How to network with other teams/departments on the floor/bank?
Doing an internship right now in Treasury for a Big 5 Canadian Bank in the Toronto HQ.
Went to the most non target of non targets for undergrad so I was passed up on all S&T and IBD roles. Realised I didn't actually want to do IBD and was interested in it for the clout more than anything (and money). Was never interested in M&A, but markets/S&T, credit/market risk or derivatives pricing/modelling I'm very interested in.
Had good grades so I got into a target school for a Master's in Financial Risk. One year specialization where we do an internship halfway through in between semesters from a preselected list of companies.
All the roles are risk oriented and the super quant ones were taken by those who came from CS Backgrounds in undergrad or pure Math and Stats.
A few rows away from me in the Open Office space is the Treasury Trading team doing Interest Rate Hedging and a bit of buy and hold trading then also swaps + REPO for the bank.
I've literally been told by my MD that the internship is super free reign and I can work on any project I want and he said he's sending me to the IBD Trading Floor for 2 weeks in a month.
In the meantime I want to start networking with the risk traders on my floor but all my other internships were at non-bank companies I gave zero fucks about getting a return offer from so I don't even know where to begin. I'm really social and outgoing but have no idea how to do the nuanced on site networking and asking people to go for lunch / coffee when it's not on LinkedIn or at a networking event but actually at work. One of the other interns I'm with is way too tryhard and overly thankful and I can tell only a day in that he's putting people off.
Do I basically go and talk to the trading rows during market downtime (lunch & post-4pm) and ask to just observe them here and there and try and avoid asking any questions then basically just slowly through osmosis start understanding what they do and pitching ideas and asking non stupid questions? Asking/suggesting if there's any work I could pick up for them as I'm willing to be their absolute bitch and work on my less time sensitive work on weekends and after work if it means I can M-F be more actively engaged with traders.
Mid office isn't a deathblow but if possible I'd like to at least make it to a MO trading desk and ofc if possible an FO desk.
Or am I supposed to go in super gung-ho and try and learn as much as possible and what not.
It's a bit of a clusterfuck so our access to certain drives and databases and files is still getting approved and IT has yet to install Python on my system but I'd definitely be interested in doing some work for the hedging/risk trading team under my Treasury Group so when push comes to shove I could hopefully get a return offer with them or at least a return offer at some bank in a more active role than just being an excel jockey.
Cheers, feels a bit surreal finally making it into a bank even if it's in MO as I had lost hope at one point that I'd ever break in any capacity and now I can see the light at the end of the tunnel with derivatives pricing/modelling being the end game as I'm a fiend for math.
Cheers guys
Easiest way to do is by saying (in person or through email) something like this:
"Hi XX,
Just wanted to reach out and see if you might have time for lunch or coffee at XX time and XX date. I am interested in your area of work, and have some questions for you regarding it."
Don't follow this to the letter. Put it in your own words as much as you can. You also may want to say something say something about wanting to learn more about the area that he/she works in, but that's entirely up to you.
DM me if you have any further questions.
Sounds like S.O.P to me, (y)
Cheers
if you want to join a trading desk (awesome choice btw) then you need to have both immense background knowledge of the market, passion for markets in general, intellectual curiosity, and people who want you to be a part of their team, among other things.
background knowledge is harder than you'd think...because for any market, there are thousands of potential drivers...and as a trader, you need to be familiar with all of them. This is why it takes many years to become a good trader...it just takes a lot of time to learn everything. You can try reading books and analysis articles on daily basis (and, you should) but accept that this is a very long learning process.
passion is something you'll realize you either have or not from the process of learning the backgound info. If you get bored and don't want to read anymore, then you probably don't have the passion required.
you also need to be self motivated...traders don't wait for permission to learn something....they just do it on their own, and then ask for help when they hit a brick wall. A good trader will ask themselves "why" a lot, and keep drilling down until they are satisfied
then you need people on the desk who want you on their team. Thats the tricky part...either you'll mesh with the desk, or you won't. Traders want junior people who are smart and interested....not a kiss ass...not an idiot. They want you to be self motivated. Whenever you have a question (as a student/junior employee), your first instinct should be google, read what you can, and THEN goto a knowledgeable resource and ask them if you still have questions.
I would suggest after learning background of the different types of trading desks (interest rates, mortgages, options, structured products, FX, commodities, credit, etc....eventually you should find products that really interest you (probably more than one). Then goto each of those desks, and ask to just sit with them. Then pay attention during their work day, and when you see something you don't understand, if there is time available, ask about it. Asky why they did (or didn't) do something. Expect that you'll never get a complete answer....but use that answer as a springboard to do more research.
2 weeks is not enough time to even scratch the surface of the trading business...but it is enough time to see if your personality is a match for the personality of the people on the desk....and that is realy what you are after....you want the desk to want you. You don't really have anything to offer right now in terms of technical ability (and you won't for years)...the only thing you can offer is your personality...so make it count.
How to do it? First get a lay of the land...you need to know where each desk sits....trading desks tend to flow together...govt traders usually sit next to swaps traders and mortgage traders...EM traders and FX traders usually aren;t far away...and if you didn;t know....you wouldn't be able to tell where one group of traders ends, and the next begins. Its organized this way because often there are trades done between desks (particularly from the sales perspective)...so everybody sits close together.
So, based on what interestes you (interest rate swaps, mortgages, FX, EM, ect..) find out where they sit....then walk over to the desk, ask for the head of the desk, and then inform the desk head that you are an intern and your supervisor suggested you sit with the desk as part of your rotation. Ask the desk head who they think you should sit with. Go find a chair (make sure its not being used...ask whoever is nearby..preferably a younger person) and then introduce yourself to the person you'll be sitting with. Start by just watching and observing. Then ask a few well educated questions. you should already have read about their business...and i mean, read a lot...so you can ask questions where the asnwer is not easily found with google. You don't want to try to catch a trader is a mistake...your goal is to express interest in what they do, and also for them to like you (but not too much...this is a fine line you are trying to navigate...traders can be very sensitive).
Above all, you should be humble...you know nothing...currently add zero value (in fact, your presence will be a drain on their business)...but maybe they can teach you, and maybe in a few years, you might be able to be a contributing member of their business...maybe..if the stars align.
Thanks for this really good advice.
I've been interested in markets since first year and actually spent an entire 2 years just watching charts and day trading FX and equity derivs on my own personal account before deciding to focus more on school since my grades started to slack as a result but I've remained engaged and passionate; so I know I have the drive. Trading isn't about the money for me; I personally love how it involves a blend of economics, human psychology, math, finance, stats and to ME it's a perfect amalgamation of a lot of my interests.
I am also aware 2 weeks is nothing and that I'm literally a runt who could be distracting and annoying which is why I made this post as I want to go about this in the best way where I can show interest in the right way without being overbearing but also without being a shut-in; for the very reason that like you said, it's a 2 week personality test with a minimum technical/theoretical understanding test, more than anything else.
My interest is definitely in rates trading and rate derivatives.
I know I have what it takes and want to make sure I express and demonstrate the right amount of interest without being overbearing which I can tell one of my peers will be.
Thanks again for this great comment and for your time.
i've traded on a few BB linear rates desks, and i was one of the traders that would take interns to sit with me during the summer rotations. here is what i saw
1) kids that knew absolutely nothing. this is a turn off...i work my ass off, read everyday, obsess about markets..i trade almost 24 hours a day...i have orders working while i'm sleeping and brokers / london/toyko traders call me when me levels get hit and i get filled...and then i wake up and look at markets and trade overnight (sometimes). 100k a day = 25mm/year...and there were days when i would make 100-200k trading overnight....so this was real money. So when an intern sits with me and says that don't know anything, but think trading sounds cool...i'm turned off psychologically and view this person as not worth my time, and a waste of space.
2) kids that think they know everything. they try to ask questions to display their knowledge...bu they are unaware of the nuance that takes place in trading...there are many rules that are good to follow, but you need to know when to break the rules...and they just don't understand that the only solution to "how do you know?" is YEARS of experience. Then when i ask them a question about current markets and current conditions, and ask very specific questions....i get a blank stare...because they were not humble enough to admit that while they may have studied the topic, they don't have practical application knowledge. This was also a huge turnoff.
3) smart kids with a good attitude...these are golden. They take personal responsibility for their education and career. They are both humble but smart, and the know their stuff.
obviously, you want to be #3
You made a comment that you're not in it for the money. This is a bad attitude...erase that from your mind. You are absolutely in it for the money. You have to enjoy what you do...but you must also be driven to maximize profits...or else trading won't be a good fit.
You're actually right, I guess that was ego defense trying to be all idealistic and moralistic especially after I said I only had an inkling to do IBD because of the pay.
However you're right, trading I'm in it for the $$$, the action, the thrill, and because I live and breath markets.
Yeah #3 is ofc the best approach and I hope that just being myself I'll come across as such.
Cheers
OP you're over complicating it - find a hot chick in that team and bang her
that's a good strategy too
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