Is MPS in applied economics at Cornell's Dyson school a good program?
Hi guys, I just got an offer from Cornell's Dyson School of Applied Economics to its MPS in Applied Economics.
I noticed that the starting salary is quite low (60k) and only 45% have full time employment 6 months after graduation. https://dyson.cornell.edu/programs/graduate/mps/c…
I was expecting around 100k starting salary so this is a mystery to me. Do you know why the career prospect seems so bad at Dyson MPS? Is this a good idea to enroll in this program?
Cornell has been launching quite a few masters programs of late. A few reasons for the stats:
1) It's a new program w/o an alumni or recruiter network.
2) It's a cash cow for foreign students to come to Cornell for a degree, expect to see int'l placement w/ salary lower than domestic placement. No surprise the programs top employers are ex-US.
3) Expect to see students going straight form undergrad and recruit for jobs that undergrads get.
4) I'm not sure where the US students get place, may also be a factor.
Yeah that's my concern. It seems the vast majority of students are international students (mainly from China) and the program seems to be intended to make cash for the school.
If I can get the return (say, a six figures after graduation) then this sounds good but even the US work authorized making just 67k is a major concern.
Also, compared to MBA and even MS, there doesn't seem to be a lot of information. Only few companies are posted as employers and the only one I know among them is Deloitte.
I am typing from my phone, so please ignore the grammar/spelling mistakes.
As the other poster said, this degree is a income generator for the foreign students. I was into this program myself but ended up not applying. The average salary of 66k out of cornell is the same thing you would be getting as an UG. Only good prt about this program for the MPS program is the additional semester of MiIM degree - Masters in international Management in the CEMS network. I would do the additional semester to get HEC Paris/Boconni/LSE (and many others) on your resume on top of Cornell. If you are a US student already, I do not see a value in this program as it has not kicked off yet. Unless you are really into Applied Econ.
Hi, so I'm an international student coming from Europe.
I got invited to apply to this program and got accepted. I went to a well known university in my country (think the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Spain), but I want to work in finance in the US.
If this program or the "Cornell brand" (if it exists) helps me land a high paying job in wall street, I'll take it. But I can probably make 60k USD right here without going to Cornell, so that's why I haven't decided yet.
I have almost no work experience. I did work as an intern for a year for a fintech company.
What would you do if you were in my situation?
While the brand does exist, the program will raise a lot of eyebrows and make it difficult for you to get a job in the states on wall street. If anything this is a pretty bad path. You will mostly land jobs in the back office of wall street or in a public policy roles in economics. My schools placement in applied econ is mostly all for the government in labor statistics or economic research. Also similar placement for johns hopkins and georgetown.
Knowing that you were accepted into Cornell, i expect you to have a good GRE score. You might be able to use it and pursue MFIN directly. Much wiser route if you want to work middle/front office in NY.
Additionally, from what I noticed from job search as well is that if you do decide to pursue economic roles, most jobs in US ex: economist at Amazon, require a PhD. The phenomena of masters in Econ/applied econ is new and has not really adapted yet with the US firms.
Cornell alumni here, I know the program very well, a friend actually got to the MS. program. Now when it comes to attending, I would strongly advise AGAINST it. This program is a complete rip-off for both domestic and international students. Don’t get fooled by Cornell brand. What you will get is a Cornell grad. diploma but that’s it. It will be very difficult to get offers even from known F500 and don’t even think IB/Consulting. It ain’t happening. What you need to do is to get a solid GRE and target for UK (LSE, LBS or Oxbridge) and other top US programs like MIT MFin etc. since you don’t want EU schools like Bocconi. Feel free to pm.
Thanks!
For whatever reason I can't send a PM (something about limit) so I'll just reply here.
My GRE is low-90 percentile and I briefly considered applying to LSE/Oxford but decided against it as my goal is to work in the US so I thought I should apply to an American program.
The main reason I applied to Dyson MPS is because I had published my scores on ETS and the school contacted me. The tuition is a lot cheaper than MFin at Sloan so I thought why not.
Could you elaborate on this program being a rip off? I'll be asked to pay to secure a spot in like a week and I'm unsure about it. Obviously it's a lot of money for me so I'm thinking about the ROI.
If I can't make at least 6 figures I feel like it's hard to justify the cost. I was thinking maybe the network at Cornell/brand might help me to land a job.
Sure no problem. Here’s the thing, don’t get me wrong, you might still get some offers obviously if you network you a$$ off. (however, not by using the program because it is very new, not a lot of alumni). I know a few people who landed IB jobs at BB even from no name schools. But the thing is that it is not going to give you the advantage you are looking for. If you are thinking something like ‘hey I went to this school and program for my graduate studies and it helped me a lot landing this job’ nope, it is not gonna happen. It won’t give you the edge for IB/Conslt. you’re looking for. So no salaries with 6 figures unfortunately, especially for internationals. When it comes to being a rip off, I did not attend the program myself but as a Cornell graduate and knowing people who attended the program and the program itself, without going into much detail I simply can say it is not good, the MPS thing might sound good but not so good to the recruiters. And also another important thing, I would say don’t put your expectations too high even for the time you study there. Now when it comes to tuitions, like you said you gotta look at the ROI. MIT and other similar schools give you the best ROI because you still going to pay 50K+ tuition even for most of the mediocre programs and get an average job. So why not invest a bit more and get a much greater return. Honestly if I were you, I would find a good school but also a good program because school name is everything goes for post-undergrad not for post-grad opportunities. Don’t be hooked on the brand name.
Yeah I get what you're saying the problem for me was that since I'm an international, most loans aren't available to me so I have to come up with the tuition here.
I don't know about the US, but almost no one goes to school taking loans here, so I can't borrow a lot. If I want to go to MFin at MIT or Vanderbilt, I'll need to work for a few years to save money at which point I might as well apply to MBA.
You said you have a friend who did MS in Applied Econ right? Is the MS different from MPS in terms of employment outcomes?
I was fortunate enough to get some good scholarships. So I don’t know a lot about loans. However, I know 2 guys from Europe (France and Spain) who did their master’s with loans in US. So that’s very possible. Btw Vanderbilt is a great school I must say. They have great placements after graduation for IB and Conslt. And I think they have almost the same tuition fee with Cornell around 60k. Would consider that seriously. There are also other similar MFin programs in US. Just gotta check them out. Yes, my friend was at the MS. Even though they are very similar and what I said goes for both, unfortunately I can say that MPS is slightly worse than MS in terms of employment outcomes. But like I said I would not recommend any of these two, especially MPS. Given your profile you should consider places you mentioned.
Thanks for thé advice.
Based on the recommendation here, I'll most likely get a job here or do some internships and then apply to Vanderbilt or MIT. I haven't taken GMAT but based on my GRE, I think I'll be at least competitive at those schools as well.
Also, there's uncertainties surrounding the visa situation due to the current policies of the current president (I don't have interest in US politics but I read that he's stopping work visa) and the coronavirus, maybe it's a good idea to wait a year to see how things go.
Sounds like a cash cow program just based on the stats. You can't compare the undergrad reputation of a school vs its various different grad programs. Even places like Columbia have cash cow masters programs like this that are a lot less worthwhile than the brand would suggest. There are a lot of internationals who are willing to pay top dollar for an education visa and brand school degree regardless of the actual value of the program. There are even a pretty large amount of internationals with Porsches who are willing to pay that to come to my state school in a cold, out of the way place lol.
I considered applying to MA at Columbia and Duke but the tuitions at those schools were too high and they're two yewr programs.
I also got an offer from a place called the University of Pittsburgh to its MS in finance program. Do you know it's a cash cow as well? I applied because they waved the fee and encouraged me to apply so I don't know any
I'm not an expert. What's your goal with the program? I know the Duke MA is actually good prep to get a economics PhD but I doubt that's what you're interested in. The reasons I could think of for a professional masters right out of college would be either to give you quant and programming skills (ie masters in financial engineering/princeton mfin) for a markets role or to make up for going to a really nontarget undergrad.
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