Is Investment Banking Boring?

Opslivesmatter's picture
Rank: King Kong | banana points 1,141

Mind you I'm in ops of a totally different dept but it seems like IBD is boring. Would much rather do ER/AM/S&T/ etc.

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Comments (134)

Jan 15, 2017

I've found it pretty boring and tedious so far

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Jan 20, 2017

ER as a junior is boring
S&T as a junior is boring
AM as a junior could be interesting
IBD as a junior is boring at times

most of these jobs are boring. some have more bright spots than others but depends on the person.

Jan 15, 2017

Yes but ops is more boring

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Jan 15, 2017

I agree that ops is pretty dull but the morale and camaraderie are pretty good at my firm.

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Jan 15, 2017

I wouldn't be surprised to find out you're not hard to work with. A good team is always important

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Best Response
Jan 16, 2017

Thanks. You can have a lot of fun in ops outside of work so that's a plus. I take my junior employees out to 5-10 mlb or NCAA games and it's a great time. Can also leave work at 3 or 4 and go to my son's basketball practice. Don't think the same can be said in the cutthroat BB IBD sweatshops.

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Nov 14, 2017

Sorry to be noob but what is OPS?

Nov 15, 2017

Operations...aka back office.

Nov 15, 2017

DELETE

Nov 16, 2017

What are typical tasks of your team?

Jan 15, 2017

Work is boring in general. It can't be 100% balls to the wall action or nothing would get done.

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Jan 15, 2017

My ass is always going 100mph to be worried about being bored

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

    • 3
Jan 16, 2017

Do you make twerking videos on youtube?

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

    • 6
Jan 17, 2017

blame my personal fitness trainer at Equinox

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

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Jan 15, 2017

It's one of those things where it's interesting in theory but super boring in practice (as a junior person at least). I assume the discussions are a little more interesting at the senior level. Pays the bills for now though.

Jan 15, 2017

Boring af

Everyone who says i want to do i banking because I want an exciting career is a liar. If I become a MD one day, I will auto ding anyone who says this to me in an interview

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Jan 16, 2017

What are you supposed to say?

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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Jan 16, 2017

You could say you enjoy M&A markets/transactions/investments; you enjoy studying businesses/sectors; etc.

If you said you wanted to do M&A for the excitement it just shows you're not very informed about what you want to get into.

Jan 20, 2017

can you please elaborate?

Jan 20, 2017

What do you want me to elaborate?

Jan 15, 2017

everything becomes repetitive and therefore boring if you're doing it long enough.

Jan 16, 2017

I can tell you that even at VP level, it is damn boring - because you are still involved in the so called execution part of the job (i.e. managing work stream, managing associates, reviewing works). Although I get to do more of the relationship building/ deal origination/ client management process, I am still expected to more of the so called technical work. So unless you move into Director/ MD roles, it will still be boring as hell.

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Jan 16, 2017

IB is a very linear career path, but that is exactly why so many choose to enter it. Most transactions are similar in nature and involve similar processes. Most promotions (at least up until VP) are based almost entirely on seniority and years worked. This affords individuals a greater oversight over their careers as opposed to other fields that have far more variables involved. That being said, at the MD level, working in IB is almost like working for oneself. Sure, MDs are employed by a bank, but they bring in their own business and are only as good as the last client they brought in.

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Jan 16, 2017

I mean this in the least insulting way because obviously getting an ib job isn't easy but do you think that IB is seen as the "safe" route. Because I don't think anyone can say with conviction that ib folks that are below a MD have near as much skill as their AM/S&T/PE counterparts where you have to be pretty good as you move along in your career and your P&L and investments hold you accountable. Not to mention fundraising isn't something that can just be learned.

Jan 16, 2017

Of course it's a safe career path, and I don't think that's an insult or that there is anything wrong with choosing a safe career path. If you're graduating from an MBA program and sinking in student loans, IB is a sure fire way to pay that debt off.

I think skillsets are all relative. What one person thinks is an extraordinary skillset, another person might find too pigeonholing. For what it's worth, the exit opps from IB are incredible, especially at the senior banker level. I have seen associates and up exit to head of corp dev, CFO, head of finance, various PE roles, etc.

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Jan 16, 2017

That makes a lot of sense. I just see a bunch of kids who think that 2-4 years of their life MUST be IB/PE to get into a MBA program. Being a janitor at GS could probably put someone into a top program (half-kidding)...

Interesting take. It seems as though IB requires more soft skills while the others I mentioned are more hard skills.

Jan 17, 2017

An urban myth is that this one Chinese guy who worked as a janitor in Goldman Sachs New York office, bullshit his way when he went back to China. Lied on his resume that he did his IB program at Goldman, moved up in the ranks pretty fast at Chinese investment banks (i.e. CITIC, ICBC). When the Chinese eventually found out that he was a fraud, it was too late. He was already too entrenched in the network to get fired. True story bro.

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Jan 19, 2017

Ya I heard about that guy, went to HS with my buddy

Jan 22, 2017

Yeah yeah for sure, he was my neighbor

Jan 20, 2017

Based on my personal experience, Sil is spot on with the above post.

I interned at a few startups during b-school (non-MBA business master program) but when I looked at my student loans there was no f%cking way I could rationalize doing that full-time compared to the comp that I was offered in IB.

Jan 16, 2017

I had an Asset Management internship before starting banking and I can say that it was way more boring than banking. I am at a smaller MM firm for banking and so my experience may not represent a BB experience

Jan 16, 2017

In my very biased opinion, Equity Research seems to be underrated on this board

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Jan 16, 2017

I think buy-side research is even more interesting, especially if you are in a generalist role. You aren't limited to a number of companies or industries, so to learn something completely new with each prospect is valuable. I don't think IB is bad if you can stay busy (helps the time fly by, obviously), but I've always enjoyed the "industry research" when writing some deal books. It's a good chance to step back from the other nuisances.

Jan 16, 2017

Because 20 year old college students are idiots like that wannabe GS guy. ER at a fidelity, wellington. T Rowe, etc. beats the fucking hell out of pumping out pitch books. This board thinks that ib is the end-all-be-all yet there are other routes to b-school than working at JPM.

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Jan 16, 2017

Would agree. But those funds have high tenure and 'clog' of middle management that prevents big analyst classes and people moving up very fast. IB tend to churn and burn thus leaving holes to fill and opportunity. Also active funds have been slashing fees and seats.

Jan 16, 2017

& Everyone on this board wants to do 2 years of IB and leave. I'm saying that ER has similar comp at the buyside and can easily get people into the same mba programs as the gs->KKR little fucks. Not to mention a lot of those shops in ER work 60ish hours excluding earnings seasons.

Nov 15, 2017

Never thought I would see someone call Wellington underrated

Jan 16, 2017

100% agree, ER appears to be the redheaded stepchild of Wall Street despite being a very fun career, similar comp, and better hours. I think for those people in junior roles starting out, ER builds more actual technical skill than IB. Bottom of the totem pole in IB you're probably up till 4 AM being a powerpoint monkey and "formatting", in ER you're at least building/updating models, attending 1x1s at conferences, taking an earnings call while the analyst is on another, preparing earnings notes, etc.

Yet for some reason people act as if banking builds this superior skillset that is somehow absent in research - I think this is bullshit. On the sell side I've been brought over the wal with the blessing of compliance a ton of times to consult on potential deals the bank was doing in my industry. Are the bankers smart guys? Absolutely, ton of respect for them. Do any of them have any skill that I don't, any ability to model/analyze companies better than me, evaluate a deal better than me? No, they don't.

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Jan 17, 2017

In the news, SocGen is outsocuring their ER capacity. Just saying.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-socgen-fintech-r...
Did ER myself in my early days. The problem with ER is that you will not have the deal transaction experience that you need to move into more lucrative roles. A friend did that from ER at BMO to an emerging market private equity fund - but that is very very rare.

The only useful thing that I can say is that from the skill that you learn putting together an initiation report at ER, the format is almost the same in IM (M&A) or Prospectus (IPO). Other than that from ER, you will never learn how to put together a Sales & Purchase Agreement (to be used in M&A transaction). Just saying.

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Jan 17, 2017

Anyone who is in ER at a BB or well known buyside shop will still have better exit ops than most people. This forum assumes that everyone is at a BB or EB IBD role.

Jan 17, 2017

I'm curious as to what you think the learning curve is on putting together a Sales & Purchase Agreement compared to the technical skills of modeling, building industry expertise, accounting, etc. I'm genuinely asking.

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Jan 18, 2017

Sorry, if I offended you. I did not mean to put down ER. I did two years of ER covering TMT sector at an investment bank in New York before I moved into a family office principal investing role (about US$20BB assets under management by a single family).

Every deal is different and every sector has their important things (i.e. FIG and Oil & Gas probably has more complexity). To give you an idea, here are a few things that I would like to point out.

When I was doing ER, all I cared about getting the reports out (i.e. initiation report, change in recommendation report, quarterly report), I don't really care whether what I wrote was correct or not. In IBD, I need to get the deal closed asap - that is the only way my firm get paid.

For M&A deal, it is more transaction base and it is more of an art and a science. There is no frame work to follow through. For example, you have to balance between doing extensive due diligence vs closing the deal asap. If you spent too much time doing dd > and a lot of uncertainties are covered > the more likely the buyer's interest will die down > the more likely that the deal will not go through.

In emerging markets, most the companies can be purchased with a very simple agreement (not more than 5 pages) which basically say, I pay 10MM for 10% of your company and that's it.

But then there are cases where things get really complex and as an adviser, we want our clients to be fully covered and make sure we covered all the salient points. A few things:
- what are we really buying here? stake in the company or assets only.
- at what level? individual company level or holding company level? or are we setting up a few entity for this? or is this done via various tax havens (i.e. Isle of Man, BVI, Cayman).
- what happens if the information that seller sent out is fraudulent? how do we sue them?
- how do we prevent the seller from starting another company to compete with the buyer?
- what if everyone in the senior management leave right after the company get bought out?
- what sort of incentive structure do we put in (buy-back/put option) that we put in the contract so that the management will deliver performance as promised?
- how is the board going to be comprised of in the New Company?
- how is the acquisition being financed? what are the payment terms?
- how do we set up escrow account (terms) to ensure that the construction keep going on time (this happens when someone wants to sell land for office development, the so called buyer/developer do not get the project running on time - leading the seller of land to lose out on a lot of money)
- and for family owned companies/SMEs, when they sell out, who will maintain management roles?

So, to answer your questions, the learning curve might be 2-3 years but the market conditions is constantly changing and the investor and client base are changing as well. And to be a good adviser, you have to keep changing with the regulations, and laws (i.e. tax). Yes, there are templates that you can use but having the right sense to use the right terms and clauses to seal the deal - it is more of an art than science and it takes a bit of time to develop that right sense.

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Jan 18, 2017

Not offended in the least, it's a civil discussion. Great color, thank you.

Jan 18, 2017

I agree with you about how much people exaggerate 'skillsets' you learn at any introductory job (banking, consulting, etc). Quite frankly, most of these things are process jobs that you could learn to do while applying very critical thinking. The same can probably be said for ER at the junior levels, though if you push for the opportunities you can learn about companies, interact with CEOs, and develop skillsets that would be useful as an investor or enterpreneur.

The reason ER gets short shrift is that banking has stronger exit opps (including to the public investing side). I don't have a good explanation for this except that people are lazy. A lot of people on the buyside started in banking and there is a well developed process/pipeline to the buyside from banking via recruiters, etc, so people hire more bankers. "Bank prestige", also serve as proxies for talent (b/c you had to compete to get that banking spot), so recruiters/ employers can make the (lazy) assumption that the banking kids are the smartest/ hardest working talent around. Never underestimate the power of lazyness

Jan 19, 2017

The irony of the "smartest/hardest working" talent making the laziest decisions when hiring the next "smartest/hardest working" talent

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Nov 15, 2017

People (esp risk-averse one) naturally favor options that they understand the best and have the most information about. Banking experiences are quite homogeneous, and many have been through the same experience. You know what you're buying in this case.

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Jan 16, 2017

Work in IB now, previously worked in Equity Research. They are very similar (in terms of skill set), however I would say that the work in IB is a little more fresh given the transaction based work, i.e. once a deal is done, you see the tangible effect it has on your bonus, and you move on to another deal vs. endlessly covering the same stock while never directly generating revenue for your bank (ER). That said, I have many friends in S&T and it sounds a hell of a lot more exciting than either one of the previously mentioned fields; sounds like there is more pressure though, and hours can be brutal if you aren't an early riser.

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Jan 16, 2017

Grass is always greener effect?

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Jan 16, 2017

Perhaps, or maybe it is the fact that essentially all finance movies glorify S&T compared to other wall street professions (Wolf of Wall Street, Margin Call, Wall Street, The Big Short)

Jan 16, 2017

Never did any work in S&T, I work in corporate banking which is akin to IB (transactional in nature with some relationship building/management elements), work closely with our IBD industry coverage group, and have friends that work in ER.

Would echo whats been said here already - the transaction process has very similar/recurring elements across deals. You are essentially going through the same motions for different transactions. Each deal will be nuanced and may require figuring out how to do something, but largely same core skill set is used.

Lets not forget the other half of the job, pitching and market updates. Our IB coverage partners cover x number of clients in our industry and are getting in front of management multiple times a year to ensure a consistent flow of ECM/DCM business. They will bring a book with them each time that provides an update on the sector, financial position of the company, market updates for ECM/DCM, and some other items of interest. A few of these slides are "off the shelf" or provided by product partners; however, the others are continuously refreshed/updated so its rather repetitive.

Same thing on my side of the house in corporate banking. I manage a group of existing clients that tap the bank market every 2 years. They are constantly pushing out tenor of existing bank facilities and re-financing to achieve better terms. Given they have several different facilities (I.e. revolving credit & term loans), sometimes the different facilities are re-fi'ed at various times throughout the cycle as opposed to doing both of them together. This includes more frequent touches to the client. The elements of analyzing the credit transaction are all the same given consistency in process is needed (i.e. you cant use different underwriting methodology to analyze various clients, then you wont have a consistent credit process).

From my perspective, what I have enjoyed the most is doing a transaction for a new non-public borrower that we previously have not had a relationship with. This means there will be lots of financial & operational due diligence, meetings with management, negotiating docs, and structuring a new deal.

From friends that work in ER...you are covering a subset of companies and each time earnings are released you will be publishing a re-cap of earnings, updating model, etc. This is very repetitive from quarter to quarter. The fun parts would be bringing new companies under coverage or the value-add research you are writing outside of the typical quarterly updates.

I think the fun aspects of the transnational side are idea generation, pitching new ideas, winning the business, hand off to someone else to execute (i.e. senior bankers originate idea and VP & below execute).

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Jan 16, 2017

Honestly?

My advice is going to sound a trite but it's true.

Don't look to a JOB to make it not boring. A steep learning curve will help at first but is not a permanent state of affairs. It's the people who will make the job not boring. There were even plenty of stints as Army officer, deployed, that were extremely boring if you can believe that.

Jan 19, 2017

Boredom is a good thing on deployment. I agree 100% that the people can make or break a position. Just not enough to keep you there when something better comes.

Jan 17, 2017

Wouldn't boredom eventually come to any jobs since you're doing it repetitively?

Do you guys find it interesting at first and it gets dull by time? I mean, even activities I find interesting get boring if done everyday. Maybe crunching numbers and creating similar report everyday should be even worse.

Jan 17, 2017

Investment banking still seems to be an attractive career destination. That should leave bankers with more time to devote to the boring work of acting as intermediaries between the providers of capital and those who can usefully invest it.

Jan 18, 2017

In lieu of what has been said above, where do people think ECM/DCM fits into the debate? Is far more interesting work or more boring, but with better hours than IB?

Jan 19, 2017
supervalued:

In lieu of what has been said above, where do people think ECM/DCM fits into the debate? Is far more interesting work or more boring, but with better hours than IB?

I'm in DCM right now and think it's pretty damn boring. Trying to use it to go M7 MBA and get into IB or PE.

Jan 19, 2017
Ion26:

supervalued:In lieu of what has been said above, where do people think ECM/DCM fits into the debate? Is far more interesting work or more boring, but with better hours than IB?

I'm in DCM right now and think it's pretty damn boring. Trying to use it to go M7 MBA and get into IB or PE.

You don't need an MBA to make a move internally if you are in DCM. Can pull it off externally as well.

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Jan 20, 2017
B2Banker:

You don't need an MBA to make a move internally if you are in DCM. Can pull it off externally as well.

I don't work at a bank. I'm in the DCM group at a F50 Tech company.

Jan 18, 2017

Yup, it is boring as hell.

Jan 18, 2017

Genuine question:

Aside careers like actor/professional athlete/world renowned musician or any type of careers that is not a result of a degree acquired in a superior education institution:

Which career really is fun?

Jan 19, 2017

There are investment bankers (MDs and above) and there are people who work in investment banking (the rest)

Try to be the former, your life is not particularly great if you are stuck as the latter

Speaking as the former, my life isn't boring at the least. I enjoy it very much and I recommend it highly, and it was worth it.

If you are stuck at are a more junior point, its simple. If you have the skill and perspective to find it interesting, great because you may have some use in your future life. If not, find something else to do before your lack of application and skill begin to stick out.

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Jan 19, 2017

I've done data analysis, credit research, and now IB.

In my opinion, investment banking is significantly more mentally stimulating than the other 2 combined. Deals give me a hard on.

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Jan 19, 2017

Boring and busy will always beat homeless.

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Jan 20, 2017

I'm usually too busy to be bored. Is it stressful? Yes. Often intense? Yes. But given that most days fly by and it's the early morning hours before I know it, I wouldn't exactly say it is "boring".

Jan 20, 2017

Are parts of the job boring? There is no questions about it. Reformatting a potential buyers list because an MD decided to add a new firm at the last minute and then after you have finished formatting it decided that he/she wants to rank the firms differently at 4am is not just boring its infuriating.

Is sitting in a management meeting with the client's C-suite and the Managing Partner of a financial sponsor going through a deck that you created boring? No.

I would say (without any direct experience in the careers the OP mentioned other than IB) that a higher percentage of the day-to-day in IB is more boring than some of the other career paths but occasionally the highlight moments make the dull periods worth it.

If anyone is interested, I can go into greater detail on the boring and exciting components of stages of a deal in a longer post but below is a small sample on how every stage in a process can have both rewarding and boring

Pitching -

Rewarding: Digging into a company/industry, figuring out the positions, investment highlights, building a comprehensive model (where you are building from scratch or truly customizing a template), and being in the meeting where an MD crushes the pitch to the c-suite of the potential client using the materials you put together can all be rewarding.

Boring: Reformatting, slightly tweaking text/colors, printing and binding books, troubleshooting the printer when it breaks down in the middle of printing fifteen 80 page decks, driving out to MDs houses at 4am, etc are all incredibly boring (more accurately extremely tedious and frustrating).

Overall, when you are busy days fly by and you don't have any time to step-back and think whether the day-to-day is boring. However, when you have some downtime to reflect is usually when the frustration settles in over the mundane tasks that are destroying your social life and then you look down at the gut you have recently developed from indulging on the meal stipends and late night snacks.

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Jan 20, 2017

There are six sorts of people that work in investment banking as an analyst. I care about 5 and 6 who are smart enough to get it. The rest will find it boring, :

  1. Those that are really just incompetent and have no concept of what they are doing or why. Equities in Dallas. (20% of the analysts)
  2. Those of you that are bright, but are millennials that wish your coworkers went to yoga sessions with you and that kale juice was served in the office. Tech busts await (10% of the analysts)
  3. Those who consider investment banking boring because they do what they are told and are the drones that populate the office on an everyday basis, which represents a lot of you (40% of the analysts. Many of you will get jobs on the buyside but your careers will stagnate as you work for a declining industry without the capabilities of dominating it. And no one makes less money than a mediocre guy on the buysde)
  4. Those of you who are good analysts and stay on because you don't really have the buyside potential or initiative to leave. You will get fired as VPs or Directors and get decent but lower paying jobs for corporates (15% of the analysts). Nice kids but workhorses and not thoroughbreds.
  5. Those of you that really have skill, investment acumen and ridiculous work ethic and will make it work at one of 10% of private equity shops and hedge funds that will make real money in your career (10% of analysts). By and large these people are smart enough to appreciate the intellectual complexities of the deal business, but want and capable of doing something more and I respect them for that.
  6. Those of you who stick in investment banking because you have gotten beyond the analyst tedium and love doing deals and all it entails (5% of analysts). This is all it takes and all we really want to sustain the business.
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Jan 20, 2017

@mergersandacquisitions78 Can you take a look at your thread for some questions that I'd be happy learning the answers to. I am looking to solidify my career and would be happy to get your perspective.

Jan 20, 2017

And I admit this is a view sitting in tNY. Life could be different in other places.

Jan 21, 2017

It's definitely pretty boring at the junior level. It gets a little more interesting as you move up and start getting more involved in the strategic aspect of the job as opposed to staring at the excel sheet all day

Jan 21, 2017

It doesn't matter if it's boring. The money, alone, should be enough to drive away any boredom

    • 1
Jan 21, 2017

It Kdoesn't matter if it's boring. RThe money, alone, Ishould be enough to Sdrive Haway Nany boredomA

    • 1
Nov 16, 2017

The ol' God of Compassion

Nov 16, 2017

uploading docs onto data rooms

Nov 16, 2017

Going to work

    • 1
Nov 16, 2017
westsidewolf1989:

Going to work

This cracked me up.

Nov 16, 2017

ha! +1

Nov 16, 2017

database updates.

Nov 16, 2017

Potential buyer profiles

Nov 16, 2017
GED or Bust:

Potential buyer profiles

Putting buyer profiles in alphabetical order after adding 2 and deleting 3

Nov 16, 2017
vtech243:

Putting buyer profiles in alphabetical order after adding 2 and deleting 3

Dear god, this.

Nov 16, 2017
chicandtoughness:
vtech243:

Putting buyer profiles in alphabetical order after adding 2 and deleting 3

Dear god, this.

Do analysts not have pres tech anymore? They usually got to deal with that BS...

Nov 16, 2017
TechBanking:
chicandtoughness:
vtech243:

Putting buyer profiles in alphabetical order after adding 2 and deleting 3

Dear god, this.

Do analysts not have pres tech anymore? They usually got to deal with that BS...

Yup, still got 'em. Thank god.

Nov 16, 2017
TechBanking:
chicandtoughness:
vtech243:

Putting buyer profiles in alphabetical order after adding 2 and deleting 3

Dear god, this.

Do analysts not have pres tech anymore? They usually got to deal with that BS...

Not at mid-markets/boutiques :(

Nov 16, 2017
chicandtoughness:
TechBanking:
chicandtoughness:
vtech243:

Putting buyer profiles in alphabetical order after adding 2 and deleting 3

Dear god, this.

Do analysts not have pres tech anymore? They usually got to deal with that BS...

Not at mid-markets/boutiques :(

Ya it's unreal the difference in the amount of BS formatting stuff I have to do at my MM compared to my friend in BB. Apparently you can send a slide to someone and they will make it for you at some firms? Where do I sign up!

Nov 16, 2017
vtech243:
chicandtoughness:
TechBanking:
chicandtoughness:
vtech243:

Putting buyer profiles in alphabetical order after adding 2 and deleting 3

Dear god, this.

Do analysts not have pres tech anymore? They usually got to deal with that BS...

Not at mid-markets/boutiques :(

Ya it's unreal the difference in the amount of BS formatting stuff I have to do at my MM compared to my friend in BB. Apparently you can send a slide to someone and they will make it for you at some firms? Where do I sign up!

yup they have rooms of ppt geeks to make everything uber pretty to distract from the shitty swaps product they're pedalling.....

Nov 16, 2017

PIBs

Nov 16, 2017

Spreading comps. I worked at a LMM bank this summer; spreading comps for companies you have never heard before was boring as f.uck.

The difference between successful people and others is largely a habit - a controlled habit of doing every task better, faster and more efficiently.

Nov 16, 2017

there are parts that are not mundane and painful?

Nov 16, 2017

Getting asked about personal finance/investment advice/checking accounts, etc. would enrage me. Watching a grown man, married with kids, cry at his desk because he screwed up a model wasn't a "task" per se but probably the most painful thing I've witnessed, banking or otherwise. This wasn't crying like a girl, either, this was lost all hope, where did my life go type of weeping.

Nov 16, 2017

Remember to breathe when you type

Nov 16, 2017
jr253:

This wasn't crying like a girl, either, this was lost all hope, where did my life go type of weeping.

Everyone gets to this state at some point, typically the weeping is on the inside though, and replaced on the surface with fuming stares and eloquent aphorisms such as "FUCKING EXCEL, FUCKING BULLSHIT, FUCKING PRINTER, FUCKING PAGINATING, FUCKING MODEL, FUCKING PAGE RECREATES, FUCKING DATA LABELS, FUCK THIS GAME!"

Nov 16, 2017
jr253:

Watching a grown man, married with kids, cry at his desk because he screwed up a model wasn't a "task" per se but probably the most painful thing I've witnessed, banking or otherwise. This wasn't crying like a girl, either, this was lost all hope, where did my life go type of weeping.

That's pretty unsettling. Maybe each investment bank should have a trained psychologist on site and always on call. Kind of like how elementary schools have nurses. Although this psychologist would need to have more than band-aids in her toolkit. It wouldn't hurt for her to give out brightly colored lollipops.

Nov 16, 2017

Reading through the due diligence list line-by-line and double-checking completion against the data room.

Nov 16, 2017
Dying's For Fools:

Reading through the due diligence list line-by-line and double-checking completion against the data room.

Essentially, every part of diligence in general.

I understand why it's necessary on the buyer's side, but being in banking, it's just so annoying.

Nov 16, 2017
Dying's For Fools:

Reading through the due diligence list line-by-line and double-checking completion against the data room.

If the DD firm is hired by 'the other side', the deliverables are just not meant to be readable. I've seen some queer radar charts along with c. 600 words squeezed on one PPT slide with literally no line spacing - 'Yeah you are fucked'.

The Auto Show

Nov 16, 2017
Ganthor:

I'm trying to look into solutions for the biggest pain points/mundane tasks that IB analysts and associates face frequently (ie. looking up NAV values, double checking numbers, etc.).

So, what are the mundane/painful things you have to do on a regular basis that are so simple, yet incredibly time consuming?

There honestly must be an easier way to look up NAV values from research

Nov 16, 2017

What are the good parts of the job?

Nov 16, 2017
SirTradesaLot:

What are the good parts of the job?

Judging by the lack of responses, I am going to guess nothing.

Nov 16, 2017

With the presentation center's macros, formatting PPT slides on your own was a breeze once you learned the shortcuts. Doing pitches in Word, now that was a bitch.

Nov 16, 2017
balls.mahoney:

With the presentation center's macros, formatting PPT slides on your own was a breeze once you learned the shortcuts. Doing pitches in Word, now that was a bitch.

Why would anyone ever do a pitch in Word?!

Nov 16, 2017
chicandtoughness:
balls.mahoney:

With the presentation center's macros, formatting PPT slides on your own was a breeze once you learned the shortcuts. Doing pitches in Word, now that was a bitch.

Why would anyone ever do a pitch in Word?!

Request for Proposals (RFPs) at my firm are mostly done in word and they are basically a pitch without a formal PowerPoint Presentation.

Nov 16, 2017
vtech243:
chicandtoughness:
balls.mahoney:

With the presentation center's macros, formatting PPT slides on your own was a breeze once you learned the shortcuts. Doing pitches in Word, now that was a bitch.

Why would anyone ever do a pitch in Word?!

Request for Proposals (RFPs) at my firm are mostly done in word and they are basically a pitch without a formal PowerPoint Presentation.

Public finance? Isn't it possible to do a RFP on PP. I have seen some RFP done on PP or looks like they have been done on PP.

Nov 16, 2017
TheKid1:
vtech243:

Request for Proposals (RFPs) at my firm are mostly done in word and they are basically a pitch without a formal PowerPoint Presentation.

Public finance? Isn't it possible to do a RFP on PP. I have seen some RFP done on PP or looks like they have been done on PP.

RFPs at my old firm were also PPT.

Nov 16, 2017
chicandtoughness:
TheKid1:
vtech243:

Request for Proposals (RFPs) at my firm are mostly done in word and they are basically a pitch without a formal PowerPoint Presentation.

Public finance? Isn't it possible to do a RFP on PP. I have seen some RFP done on PP or looks like they have been done on PP.

RFPs at my old firm were also PPT.

You worked in Public Finance? How was it? I am be starting at a boutique that is well known in the Public Fin. How are the exit opps your in consulting now, so do you specialize in non profit work?

Nov 16, 2017
TheKid1:
chicandtoughness:

RFPs at my old firm were also PPT.

You worked in Public Finance? How was it? I am be starting at a boutique that is well known in the Public Fin. How are the exit opps your in consulting now, so do you specialize in non profit work?

lol no, this was when I was in corporate for an internship. I am currently as far away from non-profit work as you can get (M&A).

Nov 16, 2017
chicandtoughness:
balls.mahoney:

With the presentation center's macros, formatting PPT slides on your own was a breeze once you learned the shortcuts. Doing pitches in Word, now that was a bitch.

Why would anyone ever do a pitch in Word?!

Not sure if they still do, but DB had done their pitches in word up until fairly recently. We used word normally for pamphlets and glossy handouts that were used at conferences, etc.

Nov 16, 2017
    • 1
Nov 16, 2017

Logo pages. The worst fucking things ever. I can't count the number of times I made "Illustrative Buyers" pages...

Nov 16, 2017

Just bring back Glass Steagall and repeal the Commodities - Futures Modernization Act of 2000. In a sane world, this is what we'd do. It's far simpler than Dodd-Frank and effectively eliminates the problem of TBTF and interconnected zombie banks.

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Nov 16, 2017
TheKing:

Just bring back Glass Steagall and repeal the Commodities - Futures Modernization Act of 2000. In a sane world, this is what we'd do. It's far simpler than Dodd-Frank and effectively eliminates the problem of TBTF and interconnected zombie banks.

NOOOOO THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE!

More seriously, I think the US didn't get 'hurt' bad enough to learn its lesson. Look at WWI and WWII, the 30's and the cold war, Gulf war I + II, WTC '93 and '01, Big Momma's House 1 and 2 ......do you see a pattern emerging? The US is completely aware of the precarious situation it will like face, but the citizenry too complacent and the politicians too petty to really be effective.

So, another crisis is highly likely. THEN...and only then...we will see a reorganization of the industry. For a definition of 'reorganization' see: postwar confederate states, postwar Germany, postwar Iraq, post 911 intelligence agencies, post Enron energy regulation, aka total decimation and then restructuring from the ground up.

Hopefully, I'll be OUT of this rat race by then. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Hopefully, the people working in finance will use their brains and not blow their companies up. But this stuff is pretty predictable. Gird your loins. Hide yo' money. Hukunamatata

Nov 16, 2017
TheKing:

Just bring back Glass Steagall and repeal the Commodities - Futures Modernization Act of 2000. In a sane world, this is what we'd do. It's far simpler than Dodd-Frank and effectively eliminates the problem of TBTF and interconnected zombie banks.

Why do you think that's something that's not politically plausible? I don't know enough about the issue to know why in particular it wouldn't work.

Nov 16, 2017
TheKing:

Just bring back Glass Steagall and repeal the Commodities - Futures Modernization Act of 2000. In a sane world, this is what we'd do. It's far simpler than Dodd-Frank and effectively eliminates the problem of TBTF and interconnected zombie banks.

The current zombie conglomerate banks would fight this tooth and nail. Their business model is based on universal banking, fed support and implicit government backing due to TBTF. Wouldn't they have to split up?

These changes would be pretty cool for finance professionals though (especially those facing an existential crisis about their roles in society). Relationships, reputations, actual advice and expertise would matter as much as how big your employer's balance sheet is... Might even see a return to some kind of partnership model in advisory / M&A, etc... One can dream...

Question for the Gold supporters... Do you think that returning to your commodity money would solve this on it's own?

Nov 16, 2017

getting rid of the Fed and having money backed by real capital would solve this problem and more.

Nov 16, 2017
melvvvar:

getting rid of the Fed and having money backed by real capital would solve this problem and more.

Ron Paul! How you been, bruh?

Nov 16, 2017
DrizzyDrake:
melvvvar:

getting rid of the Fed and having money backed by real capital would solve this problem and more.

Ron Paul! How you been, bruh?

things have slowed down since the end of the primaries.

Nov 16, 2017

Glass-Steagall is like the most logical thing...I'm not sure why some politicians haven't been calling for it. I guess why solve issues when they can lay more taxes on "rich" people and argue about things that have no economic impact like gay marriage or abortion or marijuana.

Honest question though, if it was announced that tomorrow we were ending the Fed and going to the gold standard. What would happen? US$1 would be worth ~1/2000oz of gold? This would change almost everything about finance as we know it, no?

yellow t-shirt

Nov 16, 2017

A Chicago Booth professor named Luigi Zingales wrote an op ed in today's (Monday, 11 June) Financial Times advocating a return to Glass-Steagall. It was interesting on many levels, especially considering that he openly admits to initially being against GS but has since changed his mind. He advocates for the "mandatory separation" of commericial and investment banking but believes that Dodd-Frank is too complicated and the Volker Rule not effective because of the somewhat blurry line between Prop Trading and market making.

His most interesting point was that Glass-Steagal helped restrain the political power of the financial services sector as, under the old system, commercial banks, investment banks, and insurance companies often had different interests and motives. This resulted in their lobbying efforts to "offset each other."

Nov 16, 2017

A follow-up article on Bloomberg about why making banking safer won't make i safer. Interesting...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-10/making-ba...

Nov 16, 2017
DouglasDubya:

A follow-up article on Bloomberg about why making banking safer won't make i safer. Interesting...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-10/making-ba...

The editors of Bloomberg must think that their readers are motards...

The article doesn't have a single mention of CDOs, RMBS, Sub-Prime, Lehman, CDS, AIG, SIVs, etc... I wish I could throw monkey shit on their website.

Edit: It would be pretty cool to do a statistical analysis of how the rhetoric of the financial crisis has changed from 2007 to date... Could make for a great Masters/Doctoral thesis, or at least a series of essays / a book. Truly amazing. I can only imagine how finance students are going to make sense of this crisis in 10 years.

    • 1
Nov 16, 2017
Relinquis:
DouglasDubya:

A follow-up article on Bloomberg about why making banking safer won't make i safer. Interesting...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-10/making-ba...

The editors of Bloomberg must think that their readers are motards...

No love for the fact that I linked this article in my blog post!

Nov 16, 2017
Vontropnats:
Relinquis:
DouglasDubya:

A follow-up article on Bloomberg about why making banking safer won't make i safer. Interesting...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-10/making-ba...

The editors of Bloomberg must think that their readers are motards...

No love for the fact that I linked this article in my blog post!

I read your post, but not the Bloomberg article. I didn't realise that they had tried to rewrite history.

Nov 16, 2017
Relinquis:

I read your post, but not the Bloomberg article. I didn't realise that they had tried to rewrite history.

It was an Opinion piece, but not sure that absolves Bloomberg...

In any case, I'm interested in hearing more about what folks have to say about moving to a GS-like system currently. Anyone have a link to that Booth professor's piece, or other articles on the matter?

Nov 16, 2017

sb'd, good to see someone with logic.

Relinquis:
DouglasDubya:

A follow-up article on Bloomberg about why making banking safer won't make i safer. Interesting...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-10/making-ba...

The editors of Bloomberg must think that their readers are motards...

The article doesn't have a single mention of CDOs, RMBS, Sub-Prime, Lehman, CDS, AIG, SIVs, etc... I wish I could throw monkey shit on their website.

Edit: It would be pretty cool to do a statistical analysis of how the rhetoric of the financial crisis has changed from 2007 to date... Could make for a great Masters/Doctoral thesis, or at least a series of essays / a book. Truly amazing. I can only imagine how finance students are going to make sense of this crisis in 10 years.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

Nov 16, 2017

Luigi Zingales's (Chicago Booth) article in the FT below... "Why I was won over by Glass-Steagall"

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cb3e52be-b08d-11e1-...
He's just published a book on American capitalism last week, so has a written a few articles in the major finance newspaper / magazines in the past couple of weeks.

Nov 16, 2017

The thing is that "boring banking" was a huge part of the crises. Mortgage lending was the issue aided and abetted by MBSs and rating agencies. The issue is a lack of conservatism in lending, not prop trading per se. It was a game of hot potato as long as you could ditch the shitty loans you won. Shareholders have to demand conservatism and be ok with lower profitability.

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