How good are these for undergrad?

Everyone knows about how good at placements targets are - how about these non-targets?

Give seperate ratings for S&T/IBD/ and HF and P/E if applicable (I doubt this)
Baruch Macaulay
University of Maryland Smith (Does the Senbet Fund make a difference?)
Carnegie Mellon - Tepper
Carnegie Mellon - Mellon College of Science (Math)
Carnegie Mellon - Bachelors in Computational Finance

Thanks!

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Comments (28)

Mar 22, 2011 - 2:20pm

They all suck pretty badly.

Don't know about placements, I assume they're terrible.

I can almost guarantee you than no one from those schools goes directly to PE.

Here are my ratings from 0 to 10, where 0 is basically the same as not going to college at all and 10 is Harvard.
Baruch Macaulay - IBD: 1/10, S&T: 1/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
University of Maryland Smith - IBD: 0/10, S&T: 0/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Tepper - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 2/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Mellon College of Science (Math) - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Bachelors in Computational Finance - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10

Mar 22, 2011 - 2:24pm
dukeofduke:
They all suck pretty badly.

Don't know about placements, I assume they're terrible.

I can almost guarantee you than no one from those schools goes directly to PE.

Here are my ratings from 0 to 10, where 0 is basically the same as not going to college at all and 10 is Harvard.
Baruch Macaulay - IBD: 1/10, S&T: 1/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
University of Maryland Smith - IBD: 0/10, S&T: 0/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Tepper - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 2/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Mellon College of Science (Math) - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Bachelors in Computational Finance - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10


...Any other thoughts? I can't help but doubt these rankings, since I know that the BSCF at CMU has 100% placement...
Mar 22, 2011 - 3:04pm
dukeofduke:
They all suck pretty badly.

Don't know about placements, I assume they're terrible.

I can almost guarantee you than no one from those schools goes directly to PE.

Here are my ratings from 0 to 10, where 0 is basically the same as not going to college at all and 10 is Harvard.
Baruch Macaulay - IBD: 1/10, S&T: 1/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
University of Maryland Smith - IBD: 0/10, S&T: 0/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Tepper - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 2/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Mellon College of Science (Math) - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Bachelors in Computational Finance - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10

False on the PE comment, PE is entirely networking unless you are talking about a MF straight out of Wharton or Harvard. All MM firms that hire out of UG do so on an as need basis; so being lucky, having connections and making a great impression will carry more weigth than where you went to school. After working here for 10 months i can tell you the most important asset one can have at a low level in PE is not pissing anyone off and not fucking up...harder than it sounds.

Mar 22, 2011 - 3:15pm
HFFBALLfan123:
dukeofduke:
They all suck pretty badly.

Don't know about placements, I assume they're terrible.

I can almost guarantee you than no one from those schools goes directly to PE.

Here are my ratings from 0 to 10, where 0 is basically the same as not going to college at all and 10 is Harvard.
Baruch Macaulay - IBD: 1/10, S&T: 1/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
University of Maryland Smith - IBD: 0/10, S&T: 0/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Tepper - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 2/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Mellon College of Science (Math) - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10
Carnegie Mellon - Bachelors in Computational Finance - IBD: 2/10, S&T: 3/10, HF: 0/10, PE: 0/10

False on the PE comment, PE is entirely networking unless you are talking about a MF straight out of Wharton or Harvard. All MM firms that hire out of UG do so on an as need basis; so being lucky, having connections and making a great impression will carry more weigth than where you went to school. After working here for 10 months i can tell you the most important asset one can have at a low level in PE is not pissing anyone off and not fucking up...harder than it sounds.


In your opinion, true on everything else?
Mar 22, 2011 - 2:26pm

Yea CMU's Comp Fin program is insane and does well with trading as does the Math option you listed above.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
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Mar 22, 2011 - 2:43pm

for trading, pure Maths will trump business related shit most of the time.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
Mar 22, 2011 - 2:48pm
euroazn:
Then why is the maximum salary higher for Tepper? :S

Maximum salary? I'm telling you, as will 90% of the traders that you talk to, that a pure math background is USUALLY the best way to get in the door. As for IB, I have met some CMU grads in banking (most were at PNC for obvious reasons but you can get other places as well).
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
Mar 22, 2011 - 4:56pm
euroazn:
I'm not arguing that, I'm just trying to comprehend these figures:
http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/Students/gps1/explore/survey/p…
http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/Students/gps1/explore/survey/p…

Am I misinterpreting this, or are tepper students getting as many trading offers as math sci?

You should be looking at the mean and median, not the maximum. Outliers are meaningless. Looking at that, it looks like per capita placement into trading roles is about equal between the two degrees.

Mar 22, 2011 - 6:09pm
drexelalum11:
euroazn:
I'm not arguing that, I'm just trying to comprehend these figures:
http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/Students/gps1/explore/survey/p…
http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/Students/gps1/explore/survey/p…

Am I misinterpreting this, or are tepper students getting as many trading offers as math sci?

You should be looking at the mean and median, not the maximum. Outliers are meaningless. Looking at that, it looks like per capita placement into trading roles is about equal between the two degrees.


That is basically what I was getting at - same averages, but more upside to business.

I want to do the Bachelors of Computational Finance, but one applies their sophomore year in college (they only take 10 students.) If I did go to CMU, what major would you choose - business or mathematics?

Mar 22, 2011 - 4:29pm

CMU's Computational Finance program is amazing. It's not particularly well known, but gets great recruiting and is incredibly interesting. I wish I had known about it when applying to undergrads. If you can get in, I would take it over many target schools.

CMU is also very well known for math (and ComSci). While you won't get the recruiting of the computational finance major, nobody will doubt your intelligence.

Tepper is kind of mediocre relative to the above. It's not bad by any means; in fact, I have been impressed by the Tepper grads I have met. It is just not a nationally recognized program like CMU's more quant majors.

Baruch has location going for it, and the associated (albeit not huge) alum presence on the street.

UMd I would generally avoid unless you are shooting for DC.

Mar 22, 2011 - 4:43pm

I applied and got in to CMU's MSCF. That is a very highly regarded program. I was not aware of a BSCF, but I imagine it must also be excellent.

-MBP
Mar 22, 2011 - 6:41pm

Give seperate ratings for S&T/IBD/ and HF and P/E if applicable (I doubt this)

Baruch Macaulay / UMD: if you are close to 4.0, you might get a couple of interviews. Very rare to see people from these schools getting the top jobs.

(Does the Senbet Fund make a difference?): the alumni network is valuable, but otherwise no. Small sample size here, but the people I know who worked at Senbet Fund tried for banking, almost all failed, and ended up in accounting.

Carnegie Mellon - Tepper: don't know anybody from here, not sure.

Carnegie Mellon math / CF: good. If you do well in either of these programs, your options open up tremendously, particularly in the direction of quant finance. Still not core "target" programs for most finance-related jobs. The few CMU kids I know went on to do high tech (i.e. Google/Microsoft) instead of finance. My impression is that recruitment is a bit skewed in that direction.

Mar 22, 2011 - 6:50pm

I remember quite a bit of trading recruitment at CMU. DRW/Jump/SIG/etc.

CompFi>Math>Business

If you don't want to risk CompFi, I'd go ECE or CS. (Yes, it's possible to transfer or do a double in one of these. Adding on Business as a double major is pretty easy.)

Mar 26, 2011 - 4:44pm
euroazn:
Thanks for your responses! It seems that if I want to do S&T, CMU is a clear winner. Are they all at about the same level in terms of IBD? More opinions always welcomed!

I'd do CMU Computational Finance, if you think you can get a good GPA. CMU is unfortunately a semi-target, so having that quant aspect is a helpful in answering the question of whether you are smart enough in recruiters' minds.

Likewise, it is computational FINANCE, so you don't have to sell them on why you want banking.

CMU is definitely a tier above Baruch and UMD. Baruch could get you slightly better networking, but I am sure CMU has plenty of alums on the street. The only way Baruch could give you an edge is through a school year internship, but it probably would not be particularly substantial...you could likely get similar experience at PWM branch around CMU.

Nov 22, 2011 - 3:20am

I can't speak for the other programs/universities but I do know for a fact that UMD's senbet fund does deliver results.

Of course like many target programs, job opportunities for senbet fund members are still heavily dependent on networking but the differentiating factor lies in two key aspects:

1) real life/hands on experience through managing a university's endowment fund(going through a tedious pitching process that includes industry research, valuation (DCF,comps) and strong presentation skills + a realistic interview process on par with most bulge braket banks)

2) strong alumni network that knows what it takes to get into the fund and are 9.99x/10 more than willing to push you straight on to their VPs or above to get past that HR hurdle and straight into a superday

While it may be true that not all fund members have landed IBD/front office type jobs, this does not mean that these members were incapable. Many were simply not interested and I say this from firsthand experience speaking with them.

And if it really comes down to numbers, let me lay down the facts for you nice and easy:

7/12 members landed internships/full-time offers in bulge brackets last year alone.

PS

When making college decisions, I was accepted into both CMU (Tepper) and UMD. I chose UMD for financial reasons and made the best out of my experience, the senbet fund being one of them.

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