Article on Bloomberg right now discussing it. Would be an incredibly negative sign for the economic future of NYC.
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Boy, that sucks alot. They are an icon there in NYC. But if they do move, their Plano campus is legit.
Great, more housing inflation for Dallas...
Equities in Dallas?
Could be a win for the people. Lots of fun cities out there that are infinitely less expensive
So true. The media reports indicate that these will be almost entirely back office jobs. I don't know about you but if I was in JPM's back office, commuting an hour each way from long island or whatever, paying NYS income and property taxes, dealing with 6 months of winter, etc, and someone told me my job was moving to a warm climate, with short commutes, lower taxes and far more affordable housing I don't think I'd be too broken up about it.
I would be totally upset by it
Nah....would never move to another city
Old news....already been discussed over and over on Blind 2-3 months ago
"For JPMorgan employees, a move comes with some perks. In New York’s Tribeca neighborhood, $1.05 million will get you a 605-square-foot, one-bedroom apartment with an open kitchen, windowless bathroom and shared roof deck. In Plano, the same price gets you a 5,684-square-foot home with five bedrooms, six bathrooms, a 400-bottle wine room, a covered patio with wood-burning fireplace and a combined pool and spa." lol at city livers, just lol.
I find it telling though that descriptions of quality of life in TX cities always focus on the size of the house and it’s amenities. What about cultural activities, transportation access (besides driving), neighborhood character? Personally I put more value on those things than how many rooms my house has.
They are focusing on the size of the house because it is a great indicator to show how much further money can go in TX than NY.
That’s just one aspect of what your money should buy though. When I pay up for an apartment in NYC, I’m paying to be close to NYC amenities. I get less house size but more of the other things. In Texas it seems like all I get is house size.
Its a Bloomberg article, not a whitepaper on qualitative and quantitative benefits of moving to Texas.
Some of us can't stand living in urban centers, but to each their own.
Tell me about these magical amenities that are worth paying over $1,000 psf for, I really want to know...
Just one opinion, but when you go from young and single to married with kids (or kids on the way), metro-NYC's value proposition as a domicile just plummets. Your interest in bars and clubs vanishes, the premium you put on space (including green space) skyrockets, and with a move to the suburbs (doesn't matter if it's NY/NJ/CT) comes a painful commute and eye watering property taxes.
I mean, I can get a lot more bang for my buck by only eating at Denny's, but I still don't do it.
Manhatten will be underwater ina few decades anyway, makes sense to invest now and be able to blame it on the socialists.
What you say certainly holds true if you're young / single. Think about being in back office, middle aged, making NYC. If I were in that situation I would jump at the chance to keep my job and work somewhere affordable.
You mean stepping over homeless people and feces, congestion, high crime rate, freakshow people with 5 colors of hair and piercings and a mayor that can't read? Those culturally enriching aspects of NYC?
Oh that's easy. As someone that lives in the area and works right on the border of uptown and downtown, Dallas sucks. There's very little culture, just an abundance of restaurants and bars. Public transportation is virtually non existent relative to how spread out things are so you can count on being stuck in a car for large chunks of your day since you'll likely have to drive to a station to take a train anyways. And what conveniently gets left out of the discussion is the reason people talk about house size so much is you can expect to spend a lot of time in it. Early May - late October sees 100+ degrees every day usually, with it only cooling to high 80s at night; maybe a month of fall then it shifts to 30 degree temps until February/early March. And the downtown is essentially barren, you can easily walk 40-50 yards between people at any time of day, any time of year; it looks like they haven't really updated it since they filmed Robocop there in the 80s. I spent a week in D.C. late September and was walking around Georgetown/downtown every day and it was an enjoyable 60-80 degrees even at midday vs the wall of heat I experienced when I returned, 95 degrees at 7 pm like 2 days before October.
There's a reason people like the coasts more, because there's more to do, that's easier to access, in more enjoyable weather. Yeah you can fly out of Dallas to see other things, but for all you'd be missing, like pop up events by A list entertainers, you will either miss out on a ton or you might as well live in NYC.
Will more banks consider this in the future ? I heard that in 2014 miami was supposed to have a surge of new hedge funds but it never really happened however this seems like it could influence other banks to relocate.
I thought it did happen?
Tepper, Icahn, and Spitznagel all setup shop in Florida, surely many of the smaller fish followed suit, no?
From what I have heard it was overpromised and undelivered
JMP is building a campus in Plano, Texas. There are pros and cons to living in Texas. No state taxes but higher property taxes. I noticed a lot of companies moving to Texas since New York has a high cost of living.
This thread is about JPM. JMP doesn’t pay their guys enough to afford NYC anyway
Property taxes "higher" than those in NY/NJ/CT? I doubt it.
Weird how you’re seeing a lot more tech companies consider setting up shop in NYC the past few years and VCs pouring more money into NYC based startups as banks start to look elsewhere. Personally I fail to see how young professionals will want to move to Texas over New York
It's more of a talent thing. JPM Tech is going to be headquartered in Hudson Yards because the tech scene in NY is strong. No need to have back office occupy precious NYC real estate when you can get similar quality out in Texas
Everyone needs to understand that this is solely focused on back-office operations (compliance, legal, internal-finance, etc.) Some middle office functions are moving too (credit risk for example). However, this does NOT affect advisory/capital markets functions or S&T functions which will reside in NYC for the long-term foreseeable future (in the new massive headquarters that the firm has poured hundreds of millions into as a long-term bet on NYC), as they are client facing and require top talent which would be impossible to attract in Plano TX.
Exactly this. 270 Park is being demolished rn as we speak to build the new NYC HQ which will house front office CIB functions.
For the record it is not just for BO. There will be some FO roles being migrated and more importantly JPM already has regional IB and Corp Banking coverage in Dallas and ATL. I’ve heard it’s mainly Heath care consumer retail and energy. Nonetheless, I would move in a heart beat. This all comes down to personal values and goals and this topic is discussed on forums and in the news ad nauseam but it’s all relative
Some people will go to great lengths on living anywhere else than NY doesn’t make sense for people earlier in their careers especially for finance while I’m in the group where I think it makes zero sense to live in NYC but you get paid the same (minus maybe 10% ) living in low COL. For me if I think having a great quality of life (nice 800sq ft apartment zero roommates, vacations,museums visits,sporting events,etc) id rather have more $$ to throw at those things than having to cut back because $2500-$3000+ in rent just to save 10-20 minutes on a commute.
There has been no confirmation of front office roles being relocated. It's speculation, and of course there are different FO roles in places like Dallas (corporate banking, etc.). However, it simply doesn't make sense to move advisory from NY. I can possibly see hiring local healthcare regional teams, but the main coverage groups will remain in NY. Additionally, any capital markets groups will always remain in NY as they are centralized deal-executing roles (LevFin or ECM for example).
You will not be paid the same.. The professionals that are moving now from NYC to Plano will have the same salary for ~2 years and then it will be adjusted by COL (~20% down).
They actually even allocated a section of the new building design specifically for S&T (on the floors directly after the server rooms).
FO will stay, MO / BO / Ancillary functions will leave. That's not to say we'll be hiring way more FO roles either though given the recessionary ideas floating around in the short term future.
As Jewish person I'd rather live on a raft in East River than live in fucking Texas.
I’m a Jew from NY area, moved to TX a few years back.
Life is better
lol
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1073871
This is the city you like ? .....can’t even have a slice a duck fat to cleanse my palate without the government interfering
Lol
Blessing in disguise for many employees. I have no idea how the majority of these types of people afford to live in NYC in the first place. At some point living in a shoebox or commuting 2.5 hours a day just isn’t worth it.
Enjoy Kansas motherfuckers
i hear it's nice this time of year
I work for JPM. Back-office jobs moving out of New York is nothing new. It has been going on for years; however, in the video she talks about the possibility of moving junior investment bankers out of NY, so that is something to keep an eye on.
Yes but I can't see them moving all junior investment bankers to Texas. For example I don't see how it would make sense to move the M&A/sponsors team there or even FIG (might seem random but just can't really see a bunch of junior FIG bankers all the way out in Texas while all their clients are all still in NY along with Associate/VP/M) but O&G and natural resources maybe makes more sense. Just my thoughts though.
Tbh, I don't see why the entire industry should be in the US or the West in the first place, except it's about looks and accents also. Some of my friends have worked with consultants staffed in cheaper locations such as India and China. Those poor chaps get paid in local currency at local rates, so you see MBB 1st analysts making like $20-25k annual and associates at sub $50k. A king's wage in places like Malaysia and India, but literally nothing much outside. Yet they get staffed on intl projects more than local ones.
Think a good number of those folk would enjoy that - NYC living is overrated IMO
Has been a slow but study trend for a long time, and it makes absolute sense. No reason to have a lot of back office roles in NYC when you can just gave them in Delaware, Baltimore, and just about wherever.
I don't think NYC has anything to fear in the short-term but over the long run, the financial industry is slowing but surely trickling out.
I use these calculators all the time I have a hard time seeing how I would get a 128% raise to move to NYC doing the same Corp Fin stuff I do now so.... I remain in Dallas. :-)
They are a good benchmark but I wouldn't necessarily equate it to 128% salary raise or I can't accept it.
For example there is no way I pay 29% more in NYC for transportation than I would in Plano Texas having to own a car.
Entertainment AND Food Costs both going up 30 / 42% is a bit ridiculous too. Yeah I would go to bars / eat out in NYC more but a night out is followed by $2 in pizza. And I would think in texas I would definitely still eat out / order in / go to bars.
It's nice now and then but no way am I paying $16 / drink at a rooftop bar in Manhattan every time I go out in NYC... Those are the things that inflate these averages a bit more though.
Wait,
So now equities in Dallas is a good thing?
Yes...stepping over human fecies , sleeping in a over priced small box just to hear that drunk girl yelling at 3am, side stepping the homeless, all while giving half your paycheck to poorly ran democratic state
Yes equities ,PE , and IB is significantly better in TX
Little did we know everyone working in Dallas were the ones who started "Equities in Dallas," in order to keep all the New York clowns out
Does this mean more job openings in Plano? Or simply transferring jobs out of New York?
lots of job openings - from what I can see, the majority of the transfers are being turned down.
People don’t want to uproot their lives. Lot of the back office folks at banks are multigenerational local New Yorkers. They’re tied to this city for better or worse.
They are focusing on the size of the house because it is a great indicator
Solid opportunity for someone looking to save some cash for B-school... food for thought.
Philadelphia is a great city within a 30 minute drive/train to Wilmington.
Philly sucks
I’m an incoming 2020 full time for a MO function at JPM (signed and my offer letter says it’s for NYC), but several analysts have left from my division and they’re transferring a large portion of the team to Plano.
I understand employment is at-will, but does anyone have insight (or opinions) on if JPM would potentially transfer my incoming full time role to Plano despite the offer letter saying NYC?
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