So as full time recruiting is winding down, and the prospects of landing that elusive IB job seems to be passing partially due to the miserable job market... what are people in the class of 2009 looking to for other job options? Most of us who managed to make it through part of the IB interview process are well qualified. Our resumes should be solid for many other jobs. Where are people applying, what types of positions, and how are you going about applying?
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im seriously contemplating staying in school another year..
personally i'm applying to anything i can. The best thing I'm looking at that isn't Banking is a job at Swiss Re, which is similar to Banking in what you actually do (modeling company comparables, DCF, etc) but is all for reinsurance products. or something, its kind of confusing. But it seems like a good position to go to as Swiss Re is very well capitalized and the guys I have talked to have lots of deals currently because of the meltdown. I don't know if other insurance companies have this sort of position.
I'm also interviewing for Real Estate investment Banking, which I hadn't really thought about doing, but the place I'm interviewing with has a private equity arm with 5 billion in cash that i would get to work with so definitely looking at it.
Out of curiosity, when you say Real Estate Investment Banking are you talking about traditional IB (m&a, raising capital etc.) focused on the Real Estate industry or a Real Estate Capital Markets platform (investment sales, debt placement, J/V equity etc. similar to what you might see at Jones Lang Lasalle or Cushman & Wakefield) which is also sometimes referred to as Real Estate IB? I only ask because you listed it as an "alternative" (which if its the former, it really isn't) and I'm somewhat interested in both.
I'm looking at M3 Capital Partners, who do Traditional IB as you call it, but also has a private equity arm where they invest capital in Real Estate. Its not really an alternative, I just hadn't really thought about doing Real Estate before this year, I was more focused on traditional IB. When I met with them though it really seemed like a great place to spend the next however many years, since I will get really good PE experience.
To the guy that said look in other cities, I have definitely looked everywhere under the sun. The only place that I rejected based solely on the city it was in was this place called the Fortress Group (no, not the good Fortress group) in Atlanta. I just couldn't bring myself to do a couple years there.
If I were you guys, I would be looking into shops all over the country, not just major cities like NY/LA/CHI/HOUSTON, but be willing to relocate to smaller cities, ie Minneapolis, Cleveland, St. Louis etc...If I didn't have an offer in NYC, I would surely be looking in these areas.
Not saying that the opportunities are galore here, but as someone who goes to a non target school in one of the less major cities, I know that some of the local investment banks would kill to have someone from a top 20 school, even in this environment. Not saying that it'd be a sure thing either, just saying that I wouldn't necessarily give up. From my friends at Princeton and Harvard, sounds like it's a tough year for sure....but honestly, I would just keep trying for the next few months.
I would also be looking for F500 corp jobs or AM firms, which are generally a bit easier to get than IB, especially in this market, though still tough I imagine. Having a brand name on your resume is better than nothing, and perhaps you could network your way into a the Bus Dev. group. I would take a decent offer, but still keep looking at banking opportunities, and keeping in touch with my network all over.
I know I may be a bit overly optimistic, but trying to get into a top bank for my SA was no walk in the park, but I just kept my head up and kept pounding doors till someone told me no. I realize conditions have changed since early Feb, but if this is something you really want, you have nothing to lose.
Good luck -
Where are you finding these job postings?
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Could not agree more. I am just applying to anything that would get me into a top 10 biz school program 2-3 years from now. Looking forward, I hope that Wall Street will be back up and running in 5 years.
have you guys considered working at the world bank? bschools love that experience and you don't get taxed on your pay, and you get paid decently.
Male Gigolo?
To those of you still looking, take a long, hard look at Financial Leadership Programs. They are typically fast-tracks into management positions and have success placing into quality business schools. I've seen some people move from these programs to banking after going to get their MBA.
~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker
Problem is a lot of the Financial Leadership programs are done recruiting for the year. For the ones that may still be recruiting it is even more difficult this year as the larger firms (J&J, GE, Raytheon) with very respected programs have reduced hiring this year and cut back incoming classes. One of my very good friends is an incoming FMP at GE and he said that the class size is smaller then last years was.
Move to Hollywood and take up acting?
Equities in Dallas
If your goal is to get into a top b-school, then don't limit yourself to finance unless you absolutely love it and can get lucky with what little decent jobs are left.
I mentioned this to someone offline -- but I think it's worth mentioning here, with the benefit of some hindsight.
The BIGGEST asset many of you have now is your youth. It's not money. It's the fact that you're young. You can afford to take the biggest risks with the least consequences.
If you were to poll all the middle-aged (i.e. 40+) dudes going through midlife crises and ask them what they wish they would've done differently in their 20s, most would likely say that they wish they took more risks when they were young.
If that means being a gigolo, go for it haha. Or an actor. Open a dive shop in Costa Rica. Become a bartender. Or whatever. Do something crazy. Start a business. Go after your dreams, no matter how crazy they may be. Your future middle-aged self will thank you for it.
I used to work with an attorney in my previous job who prior to his lawyering spent the entire 1980s playing professionally in a touring rock band. They weren't huge, but he was able to eke out a modest living as a single dude. Then he got married, went to law school, became an attorney, and is currently the general counsel for a very exclusive film studio. One thing that struck me about him was how happy he was - he was not a bitter, jaded lawyer. Being an attorney may not be his life's passion, but he enjoys it and it helps provide for his family. And he mentioned to me that the best thing in hindsight he ever did was spending his young life as a touring musician. He has ZERO regrets, no midlife crises, and is happy being a family man now.
In a weird and perverse way, treat this downturn as an opportunity to try something different. You're not missing out on a whole lot trying to get a banking job where you're pitching all the time, or trying to get staffed on what little deals/transactions that are actually closing, and so forth.
And when it comes to money, again money can buy a lot of things, but it can't buy time. And it certainly can't buy youth (but plenty of middle-aged dudes try real hard to and it just looks kind of sad). The last thing you should be worrying about is making coin over and above what can cover your rent, basic expenses, etc.
Plenty of finance folks that you've seen - whether they be associates, VPs, MDs, or partners, etc have sold out their youth for money. Sure, they'll be rich when they're 40, but no amount of money can buy back time to be a young twentysomething again with no real responsibilities. Most of you have something that so many billionaires don't have and wish they have - the freedom of youth.
Alex Chu
excellent post. One of the most valuable things I learned over the summer from MDs/VPs was their view of this. You can always come back to this field as an associate or lateral in as an analyst one year down the line. As dosk17 mentions in his blog, take a year off and become a ski bum. It won't do any arm and you might actually be very glad you did it 10 years down the line.
Pharmaceuticals/Healthcare
Economic/Litigation consulting is good if you like doing research, and the major firms place well into good b schools.
Consulting/Trading
I've looked into management consulting as a backup plan
man, i just wish i had something i dreamed about enough to actually want to do it instead of shoving myself up the corporate asshole. kind of sad, but after 4 years of college the only thing i've become is apathetic.
to play devil's advocate though to alex...i do sometimes wonder about the people who chased their dreams and failed. for example, a very smart teacher i had in my freshman writing seminar in college also spent the 90s touring in a rock band, same kind of situation. eventually the band disbanded, he got married, kids, and ended up in a non-tenure track shitty position that's even lower than a lecturer and seems kind of bitter.
i think sometimes doors do close, and just cuz you've met people who'va managed to break in non-traditionally doesn't mean it'll definitely happen.
but honestly i still agree with alex--life's too short not to chase the dream. now if only i had one to chase.
Alternatives to banking (Originally Posted: 11/05/2010)
What are the best alternatives for PE besides banking? Consulting? Venture Capital? Hedge Funds? Growth cap?
Does Asset Management work as well?
I would say consulting is the best alternative and the most realistic
Probably consulting, or having a connected family member. VC and HF don't make much sense, because there's no way in hell you'd want to go back to the sell side.
I'll also throw in military experience. I've met a couple guys who enlisted right after college, did their tour, then got into IB as an analyst.
Your other option is of course to do something altruistic for a while (save the whales, peace corps, teach for america, etc) and then go back and get your MBA before entering banking as an associate.
Anyone have an untraditional finance job? (Originally Posted: 03/17/2015)
I have been looking at the jobs available in the finance field recently and it kind of scared me how many hours you guys work! I was wondering if any of you have jobs outside of the traditional Investment Bank/Hedge Funds and how you have found your experiences. In particular I am looking for jobs that would let one travel(for business) and have a good work/life balance, while also doing interesting work.
sales trader! you get in at 7:30 am but out by 4pm at the very latest!
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