Is over 30 too old for an MSF?
Is over 30 too old for an MSF?
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If in the US, yes, get an MBA.
Depends on the facts and circumstances. In general, it's not that helpful beyond your 20s, but I know several very accomplished people in their 30s, even 40s, doing MSFs.
Could you elaborate on this? Also, which MSFs? I imagine MIT, Princeton or Vandy right? I'm thinking Vandy.
I'm thinking the top five programs. Princeton, CMU, NYU, Cornell, and Stanford are probably worth it. My experience is with the Princeton campus, but I'd imagine you've got a few thirty-somethings at the other top five schools.
What is your goal with your career? How does an MSF help?
We need to summon ANT.
Long term: high level Institutional Salesman at a bank and then perhaps work on the buyside as a buyside trader.
You don't need an MSF for that. An MBA might be helpful.
Vandy is definitely much much more of a gamble in terms of worth at this age than the others that IP mentioned.
If you want to work in corporate finance or something similar the MSF might be a nice MBA substitute for you. Personally, I think an MSF from the usual suspects is about equal to a lower ranked MBA. Many schools will also let you do an MBA in one year if you already have an MSF.
Problem is that most of these MSF programs are during the day. BC has a great night time program, Drexel has one if you are in Philly, UHouston is for working professionals, as well as a ton others. If you are looking for a graduate business degree to advance your career you should probably not take a year off unless absolutely necessary.
In summary, you need to figure out what is up before you sign on the line.
I would have to disagree with that statement: unless you have a heavy corporate finance background, it won't help you transition as people in corp. fin. may probably look at you as too technical.
Agree, but my point is that if you want to work in a career outside of investment banking the MSF is often looked at as an MBA substitute.
@TNA: Thanks for your advice.
@Illini: For Sales or on the buyside as a trader, you don't think it's safe to do a shorter MSF? I ask this because the MBA takes longer and includes courses that I couldn't care less about. All I care about is Finance and markets.
Is that rolodex and are those relationships worth $160K and two years on their own? I don't know. I do know that we hire a few MBAs into sales, although most are undergrads (very few if any have other graduate degrees.)
A top five MSF/MFE is worth it for a quant, a trader, a risk manager, an analytics guy; maybe a guy in research. For sales, there's a lot more value in an MBA.
Oh OK. Thanks.
Also, crazy question: Is Institutional Sales going to be around much longer? Someone mentioned that computers don't need someone to pitch ideas to them. So over time could the Salesman go the way of Bud Fox?
Dr. Phil Voice:
You are thirty years old and you have a screen name of TraderDaily. You show up here without any research about what an MSF gets you. You think institutional sales is what will make you happy; then you worry that it might not be around much longer.
So basically what I am hearing from this conversation is that you don't have a direction, you don't have a view on the economy, you don't know what makes you happy. You are a 30-year-old adult who pays his rent and utility bills every month, earns a salary, and regularly makes decisions about his life and takes full responsibility for them, but when it comes to school, you are acting as wishy-washy and as indecisive as a 20-year-old college kid.
So here is my advice:
1.) Figure out what makes you happy. Is it really finance? 2.) If you have the money, I think an MBA will make you happier than an MSF unless your passion is truly finance and not business.
Dude a roladex from b-school isnt worth anything to a senior sales guy who will be hiring you as an associate. Your friends from b-school will not be accounts worth covering for many years and unless this is a retail brokerage house you will be asked to help out with existing accounts not bring in your own. Your job is going to be to do things like hang out with clients your boss doesnt want to entertain, pick up the phones occasionally, make sure the trades get booked, get research for clients, etc...connections dont mean anything.
But that said an msf is not needed for sales and you should try to find another way in that doesnt involve paying so much money and wasting a year.
How much will you have to rely on OCR?
I would likely need to rely on OCR extensively given how structured the hiring is for what I want to do.
Would love to hear what others think. I'm seriously considering LBS's MiF as an alternative to an MBA as I can't take more than a year off for personal reasons. I'll likely rely on networking for my job search though as recruiting is less structured for what I do. Maybe I can do HBS's AMP later if I pursue this route.
Yeah. I'm not US based.
Outside of LBS' MiF, European MSFs are pre-experience. There are a few people with work experience in my program and I have 3 years under my belt which has actually been hurting me in recruiting (despite the fact that I'm a year older tops than my classmates).
GoodBread,
What types of roles are you going for and why do you think your experience has hurt you (i.e. do you not fit into one of the recruiting silos, i.e. as an associate, etc..)?
I'll have circa 8 years experience at enrolment, so I'm pretty sure I won't fit into any standard boxes and will have to network into a job (hopefully at the VP level).
I'm shooting for summer analyst/roles and basically entry-level stuff. I have 3 years of back-office experience and I'm basically trying to start over professionally speaking. 5 years of back-office experience weren't going to get me into an MBA business schools ">M7 MBA so I decided to do an MSF before it was too late. The questions of whether I would feel uncomfortable working on the bottom of the food chain again has come up a few times and despite my assurance that I would rather be at the bottom of that particular company and that it wouldn't matter, it seems it might be a sticking point.
Let me echo what has been said above in various posts. A top MBA is the ticket to the dance, but an MSF can help you get the work experience that will help you get into a top MBA. The issue is that at the age of 30 you don't really have the time to play hop scotch with things. At 30 the MSF will essentially be your terminal degree, with the exception of a PT or Executive MBA.
If you want to stay in sales, then sell. Institutional Sales roles are about your Rolodex and your selling ability, not your degree. I don't know of any MSF (with exception of MIT) that will help you break into a sales role at 30 without relevant experience.
30 is not too old for an MSF.
And what ANT said.
Wow, lol. Next time I need a building leveled I will call in IP to drop a bomb.
Sorry, I don't mean to be too direct or abrasive, but for some odd reason I feel the need to take a Dr. Phil approach in this thread. I don't see a person who knows what he wants or where the world is going, and I don't see a recipe for sound decision making on OP's part, which he seems to be on the verge of making.
This is very frustrating to watch, because it's not going to end in a decision that the OP will be happy to own- even if it somehow works out.
OP needs to sloowww down, back off a few steps, and follow the process:
1.) Figure out what makes you happy. 2.) Do some research about how to get there. 3.) Return to step 1 until you have a complete picture of the landscape. 4.) Make decisions based on that research. 5.) Accept responsibility for the outcome of those decisions. 6.) Go back to step 1. (7.) If in doubt, you can always take a vow of poverty and become a Jesuit priest or (if not of a western religion) a Buddhist monk. They're generally pretty happy.
If the OP must make a decision, an MBA does a better job of preserving OP's optionality. But it's only worth it from a top ~10 school.
That was amazing. +1
How much would it cost to get IP to be my life coach? I'm 25 but suffer from the same type of indecision.
Thanks. You're just talking to someone who misses Finance and doesn't want to do law.
^^^^i would start by trying to find people on wall st who went to your law school. my guess is that they will understand your plight and be receptive to helping out. Keep in mind that the job market isnt exactly smoking right now so I wouldnt go quitting your current job until you have some good leads...i also wouldnt give up an actual paying gig to go back to school for a year or two on the hope that it is better then. You will feel mighty stupid if you are tending bar in a year or two down alot of money.
Yes, I am doing this. And yes, I def understand the ramifications of going to school in a bad economy and then not being able to get a decent job. Plus, I def don't want to spend 100K+ on another degree that doesn't matter to a senior sales rep. I'm also reaching out to undergrad alumni.
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