Immature, so tell it to me straight: why should I feel loyal to any firm?
I am beginning to think I am a selfish, selfish person.
I graduated recently and was able to secure a job on my own, thankfully (seeing how shit is going down with coronavirus...)
But one thing I unfortunately never experienced yet -- or perhaps did not grow into -- is a sense of loyalty to my firm. It's a startup that's doing pretty well all things considered; knowing the background of its personnel and the connections they have, I am sure it will do fine.
I can't exactly complain much about the role itself either.
But one thing that has always bothered me was this sense of apathy towards loyalty. I just don't understand why I should have it. Shouldn't I be trying to pursue greener fields whenever I can? I can definitely still improve my circumstances currently.
It's not like this first job is where it'll all end for me -- no way in hell. I want more with my life. I want to feel so accomplished and powerful that I can disappear whenever I want. And I'm going to obviously have to grow out of this firm to do that.
I just don't understand the point of feeling loyal. I just want to be able to make as much wealth and income as I can. I don't care for the rest. I want to be able to be financially so well off that I never ever experience anxiety again.
So what is with this idea of firm loyalty? Is it all just a front to make sure employees are contributing?
Maybe I'm just immature? I can't possibly be the only one who has ever felt like this.
Loyalty develops with time. If the firm invests in you and the senior people focuses on making you a part of the firm - you will start feeling loyalty.
It’s definitely a two way street. Many companies don’t feel any loyalty to you before they see it from you first. If you stay with this company a little longer you will naturally develop a sense of loyalty towards them.
+1
Corporations have no memory. Who knows if the people that see your acts of loyalty will still be with the firms in the future.
Loyalty and prestige are myths employers sell you so they can underpay and overwork you. Be loyal to your friends and family. Do honest work for your employer, but look out for yourself, because the owners will cut you in the minute the P&L demands it.
Perhaps your experience is different from my own (although you’re also in ibd) but the only people I know who say this kind of shit are typically: lazy, unambitious, unskilled, underemployed, or some combination of the aforementioned. If the higher ups see potential (and loyalty) in you, they will invest in you, be it by taking you along on meetings, paying for your MBA, etc. Job hopping affords you salary spikes early on but doesn’t help for long term career development
I'm none of those pejoratives and I disagree with Alt-Ctr-Left on 80+% of topics, but he's 100% correct. The only people who champion loyalty to an employer have never lived through a recession. Most employers will cut you like a bad habit the microsecond you show negative NPV.
You sound like a naive little corporate drone. I can tell you'd be annoying as shit to work with.
I would like to think investments in employees are economic and not sentimental decisions.
Sorry I should have been more specific. I think being invested in your company/team can be important, so long as it's a two-way beneficial street. Job hopping for quick pay raises isn't beneficial, nor is it productive to remain chronically underpaid in a job because your boss would be sad if you left. You should always be able to articulate why you are staying in your current role/employer and how you are personally benefiting from that arrangement.
Well put. I know a few who stayed on a job, outperforming while significantly underpaid. Loyalty (or in a more cynical sense, "the devil you know") and transaction costs of moving are main factors of staying.
If you even have a shred of doubts this, see the top comment in this post:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/biggest-professional-regret
If the number of SBs doesn't convince you .... good luck.
This is spot on. Don't ever make decisions for your career based on your feeling of loyalty to a firm, because they will never make a decision based on their loyalty to you when the P&L dictates it. Do whats best for you and best for your career. A good quote to follow for this is "you only owe a company the work you are paid for and the company only owes you your last paycheck".
I think the thing you are missing here are the intangible benefits to being a loyal, team-first oriented individual. Long-term, no on expects you to stick around at the same firm your whole life. But they expect you to at least act like it. If you are loyal to others and have a team-first mentality, eventually when you do decide to leave, they will stick their necks out for you and hope you land the best position possible. But if you come off selfish or unloyal, that will eventually show and can completely backfire.
Focus on building strong relationships with your peers and your clients. If you prove to be a loyal team player, I would argue your odds of going somewhere else will increase. People will want you to join their company, or may ask you to be a partner on a new company they're forming, etc. But if you are selfish, these opportunities will dry up.
I guess the moral of the story is business and success is a team sport. More often than not, you will go much farther when working together rather than being out for yourself. Just my two cents.
I have always viewed loyalty to people as far more important than loyalty to a firm or brand name. The firm doesn't give a shit about you, but your boss might. Over time, your boss may help you grow in the industry, introduce you to the right people, give you some good life advice for situations outside of work, go to bat for you with compensation negotiations, cover your ass when you fuck up, tell you not to worry about work for a week when your grandma dies and you need to be with your family, etc. All of these things inspire loyalty to the person showing loyalty to you and make you want to work harder for them. Like friendship or any other relationship really, it's a two-way street, and people typically give as much as they get.
Eventually, even with the best boss in the world, you may outgrow your role and not have anywhere to move up or just get a better opportunity elsewhere in general. Loyalty to me means giving said great boss more than just two weeks notice, or tipping him off a day or two over drinks before you officially tell the company as a whole, or making sure you work your ass off those last couple weeks to not leave the company in disarray when you head out. In turn, a loyal boss will be sad to see you go but happy to see you grow.
All of this is essentially just doing right by people who have done right by you. Loyalty to me has never been about unquestioned adherence or unfailing allegiance.
Well laid out CRE. I'm in my first job and feel loyalty to my teammates, one of whom was promoted to my direct boss. We've met outside of work and talked about life and moving elsewhere. I definitely think she wants the best for me and for that I'm willing to get shit done and make her look as good as I can in my current role. The company on the other hand....
This is very wise CRE. I wish someone had given me that advice early in my career.
Thanks for the excellent post, @CRE. Good leaders foster loyalty and inspire hard work. All these lead to a good firm/organization.
Loyalty =/= Subordination
Your boss does not want you to jump him/her in the hierarchy. Your boss' wet dream is for you to perform at a high-level in the same position for as long as possible. If you're banking on your boss to advance your career, you're going to get lapped several times over. A lot of what you describe in your first paragraph is basic human decency. A lot of what you describe in your second paragraph is proper career decorum.
To the kids reading this who want to play the game, you're the only person who really cares about your career. Relationships are totally kosher, but they need to remain disjointed from the inertia that drives you forward. If ever, save the subordination / corporate dogma for later in your career when you need to hide in th ocean of resources.
That’s the point
CRE Definitely agree with loyalty to your peers and superiors.
My attitude towards the firm as a whole vs my team differs significantly. Especially when times are hard. The firm won't help you outside the benefits and salaries, but your bosses/peers would.
Because the firm sees you as an Asset, but your peers sees you as a person. Your firm didn't need you, but your peers might. So never fall in love with your firm
+1. I feel the same way.
You don't know how hard this hits close to home. I wish you nothing but success and satisfaction in life.
I hope good performance brings you satisfaction and pride. Skills, knowledge and experiences accumulated through hard work will pay off. Hang in there. Most of us start from very little.
being loyal to a company is the same as being loyal to any friend or person. if they take care of you and have your back they deserve your loyalty in part. they must earn it.
Loyalty develops from people who treat you the right way, give you opportunities, act as a mentor, etc. If those people are high up - in the right firm, generally a smaller one - you will develop a loyalty to the firm through those people.
By the way - loyalty does not mean indentured servitude. You speak as if you will be trapped in a position forever and that 'loyalty' will hold you back. It's just the opposite, honestly. If you have the right managers, and firm culture, they should support you and build you up to the point that you may have to or want to leave - and you should embrace that. Refer good employees back to them. If a deal or business opportunity comes up - pitch it to them if warranted or bring them in as a solution provider. If you can't service a client or don't offer what a client wants - refer it to your old firm or bosses.
I felt the way you did for a few years when I first started - I was 'loyal' to the firm that gave me opportunities, bosses who supported me and couldn't conceive of leaving. That then turned to resentment when i felt they were holding me back from greater, bigger, better things as my career began to accelerate. I didn't consider how loyal they were back to me - giving me an opportunity, supporting my development, stepping aside to let me lead projects they could have, providing me opportunity, stepping in for me as i was promoted - and then eventually being very supportive of my next steps, whether it's internally or externally.
I'll end with this - your starting point is that the firm, in and of itself, is antagonistic towards your success, wanting to keep you there at all costs forever. If that is the case - please leave the firm. The best ones encourage success internally - as it supports their own business - and externally, as when you leave and succeed elsewhere you create networking effects, brand awareness, etc. that is also quite positive.
OP - you have nothing to feel guilty about. I cannot add much more to what Alt-Ctr-Left CRE SkullCrusherDJ and some others have said.
Work hard, be amiable, develop personal relationships. Any loyalty to some company or organization is just allowing them to exploit you. And that makes good business pnl sense since that gets your bosses/shareholders paid. People will help you out in a jam and promote you. Not companies.
Someone older and very wise once told me this on a long walk in the woods (different story):
"We are all hired guns. Be honest to people, treat them well and you will be fine. Get a great new job 1 year after joining? Take it, go to your boss, and tell them this is an amazing opportunity and that you have taken it, no countering, nothing like that. That you will be happy to help them with any transition etc. Most people will appreciate it. Life is long. They may be your boss again one day or it may be the other way around. That has happened to me and we are friends and have a real relationship. But remember when it comes to companies, you are always a hired gun. Nothing more."
Good Luck
That is poetic. Thanks for sharing, @Jolmoldo.
"Loyalty" and "sweat equity" is made up to get you to work more. No loyalty in this business. Why would anyone else care about you? Not to be an ass, but it's just the reality of it.
Some people might be loyal to you on a personal level as they grow fond of working with you, want to see you do well, etc. But this is the exception, not the norm.
Also to add on this. You will be surprised as to who helps you in times of need compared to those who don't. It is eye opening. Strangers, loose connections etc can be the nicest most helpful people out there. And that says a lot about their character. When you encounter this, remember it and them. Thank them, take them out for a beer, let them know that and pay it forward.
Little things like that go a long long way in this business and generally.
never be loyal to a check never be loyal to a hoe never be loyal to a flag only loyal to the hub and aveeno
Loyalty is earned not given and the mistake I especially see from younger employees, especially at the entry level, is this weird sense of loyalty they feel they owe the firm for hiring them.
In my first job out of college (think entry level BO group at an AM shop) I was with some of the junior employees and we were discussing future plans. We had this one junior staffer who scoffed at the idea that we were talking about leaving our current employer, claiming that if we stay loyal the firm will reward us eventually with better positions. Flash forward 5 years later, that same "loyal" staffer has been in the same group with a modest title bump while others that were driven and left the firm pursued better positions and eventually landed jobs with at least double take home comp than they would have made by being "loyal".
You shouldn't. Your firm would throw you out on the street if they made 25cents extra over what they would if they kept you.
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