
DC has been known for having a serious crime problem for a while. You just don't here about it on this site because the finance scene in DC is extremely limited compared to SF/LA/NYC/CHI.
SF fucking sucks. Had to move up here from SoCal and it's such a shitty place. People are fucking weird, city is disgusting, and liberals are everywhere
Grew up in NYC area but have family in the Bay Area. The amount of innovation happening in SF is very fun to see. I love San Jose/Oakland suburbs honestly (outside of the major cities). One of my relatives has a beautiful home on one of those "hills" with a ridiculous view of the Bay (I think they brought it for under <$2-3M which was a steal at the time). They're fairly well to do but not "filthy rich." If you can move to SF and get to live 30 mins - 1 hour out of the city, it's a great place to be. I would hate living in SF though.
I may hate Silicon Valley culture but the majority of startups that really inspire/impress me are from there. As do many that make my eyes roll. It's a double edge sword but creates as much opportunity I would argue as NYC. Even in finance.
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