In other words, would your school plans change if money spent on tuition, etc. wasn't a concern? I'm both interested in crazy personal answers and perhaps please a little advice please on my own situation.
I'm currently a 1st year analyst at the NY office of a Canadian bank (RBC/CIBC/TD). However, I have immigrant parents with graduate degrees (MD, JD) who struggle to understand why I'd choose a career that requires nothing more than my B.S. in Engineering. In fact, they have such a problem with this that they offered to pay for whatever grad school I wanted. I realize how lucky I am to be in this situation, and so while I'm loathe to use 2-4 years of opportunity cost, I feel like this might be too good an offer to turn down. I do like my current job as much as one could given the hours, and my "dream job" would be working in VC/at a startup.
So, what degree would you do, if any? I'm torn between trying to pick among JD/MBA (versatile degree), M. Egr/MBA (the one my gut says go with) or JD/M. Egr (BC what good MBA is going to let me in after only a year of work). And would you do this next year or work more before going? Would it look strange to not do 2 analyst years before going?
I am a long time reader of the site but seldom poster. Thanks to everyone who speaks up more; your advice has gotten me this far!
Personally, I am interested in doing an MBA or a JD/MBA (since you asked). In your situation, I would look at which degree would help most for VC/the kind of start-up you'd like to work for (I'm guessing that might be the M.Egr) and I would also do an MBA for the network/ability to help you get to a VC fund etc. You're right about needing more work experience, so in your situation I'd probably work for another year or two (I've heard 3 years of work exp. is enough to get in) and then get a M.Egr/MBA.
Maybe even do 2 years of analyst work, a year or two at the kind of start-up you'd like to work at, then the degrees so you have a range of relevant experience going into your degree that you can leverage going out of it.
Disclaimer: still in UG, take my opinion for what you will.
Does your parents' offer come with a date of expiry? If not, then I would finish up the analyst program and then with a good amount of work experience go for an MBA, or whatever combination of designations appeals to you most. That way you come out of it with a decent work experience and the degree of your choosing, and if the VC/start-up thing doesn't take off, you can go back to banking as an associate because completing an analyst program and then going off to grad school seems to be a fairly typical career route. Just my $0.02 though.
Plastic Surgeon.
@notthehostpitalER: I apprecate your $0.02, regardless of age. that's very much what I was thinking but...
@CorpFinHopeful: My parents are pressuring me to do this now if I want the cash. I'm sure I can talk them into next year, but doubt I could push much more. I worry my MBA prospects would be that much improved by 2 years > 1 though; hence, the JD idea. Not really keen on going back into banking. Even the senior people seem to never escape the office & I'm not looking to be in that place at their age regardless of $.
@yeahright: I was actually thinking of quitting and becoming a rock star, but your idea works too.
Would your parents be willing to pay for the 2 degrees separately? In your situation, I would finish the analyst program, go to a M.Egr, work for a couple of years and then return to school for an MBA. That way, you'd get both degrees, and work exp. wouldn't be an issue for MBA admissions.
Personally I imagine the most significant cost will be time, not tuition itself, so I'm not sure it would affect my decision that much. If I were happy in the field I was in, making good money, and hadn't hit a roadblock where I needed an additional degree to advance, I wouldn't go get an MBA/etc whether tuition was free or not.
JD/MBAs are seriously pretty useless in my opinion. The whole point of an MBA is to build a network, but if you're doing the JD/MBA you won't have any time to spend bonding with classmates, which ruins the experience. A law degree isn't going to help you in any field except law, and you can't practice without taking the bar, which is a shitload of time and effort....basically what I'm saying is that the only reason you should ever, EVER go to law school is if you actually want to be a lawyer.
If you're genuinely interested in VC and startup work, I think getting an Masters in Engineering isn't a bad idea.
Honestly though? Don't listen to your parents about how it's bad having "only" a BS. I don't know anything about your family, but a typical immigrant mindset is that more degrees=better. The path to success in the United States though, especially in finance, isn't picking up degrees and passing tests. The CFA is a good example. It's really only useful in a specific niche area (long-only institutional AM), but recent immigrants treat it like it's a mystical, ultra-important thing that'll guarantee you a job at Goldman PI or something. In other countries, yeah, degree+tests=good job. But not in the US. Your network and work experience is way more important. So get a masters degree if you think it'll be useful or it'll let you move into a career path you want to take. But if it's just because you think "I should have a masters degree?" Not a good reason.
There are a lot of reasons not to do a JD/MBA but losing out on time to bond with classmates/network isn't one of them. JDs first two years are the hardest. The third year is 100% MBA just like another other MBA student. The fourth year is split and 3L and SY aren't that bad. I have a lot of JD/MBAs friends all of whom are just as networked and socially connected.
However, to you point about careers, is it worth the money, I'd say no.
For the time-sink problem I was referring to 3-year programs specifically; should have made that more clear.
Mitt Romney got the JD/MBA combo from Harvard, but I think he probably already had a ridiculous network.
Are your parents going to front you your forgone salary during your years in grad school in addition to tuition, etc? If so, go ahead and get whatever degree floats your boat.
JD/MBA joint degrees are a revenue generating tool for colleges to profit off of prestige whores and people who don't know any better. The only finance related career in which a JD/MBA might be of any help is distressed debt investing, but it is not necessary in the least.
MBAs are for career switchers and people who need it to get over the proverbial hump for whatever reason.
If I was in your situation:
Again, I would only use grad school as a last resort to get where you ultimately want to go.
I don't want to talk bad about your parents or imply that they don't have your best interests at heart because I'm sure they do, but they seem to either have a fundamental lack of understanding about what you really want to do/care about or don't understand the way things work anymore. Or your parents like the idea of telling everyone that little skiingavocado is doing a JD/MBA at Harvard because it makes them seem like better parents, etc.
I'd encourage you to have a serious conversation with your parents about exactly why they feel it is necessary for you get a graduate degree. And don't allow them to side track you with offering to pay for the tuition, etc.
(Again, I'd like to reiterate that I'm not talking bad about your parents and mean no disrespect to you or them.)
If you move to a less demanding job (hour-wise) there's always the option of doing it part-time or even online.
Me personally, I'm fortunate enough to have parents who have been willing to pay for my education (the only reason I went to college at all) all along and the only cost of attending school I've considered is time—and I wouldn't do one year more if I could help it (doing one more year still because I can't help the situation and that'll total to 3 years of higher education), I'm already as done as can be. If a bachelor's weren't required everywhere I'd never go into higher education, ever. God, I don't recall not hating school, ever since my first day of grade school, and sometimes back in kindergarten.
Since there's no tuition fee, insurance fee, comprehensive student fee, intramurals fee or any other fee assoicated with studying either towards a BSc or a MSc in the Nordic countries I already have that opportunity. I study towards a MSc because I think it's meaningful and will help me get where I want to be in the future and because I like studying. I think these are the relevant questions you should ask yourself.
thanks for the responses everyone. this gave me plenty to think of over thanksgiving. since they'd pay for living expenses, it really boils down to if its worth forgoing about ~150k in pre-tax bonuses i'd otherwise save, plus the difference between starting salary from grad school versus whatever salary i'd be able to find after 3 more years of work.
i guess my strategy is to stall as long as possible. BC, as @Simple As... or @LBJ's hair pointed out, an MBA can be a good tool to overcome a hump in your career/build your network to do that.
I know this doesn't apply to your situation directly, but the WSJ reported a study a few months ago that said that being unemployed for 9 months is like losing 4 years of work experience in the eyes of prospective employers. I think what it demonstrates is how valuable being employed is to future prospects and how harmful being unemployed is to future prospects. So if you're going to take 3 years off of work to further your education you need to make darn sure that you've got a game plan. Got a game plan for utilizing the education? Go for it--it's a calculated risk. If you don't have a game plan then you're really just gambling.
If you want an MBA or other form of further education to simply check the box so that you can advance within your industry then consider going part-time if there's a good program in your area (e.g. Georgetown University and University of Maryland both have solid JD and/or MBA programs that are part-time in my area).
Haven't read the article/seen the study so I apologize if I'm wrong...however, I find it hard to believe that studying towards a graduate degree counts as 'unemployed' in the context of that article- I'm guessing it meant genuine unemployment. Am I wrong? Hard to believe employers look down at grad degrees that much, just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, it doesn't include graduate degree unemployment. But the point I'm making is that actually working in a job and having the experience is very valuable to employers so don't go into graduate school without a game plan. If you're in an industry that you want to be in then it would probably do more harm than good to take 3 years off from work to get a degree--if you're already in the industry you want to be in then find a well regarded part-time program.
Career switching is a different story, of course.
lots of startups r run by undergrad college students and even high school kids. i dont think ur vc/startup dream even remotely require a graduate degree. tell ur parents elon musk has no grad degree and probably gives no damn to it.
(This has been sitting open in my tabs for a week, figured I'd finish the response and post.)
You'd actually be surprised how many JD students end up getting accepted into their school's MBA program while completing their JD program. I was actually tremendously interested in the JD/MBA and put a lot of research into it before I finished undergrad and decided it wasn't for me. Here's what I learned.
If you can get into a top law school (which, though challenging, is much less ambiguous than a top MBA) that also has a top MBA program, you have a great chance. Notable would be HLS, SLS, Penn, and Columbia, among others.
Speaking anecdotally, I know of several friends or acquaintances who attended schools like Duke, Yale, Cornell, or NYU who developed an interest in business while in school and got into their school's MBA program. I imagine it would likely be harder at Harvard, Stanford, and Penn given the competition to get into those b-schools from traditional applicants.
So, long story short, if you couldn't convince them to delay more than one year, you could begin studying now for the LSAT, crush it, get into a great school (a number of top programs are starting to view work experience quite favorably in the admissions process), leave your firm in June after your bonus clears, spend the summer (June-September before matriculating) studying for the GMAT, and apply for the JD/MBA degree while completing your 1L year.
Food for thought; hope this helps.
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