Hi all,
I'm contemplating making the switch from LevFin into AM and am looking for hard numbers on what someone could expect (comp and hours) from a large global asset manager in Fixed Income portfolio management. Not interested in PE, but am interested in portfolio management preferably with HY/Distressed/Converts/Structured Credit. This would be from somewhere like BLK, NB, PIMCO, TRowe, Nuveen, PGIM, AB, etc... I know that I should expect a pay cut, but by how much. I know places like Vanguard and SEI underpay significantly so those are off my list. I'd like to join at the associate level. Please provide base/bonus numbers at any of these shops that were in portfolio management/investing roles and preferably how yours were.
Thanks in advance.
Bump
bump
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I dont have any data points, sorry about that. But H1B hires must have their salary disclosed. This website can be very useful, and for large companies you can get quite a few data points, usually in the department you're looking in.
hope this helps, let us know your findings!
https://h1bdata.info/
Thanks, I used that already though haha. I'm looking for total comp numbers so I can get a sense of what my bonus will be looking like. I know I'll likely take a 20-ish% hit on salary. Bonus numbers have been all over the place in this forum though, so focusing on obtaining figures from large AM shops. Even the banks' AM platforms (GSAM/MSIM/JPMIM) will help too since they're direct competition.
Honestly, if you get a first round interview, is there any harm with first asking them their total comp range and then throwing your number out there? Feel like that's not the worst thing, saves everyone headache of course.
What range are you making now and what year are you?
At my firm on the fixed income side (we have plain vanilla IG AAA corporate analysts to more distressed analysts and high yield analysts) the base salaries tend to be consistent with the major dispersion coming from the revenue sharing and bonus allocations. This is how it goes in a city like NYC:
1-3 years out of school, base salary: $105k-125k
3-6 years out of school, $150k-196k
6-10 years out of school, $196k - $250k
PM's, usually base salary still of around $270k with monthly or quarterly revenue sharing agreements that add to this.
For analysts that are not tied to a specific fund and who's faces are not on specific pitchbooks that are given to investors and whose departure from the firm would not lead to massive outflows, they are usually paid roughly 50-60% bonus of base salary. All in compensation is very variable after that because this is an AUM and recurring fee type of business not like PE/HF where you get a part of the returns. You can have shitty analysts on a $60 billion investment grade fund at Franklin Templeton who were State University trained out earn Harvard/Goldman trained analysts at a $2 billion super esoteric/high yield type of fund at Wellington/Neuberger Berman/PIMCO because of the massive fees that are being generated.
If you are being recruited or interviewing for a specific asset management's fund or team, you could get a good idea of how much they earn based off their AUM that the fund or team manages. If you are however getting hired into a generalist resource analyst pool where you are just doing security analyst for the firm and then that research is disseminated to the PM's then this is where you take a big cut since you are not part of a revenue pool.
I have seen pretty average finance kids luck out on career trajectory and earnings by after completing the training program at one of the AM's, then landing on a spot on a large team with lots of AUM. Their skills are par for the course, but they have engrained themselves in the team's investment process and culture and thus get a piece of the revenue share.
So in conclusion, if you get hired on to a specific team then you can get a good idea of how much money you will make by the bps the products charges and the team's AUM. If you're not part of a team, then you are dispensable and that's where you take the pay cuts.
Thanks for the deets! Roughly how much firm AUM are we talking here? Is this for a 50b-250b, 250b-750b, or 750b+ sized firm? Also would you say those numbers, at least on the base level, are standard for most large AM shops in NY, banks' AM as well? 150-196k for starting to senior associate is banking salary numbers at EBs. Seems high to me.
Also how would you say hours are for an associate on the team? 55-ish?
$700B-900B type of shop. Our comp is aligned and similar to bank owned asset managers. And I would say minus IB VP's (whose base salary these days are close to $250k and where you can get to that level with 6 years at an IB) I would say that in the 1-5 years out of school, large asset managers tend to match the base salary of IBD analysts and associates. Yes they work 55-60 hours, but remember that they are getting more closer to 60% bonuses.
As I mentioned, given your background, as an immediate hire you would probably be pretty inconsequential to potential outflows if you were to leave, so expect an all in pay cut. If you can see yourself getting to a junior PM level within 10 years, then this pay can match the pay of IBD MD's.
Thank you for the insight.
1) Does that mean at most AM places (Fido, TRowe, JPMAM, etc etc) where the analyst pool is mostly shared by multiple PMs, they shouldn't expect much payout even if their ideas perform well?
2) For the shops where the analyst/PM track is separated (i.e. no internal mechanism to rotate analyst into different sectors or promote them to PM), what does an analyst have to do to gain a PM seat?
1st year credit research associate
AUM: ~$200B
Base: $90k
Expected bonus: 50-100%
Hope this helps you find the answer you are looking for.
Thanks! pretty good for a 1st year research position. You must be at a Dodge & Cox or Lord Abbett kinda shop?
Are you considered part of the "investment or portfolio management" team at your firm, or is your research team housed under another umbrella? (I know credit research works closer with traders/PMs than equity research)
When you say associate, does that mean you were an analyst at an investment bank or something similar prior or is this your first year out of college?
Associate is usually the 1st yr out of college for research, sell/buy-side
I'm curious when you say Vanguard & SEI significantly underpay. Do you have an idea of what their all-in comp would be?
significantly might be wrong word choice. take into account that they're both in the philly suburbs area. SEI is more operations focused and they pay fairly in line for those roles and tech roles, but for investment roles they're below average. I'd be surprised if anyone got over over 80-90k top as a 1st year analyst on one of their pm teams. Don't know associate figures.
Vanguard is a passive-investing shop, so shouldn't be surprised that pay is lower here. I don't have any concrete numbers but know from friends who interned there that they underpay, as somewhat of a discount for being the big-baller of the philly area.
Interested in this as well. Wondering what the performance bonuses at Vanguard look like.
gsam analyst/associate bonus?
$8 an hour. 90 hours a week. GS Haircut is real.
Depends on what part of GSAM you're referring to given they've consolidated significantly within traditional AM as well as their principal investments business. FWIW their GSAM credit alts business definitely underpays which I would expect, based on the background they were targeting (traditional IB + lending, with lending juniors typically having lower comp than IB), translates to similar discounts across most roles within GSAM. I know that they definitely underpay within IB for analysts and associates, obviously having unparalleled exit ops as a whole.
let's say the parts of GSAM I'm referring to (i.e.: high yield & bank loan team, global securitized team, insurance fixed income team). I'd assume base is standard whether IB or AM. IB already has a bonus discount. What discount does GSAM have to IB for?
bumpy
just posted this in another thread so reposting..
at larger lev fin asset manager - joining after 1-3 years of banking, progression is $225-300K first three years as associate, then $325-450K as VP, $500-650K as principal, and $700-900K as MD senior analyst. PMs earn 1mm+. This is at a west coast firm so there may be a slight discount vs NY.
Where's the resume drop @
thanks for the color here. these roles are directly part of the investment team right? any idea if the traders on those teams vs the research folks get different pay?
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