Is it possible to train your body to need less sleep?
Is there a way to train myself to need less sleep? Work itself is already frustrating enough with the long hours, but sleeping after dinner and a shower makes it so much worse.
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You can definitely train yourself to go to bed at a different time - say 23:30 instead of 21:15... but this doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel like you've gotten enough sleep if you're used to 8 hours. To make those 6 hours of sleep the best quality possible use OTC melatonin and exercise during the day so you fall asleep faster/deeper. These are the 2 biggest things I can think of.
Sleep is a tricky topic to talk about because there is mixed quality scientific evidence on it. Some papers show hypnograms (sleep cycle graphs) showing that on average a full sleep cycle (REM, light sleep, deep sleep, light sleep, REM and awake) takes about 90 minutes. This means sleeping in 90 minute cycles (3h, 4.5h, 6h, 7.5h or 9h) makes you feel less tired than sleeping slightly more but breaking the cycle. I've found that this actually works for me; I feel more tired with 7h than with 6h or with 8h than with 7.5h. Try this for 2-3 days or so to see if it works for you too.
Rather than decreasing sleep quantity aim to improve quality and sleeping habits including:
No screens 30 minutes before bed - read a book or something and it'll help you get to sleep.
Aim to eat about 2-3 hours before going to sleep to digest properly. This helps improve sleep quality
Sleep warm but keep your head cool meaning sleep in a coolish room but make sure your body is well covered with a thick blanket. Heat and sweating messes with your sleep
Avoid alcohol and tobacco as often as possible if you want good quality sleep. Max 1-2 days a week if you can.
Sex also helps improve sleep quality. If you live alone then... you know what you have to do before going to bed
Hope this helps. Goodnight
Pretty much what I was going to say, I've always tried to focus on getting 6, and then catching up on the weekends with like 9
I second the no screens before bed. I believe I read about a study that found that reading fiction before bed helps your brain unwind so it's easier for you to fall asleep.
I also second the part about booze. Alcohol messes with your REM cycles so for most people it's going to do more harm than good in the sleep department.
Reading helps a ton. I also do ROMWOD before bed in the dark( great if you’re into sports / mobility).
Screens should be avoided AT LEAST 30min before bed like stated above... preferably 60min+ - the longer the better
I've really tried the REM thing but I have my doubts because of a few things:
1) I can fall asleep between anything from 5 minutes to 45 minutes, so it becomes very difficult for me to actually reliably target an amount of hours 2) I heard REM cycles vary by quite a bit depending on age, health, race, etc..... I don't always feel that great when I am confident that I slept exactly 7.5 hours or 9hours
Yes I agree, there is variation. 1) with the bed time habits mentioned above normally you should be able to fall asleep within 15 minutes but clearly there is variation (getting a stressful email 1h before going to sleep will fuck that up). 2) yes, REM cycles vary from 80-120 minutes with 90 being an average. You need to figure out the combo of your ideal REM cycle and how long it takes to fall asleep.
At this point my suggestion would be to invest in a sleep tracking app of software and see how that goes. I don't know how well they work because I've never used one but I guess there are blogs out there than can shed more light on the matter
heister
I don't think it would hurt. In my knowledge at least, a lot of your ability to survive sleep deprivation comes from genetics. Many people who sleep an average of 6 hours a night (as opposed to 8) and are able to recover from sleep deprivation easier have a genetic mutation that the general population don't have. I think the frequency (in the US at least) is something like 5%.
Yes. Plenty of studies show you have more energy generally and it is hard to believe that wouldn't translate to higher productivity when sleep deprived. Anecdotally, I am fresher and more productive at work on 5 hours of sleep and an hour of exercise vs. 6 hours of sleep
you should exercise for so many reasons beyond investment banking. living longer, self image, overall health, getting laid, broscience, etc etc etc.
but yes, exercise helps everything. so you should exercise.
Amen.
Just wanted to add, you get most of the benefits (i.e. endorphins) from cardiovascular exercises, not lifting weights. The combination of a clean diet and cardio will make you far more productive, even on less sleep.
But do the benefits you receive from cardio outweigh the fact that you look like a twig and have no self-confidence? Not saying cardio is bad, just don't recommend it exclusively.
But do the benefits you receive from cardio outweigh the fact that you look like a twig and have no self-confidence? Not saying cardio is bad, just don't recommend it exclusively.
This is spot on. Additionally, I'm not sure of the value of cutting sleep to get exercise.
If you don't have time, make sure to: 1) eat very well (this is far more important than you would think...not just don't eat junk, but eat the right foods in the right amounts) 2) meditate (just 5min here and there for a total of 15/day) 3) and, as for exercise, you just need to do enough to have your heart rate up for about 25min. (get a treadmill, get on it right after you wake up for 25min (do at least 3 miles).
If you get less than 6hrs of sleep, power naps will help...even if they're only 5-10min long.
It's kinda funny that you're considering hitting the gym to improve your banking productivity.
no idea why you got poo for this, you said the exact same thing I did.
Completely anecdotally, I work out ~4x/week and feel noticeably more tired on days I don't get to the gym in the morning.
Plus, everyone knows to take you seriously when you're slugging a protein shake at the office.
Yes, but I think more importantly you should look to keep your diet in check and avoid eating junk that will spike your blood sugar around. Keeping yourself balanced, in my experience, is really important in helping to avoid mood swings and handle stress. Not everyone, but i'd suspect a lot of people, will find it easier to manage their emotional state when they are eating quality food. Spend the extra few dollars; you'll thank us all later.
I would say generally that it will be better to stay in shape so your heart doesn't give out after years of sleepless, coffee and red bull fueled workweeks.
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It surely help. Humans are animals after all and therefore we are not built to sit at our desk 16h a day. Our heart's beats, digestive system, blood flow...etc... all follow the natural rhythm of hunting, running from dangers, killing enemies... Exercising (even just a bit) helps to keep everything in synchrony.
I heard sleep is a good cure for sleep deprivation. Why not try it instead?
Do you work in IB?
You can't always get the sleep you want, and often (maybe paradoxically?) less sleep and exercise actually makes you feel better than some more (but still not enough) sleep and no exercise.
I thought this was common knowledge.
I try to wake up and knock out some pushups and stretch just to get the blood flowing. Makes a world of difference.
I'm not in IB, but I've had some late nights... And when i do some pushups or stretch, that wakes me up.
Yes, I did pushups in my cube. haha.
I know a guy who used to do a few sprints in the office when it was really busy and he couldn't get out to exercise.
I would say a focus on nutrition, working out and intermittent fasting would be the optimal combination to maximize your efficiency of sleep. If you want less sleep, you probably should work out pretty hard at least once per day, but not really really hard as that just takes your body a long time to recover at night, physically.
Many studies say the optimal duration for intermittent fasting is an 8 hour intake window and a 16 hour period where you basically only drink water, tea, or black coffee (a nutritionist told me creamer under 50 cal is fine though).
There has been research that shows that people who normally consumed in a 15 hour window who decreased that window to 11-12 hours (sometimes referred to as TRF, time restricted feeding) even had improved sleep.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26411343 "The daily intake duration (95% interval) exceeded 14.75 hr for half of the cohort. When overweight individuals with >14 hr eating duration ate for only 10-11 hr daily for 16 weeks assisted by a data visualization (raster plot of dietary intake pattern, "feedogram") that we developed, they reduced body weight, reported being energetic, and improved sleep."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5388543/ "They also reported improved sleep at night and elevated alertness during the day."
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-0646…
"Numerous observational studies have reported that nighttime eating is associated with reduced sleep duration and poor sleep quality (2, 120), which can lead to insulin resistance and increased risks of obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and cancer (13, 31, 36, 41, 78, 96). Specifically, eating meals at abnormal circadian times (i.e., late at night) is hypothesized to lead to circadian desynchronization (7) and subsequent disruption of normal sleep patterns. Chowdhury et al. (21) found no effect of regularly skipping the breakfast meal (i.e., prolonging the nighttime fast) on waking time, sleep time, or sleep duration compared with controls. To our knowledge, no other studies have directly examined associations between intermittent fasting and sleep in free-living adults. The potential effects of prolonged nightly fasting on energy intake, sleep, physical activity, and circadian activity rhythm may act in concert to reduce the risks of cardiometabolic disease and cancer."
A couple of other tips:
No naps during the day -- this could increase the amount of time it takes you to fall asleep.
Have you considered getting a sleep test? You might have some sleep disorder that you're not aware of. Feeling exhausted when you wake up could be a sign of something else like sleep apnea, etc that might need medical evaluation.
Agreed, every time I have a nap during the day it takes me hours to fall asleep at night. I just don't feel sleepy at bedtime.
You think you need 8 hours of sleep to get going but your body will eventually get used to it. Hate to break it to you but the only way you're going to fall into this groove is by doing it for enough days. I was in the same boat. Go to bed early and down some melatonin but that usually made me that much more groggy in the AM. Not to mention the 3 PM crash.
Your body will eventually get used to it, just gotta keep at it. And stay away from uppers after like 3 PM
I've trained myself to sleep only 4 hours a day (1 AM - 5 AM on the weekdays, took approx 6 months to do.
Just to clarify though, the acclimatization period is rough, and I did it while in school (made it much easier)
I was an athlete at a top programs through out most of my childhood/college experience and what I found was that your body can adjust to almost anything you give it. I would usually be up working until about midnight and be up for practice at 4:30 every morning (sometimes 3 so that I could run for a bit before practice).
What I found is that rhythm is the most important thing- far more than actual hours slept. Every year in august going into nationals we would back off morning practices for a couple weeks. And the week we got back getting up and staying up during the day was the hardest. But if I went to be bed every night at midnight and up every morning at 4:30 that was enough for me.
Nutrition can really help here, as can caffeine, and I would echo some of the other tips people were giving above; no screens before bed (read instead), also exercise (which I was getting in the boat load then, and much less now) really helps during the day. I actually disagree with some above that a 20 min nap mid day really helps, but I think the bottom line is you just have to get used to it. I have always thought those sleep studies were BS, if you keep people awake that is all they are going to think about and there is an enormous placebo effect-- my coach (an ex navy captain) was mid 70's getting 3 hours max a night and was always on top of his game. I know this because I would text him at 2am sometimes and immediately get a response. If he can do it at that age anyone can do it in 20's and 30's.
From my experience, I have definitely adjusted. In college I felt like I needed at least 8 hours, and I was getting 8 hours every night (albeit it was 2-10), and when I came to the working world at started waking up at 5:30 as a trader it was extremely tough for me even to get by on 6-7 hours. After about 9 months now, I sleep 5 hours on average and feel more energized than if I get 7. Maybe that's just me/a placebo or getting used to the tiredness, but I do really feel that I've gotten used to it.
None of this stuff works and none of you would actually attempt doing any of this shit like intermittent fasting or not looking at a screen for the 24 hours before laying your head to rest.
Its called grit, partner. I get out of the bed early because I don't mind being in discomfort and, frankly, because the global economy needs me to.
Yeah we all clench our buttholes every morning for the impending economic crisis if you don't roll your ass out of bed.
Yes it is possible, and I've done it. I'd like to preface by stating the obvious that each individuals mind and body are different and therefore what worked for me may not work for you. I trained myself to require less sleep / wake up earlier during my stint as an intern and this last year as well. (I was overweight and for a multitude of reasons only felt motivated to work out in the mornings, which required me to be up at 5:30 to hit the gym at 6).
Melatonin: As others have stated, OTC 5mg of melatonin (sometimes even half a pill works) works relatively well to jump start your attempt to change sleep cycles (instead of sleeping 3am to noon I used it to help me get to sleep earlier when I wasn't ACTUALLY tired because... well... I woke up at noon or later)
Do it incrementally: Like most things in life, quitting something cold turkey or going in head first into an endeavor increases most peoples' likelihood of failing / quitting. If you function well on 8 hours of sleep try to knock it back incrementally by 15 to 30 minutes every few days and give your body time to adjust.
Eat / Exercise: I found that eating well and being active helped me fall asleep at night because it gave me a fulfilled day where I felt like I had "done enough work" and deserved sleep. My experience with this topic might also be a bit biased, since it was a huge part of my lifestyle change.
Screens: The bright hue of an Ipad at night will definitely destroy your ability to get to sleep at a regular hour. If you really need to deal with something try to use the lowest possible brightness with a blue light filter (there are plenty of apps that help do that).
Food, again: Another important thing is to make sure you don't eat too close to bed time. The food will inherently wake you up, give you energy, and get your mind racing again. Constantly thinking about shit was a big reason my sleep schedule was as bad as it was.
Other shit: I'm not too familiar with these things myself so I won't formally give too much advice but of course caffeine is a big part of some peoples' lives. I honestly think its perfectly fine in moderation, obviously no coffee an hour before sleeping.
I think the biggest thing is that EVERYONE has done the above things. It is easy to eat healthy, hit the gym, go to sleep on time, etc here and there. The key (and perhaps the most difficult part) is doing those things consistently. You are training your body to do a relatively serious task and thriving on 6 hours of sleep (I think everyone should regularly shoot for 6 hours, 8 is kind of pushing it and those fucking crazy CEOs that sleep 3 hours a night are either bullshitting or just lucky that they can handle it).
Coffee and caffeine pills are magical weapons against feeling tired.
Quality of sleep over quantity of sleep
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