is MBB consulting now better than BB Ibanking?
There is a lot of discussion regarding MBB consulting vs. BB Ibanking, and the general concensus is basically that IB pays more but more hours, exit opp to PE and MBB pays less but better hours and feeder to top Bschools.
However, check out this http://managementconsulted.com/consulting-jobs/20…
seems like consulting salaries at around 80k first year out of ungrad is pretty good. most of all, the perks of the giant salaries that IB once had pre-recession is slowly fading away. it seems like that's the reason a lot of HYPW kids are turning more and more to MBB instead.
discussion?
So you're saying that this (
) didn't settle the argument once and for all?
Those "giant salaries" that IB "once had pre-recession" are actually the same or higher.. it is the bonuses that have gone down as a % of base salary--base salary is around $70-85k, similar to consulting salary.. the difference is in banking, you will likely make $110-170k in all-in compensation if you are at a top firm.
Also, speaking as a consultant-turned banker.. you will realize that the hours are not REALLY that much less in consulting.. you are still working 80 hours a week, not including the traveling (which is not fun after the first couple times).. working 12-25% more in hours for 60-100% more in compensation was worth it to me.
As far as learning, you learn much different skill sets. Both have been very helpful to me and will continue to be as I progress in my career. Consulting teaches you more big picture qualitative skill sets, banking teaches you more detail-oriented quantitative skill sets (though it is not so black and white, they both cross over a bit too).
Moreover, it is much easier to switch from banking to consulting than the other way around, so if you have the opportunity to get into banking first and try it out, do it.
Why?
I mean, typically there are two routes:
A) MBA I think we can all agree that your shot to land a spot at HBS & Co are much better coming from MBB than anywhere else. First of all business schools just love consultants and hand out numerous spots to them - and second, there's simply a much smaller number of people in MBB consulting than in high finance, hence their smaller applicant pool works to the consultants' advantage. Once you're a Wharton, what's gonna hold you back?
B) Direct lateral I've found MBB recruiting to be at least as selective as BB recruiting. These are all smart kids, and they've proven their work ethic in consulting. Attractive candidates, no? Now, Morgan Stanley has over 60.000 employees - BCG has about 5000... How many banks are there? How many management consultancies are there? #B>#MC If you assume roughly the same % of people wants to switch, again that works better for the guys coming from consulting. But let's not kid ourselves: IB job security, bonus and image have all suffered, so the IB->MC route should be trending right about now.
I've never tried to switch to IB, and I never would. But I'm curious since you apparently made the switch - why do you believe IB->MC to be "much easier" than MC->IB?
Just so we're clear..MS's "60,000 employees" are not in IB.
About the MBA, if you want to only consider MBB as the selection for applicants to top MBA programs, then it makes sense to do the same for banking (GS, MS, JPM, Lazard). In that sense, I would venture to argue that placements at top programs is pretty well split between banking/consulting. But once you start getting into the next tier of banking (Jefferies, Cowen, etc.) / consulting firms (ATK, Booz, LEK), you start to see more consultants placed vs. bankers.
Why is that? I was told by my dean of admissions that consultants usually have better participation/insight during case studies as the work done at MBA programs is more about high-level strategic decisions. But I am sure each dean of admissions has her own reasoning.
Also, MBB recruiting is certainly as selective as BB recruiting. But regarding the direct lateral point.. BBs may have over 60,000 employees, but only a fraction are in the investment banking division. For example, IBD is only 1 of 13 divisions at Goldman Sachs. But even then, you are probably right that "high finance" has more people in general. Though, I would be interested to see how that split changes by geography; in Asia, consulting is not as valued as in the US/Europe for senior management, but financing is universally required to run businesses regardless of location.
I also had a conversation with a director at my bank about this. She told me that it is much harder to re-train IBD Associates that come from consulting to do adequate jobs in banking because there is very little substitute for the grinding Analyst years. However, when I was in consulting, we had several bankers join the team and it was much easier for them to grasp the skills required in consulting.. the skills required are more qualitative/high-level strategic than in banking (which, from a career development standpoint, is easier; bankers started off doing more detail-oriented quantitative work and then progress to more high-level big picture work in consulting vs. consultants starting off doing more big picture work and then going back to the fundamentals of finance).
Also, consulting firms have strong corporate finance (such as McKinsey) and private equity due diligence (such as Bain/LEK) teams that tend to pluck finance professionals. Banks rarely have "strategic advisory groups" (though some do).
That is why I believe it is easier to make the switch from IBD->Consulting. But there are so many dynamics that can alter ones chances to make the switch..
Just so we're clear..BCG's "5.000 employees" are not all consultants.
Point is there's more people in IB than in MC. More in the top tier - and a hell of a lot more in the 2nd tier. (Booz, AT Kearney, Roland Berger and Oliver Wyman all have less than 3.000 employees - including research, graphics, secretaries and whatnot.)
Lionwater - good points, fair enough.
BCG Consultants = 5,600. Source: http://www.bcg.com/about_bcg/history/history_2011.aspx
McK is ~ 9,000/17,000 total, showing that the "operations" type people in these firms is a much lower percentage than at the banks. (I don't have the data there, but I assure you there are not 30,000 IB employees @ MS).
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