HOW IT SHOULD BE
I swear if I ever own my own company I am not asking if people are gay or straight, black, white or Hispanic I'm hiring whoever the fuck is the best. This diversity thing is getting out of hand. Like who cares if your board is 10 white straight guys or 10 Asian women just choose the best option. Crazy that this is a hot tale nowadays.
Edit:
I also want to add I am considered a diversity candidate cause my i am from Latin America but I am literally white and am fortunate enough to have successful parents that pay for my college etc. the fact I got diversity internships and programs over a poor kid who went to public school his entire life and had to grind is ridiculous I don’t understand how you could think otherwise.
Are you trying to say Boeing's board wouldn't be better served if a seasoned aerospace white male engineer was replaced with a gender studies UCLA MBA black female?
If there are 10 analyst spots at JPM in our hypothetical hiring scenario. 100 people apply. Lets say of the 100 applicants, 80 are under represented minorities (URM - black/brown/female) and 20 are Indian. Assuming no initial distinction in the distribution of talent from that initial set of 100 applicants (meaning, a 50th percentile URM candidate and a 50th percentile Indian candidate would be of roughly equal value to JPM), you would expect 8 URM hires and 2 Indian hires. You have hopefully hired the top 10 percentile of applicants.
But!, what if JPM mandates you hire 5 URM and 5 Indian candidates...now you are getting (hopefully) the top ~6 percentile of URM applicants and the top 25 percentile of Indian applicants.
Remember!! We assumed the initial 100 applicants didn't skew in their distribution of talent across race. Meaning, of the 100 applicants, we would only expect 2 to be Indian since they make up 20/100 applicants. But now, we have hired 5! Hmm what kind of environment does this create???
Now, a couple years down the road, what kind of complaints would you expect to hear? I have some:
"URM bankers are paid more than Indian bankers!!"
"URM bankers are getting promoted faster than Indian bankers!"
"There are no Indian leaders in finance! All URMs!"
Well, I think you guys get it. It's obvious what the solution should be right?
HIRE MORE INDIANS!!
Let me guess... you're indian.
I love how you put Brown and Indian as two separate groups
Ive always found the media doing that so asinine.
as long as y’all put on deodorant
Rly good reference overall. For those of you that completely missed it, the Indian grouping or demographic in this example is just a placeholder for any other grouping. In general, the stats about compensation and other factors that signal ‘inequality’ can be really messed up with some form of quota or bias towards certain groups.
Haha to start your MBA case with “Boeing board”. History would tell us the UCLA lady prolly is the right choice. Maybe should have chosen a company where a non-diverse leadership team has been a shit show.
Step 1: own your own company
How would you address nepotism? On the one hand it mitigates risk, by having foreknowledge of the candidate. On the other hand, it often leads to subpar performance (which is the premium paid for the risk of complete failure being mitigated).
I don’t think those necessarily equate
We'll see, there are 2 court cases being considered by the Supreme Court right now on affirmative action. Several conservative justices have said they want to ban affirmative action so hopefully they get on the docket -- if they do, they're almost guaranteed to kill it.
Amen. Just because something crappy happened to a group 150yrs ago doesn't mean they get a free pass for the rest of time, what an asinine idea that just breeds more anger & divisiveness
I don't agree or disagree. What are you trying to solve for? Fairness? Well the crappy stuff that happened 150 yrs ago has impacted the start in life people have today (and I totally recognize the difference between lower social class and race but, folks are using it as a proxy). Higher performance (even though it affects fairness based on merit) - it's been shown that diversity, even if that includes "not as qualified" employees, leads to better performance.
The direct unfairness to you - unfortunately at some point you just have to accept it. At one point people paid for slaves, invested in infrastructure for those slaves, etc., and a year later they were freed - is that fair for the person who just paid for them, per the legal system? No. Should we as a society "take it back?" No. Even though sure, certain people are negatively affected, it is viewed that getting some diversity in these organizations today will serve a much greater good for a long period of time. Again, I don't know if right or wrong, but it just is
There expected to announce if they’ll have the case any day now.
Thomas and Alito are absolutely going to vote to grant a trial for the cases. Roberts would ideologically but may not out of respect for precedent, though he’s been iffy on that stuff lately. Don’t know much about the three Trump appointees but, it only takes 4 to hear the case.
Well, you should have diversity when it matters. For example, if we're talking about the board of Target or WalMart, it's important to get ideas from backgrounds representative of your customers: men, women, various minorities, etc.
However, if you're a company that makes nuts and bolts and widgets, then please by all means get the best people on the board with absolutely zero consideration for their race/gender.
Whether you like it or not it’s here to stay.
Focus on what you can control and keep pushing. I’m gonna get rich regardless.
I don’t see why the private market is in charge of distributing ‘equity.’ A firm will naturally maximize profits for its shareholders. If it promotes diversity efforts, it’s often just to appease stakeholders… to maximize profits and thus eventually appease shareholders. Any effort a company has in diversity is in some way or in other a mix of meritocracy and thus creates an imperfect meritocracy.
I’d much rather a firm donate to a charity that has only one goal: increase opportunity and upwards mobility. They will not have to maximize profits and instead can focus purely on doing good in the world.
Hi,
It is 2021, diverse firms out perform non-diverse ones. Heard of this google company? Maybe this Microsoft? How about Pepsi, I think they still in business.
You are fully correct firms who push the process when it shows but it shows results tons now.
Firms that simply surpass background and look at merit will become successful. I’d argue that the companies that you listed are successful because they look at all candidates as the same. Where one company likely traditionally may have given improper weight to some the managers son or a neighbor or some other ‘nepotistic’ connection, these companies just looked at a candidates’ merit regardless of who they new etc. There’s a difference between being a diverse company and a company that gives diversity candidates a boost.
WhEn YoU'rE uSeD tO pRiViLeGe, eQuAliTy fEeLs liKe oPpReSsIoN. Insert some other NPC phrase by leftists that they try to program the bots with next. I agree with you 100% OP. I don't get why I as a straight indian male (or any other non diversity applicant) should get punished for being the wrong skin color or sex or not liking dick up my ass. I wasn't responsible for what happened 50-100 years. Why are we punishing current generation for sins their grandparents committed? It is complete lunacy. And yes, if you give special advantages to certain groups by default you are punishing the remaining ones. Spare me with the equality nonsense. Maybe you could make an argument to give programs for blacks and hispanics (still am against them) but for girls and LGBTQ?
How are you oppressed as a rich ass white girl? Why should you get a benefit just because you like getting balls deep in dudes or think you're a girl despite having a massive schlong? These are all immutable characteristics. It is ironic that the "solution" for past discrimination is just discriminating even more lol. Feminists always talk about equality and men and women being treated equally. If they want to be respected and treated on a level playing field, shouldn't they be advocating against girls getting special privileges in recruiting? They don't because it was never about equality. They want an unfair advantage. They want all the reward without any of the risk.
Seeing some of the posts about how much of IB SA classes go to diversity before even target non diversity recruiting takes place, it's practically impossible for non target non diversity to break in. Having been fortunate to get in if I get the chance to interview people, I am going to solely make decisions based on their competency. Even though the system is rigged against non diversity applicants, we can't let it affect us. We have to worry about ourselves and do everything we can control to the best of our ability. No point complaining about the advantages that others are afforded. It won't get us anywhere.
Keep your head down, work as hard as possible, and get as rich as you can. All you can do to avoid the bs in society. Makes me sad these days that if anyone articulated your viewpoint OP, they'd be labeled as a wHiTe sUpReMaCiSt, rAcIsT, tRaNsPhObIC, mISoGyNisT. What times we live in. All logic and reason seems to be lost in favor of being "woke" and fitting into the demands of a vocal minority.
I think the fault in your logic is that you've been taught and told that your version of meritocracy is 100% correlated with deserving to get the job. Highest SAT score should get into the school. Highest GPA should land the job interview, etc. There's no actual rule that says that. There's no rule that says having the most relevant extra curricular experience (internships, investment clubs) means you should land an IB job. So start there.
Places do naturally want diversity. Think about within an IB class - if everyone is just an excel monkey, it actually isn't that great. You need some people with soft skills. You need some people who are resourceful, etc. Companies have determined they need diversity of mind, colors, etc. You kind of just have to accept it rather than complain about it. I'm not a "life is unfair so deal with it" kind of guy, but it does happen all the time in business. You started mining crypto and next year, government outlaws it - WTF. Government has okay'd legal marijuana so you invested dollars, started a business, and then the next administration outlaws it again - how unfair!
Maybe... you were second generation immigrant with parents who never went to college and never heard of investment banking so you didn't know that studying econ / finance would lead to good career opportunities, how unlucky, unless we can start making changes to try to make this more fair...
The answer isn't always the fairest or the most correct (i.e. "rich ass white girl with PE dad"), but it is opening the door for people who didn't think this was an option. You may not appreciate how difficult certain industries (like finance) were 10 years ago for well-adjusted women (including your example of "rich ass white girl") who wanted to enter the industry - no women in senior level positions, co-workers who looked at them as "weak" because they were women, seniors who looked at them inappropriately, would make inappropriate comments, would give them less technical work (why don't you organize the DD materials while analyst 2 works in the model), etc. You may not realize how recently this happened. It is unfortunate, but it does take diverse employees throughout the ranks of an organization to clear out this misbehavior and bias. I still see women go on mat leave just to see their jobs basically taken from them by the time they come back.
Have I worked with "diverse candidates" who I don't think would have gotten there on merit? Yes. Have I worked with non-diverse candidates who wouldn't have gotten there if it wasn't for their ability to relate to their interviewer by being able to talk about Duke men's basketball? Yes. It happens. You should adjust your expectation regarding that the best work will get you ahead, that the highest scores will get you ahead, etc. Do the best you can, don't be so hard on yourself, don't expect for the fairest distribution of wealth, income, attention, etc.
Precisely why I didn’t get a BB offer.
Clearly putting 'diverse' candidates on an easier track may work in the short term but in the long term their coworkers may be bitter and see them as incompetent diversity hires. So not only does it create conflict but it may actually reduce the amount of diversity.
I think it should be reviewed in a qualitative basis. If you come from an underprivileged background whether it's based on race, income, immigration, etc., you get a brief 20 minute call to explain what was holding you back in life and how you overcame it.
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